# The New York subway system **URL:** \ **Category:** The BBQ Pit\ **Created:** [March 27, 2013, 1:55pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/the-new-york-subway-system/654098 "2013-03-27T13:55:51Z")\ **Posts on this page:** 20\ **Page:** 2
**Author:** ![Crawlspace](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/c/d6d6ee/32.png) [@Crawlspace](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Crawlspace)\ **Post date:** [March 27, 2013, 3:52pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/the-new-york-subway-system/654098/21 "2013-03-27T15:52:36Z")
[For your next trip](http://www.mta.info/nyct/subway/howto_sub.htm). You’ll notice that they mention you can get your very own NYC Subway map for **free**. Of course, that would require a tourist to have the foresight to obtain a map of they city they would like to tour. > [@friedo](#): > > When I hear stuff like this I honestly have to wonder how hard people actually tried. Every platform has a map. Every subway car has two maps. You might actually have to _move_ to find it, but it’s there. > > The NYC subway can be pretty confusing (it’s the most complex subway system in the world and one of the largest) but the idea that it is not well-signed is not grounded in reality. There are signs everywhere, but it takes some time to learn how to read them. Like any large public facility, there is an iconography and lexicon that takes some getting used to, but it’s all very logical and systematic once you learn it. Agree. Just a decade or so ago, when they used the final stop of a line to indicate the direction it was headed rather than indicating the borough to which it was headed (for example calling it the New Lots bound 3 train instead of the Brooklyn bound 3 Train) I would understand the confusion. But the current system is pretty easy to navigate. > [@JRDelirious](#): > > But yes, it can be disorienting and it’s not just riding, it’s also just getting in and out. I know when I have to get off at 34th/Herald Sq. – it has like at least a half dozen possible exits to the street – I consistently end up coming up at least one corner away from where I intended to and facing some other direction. There are signs on the platform and in the station telling you which street you are headed towards and signs above the staircases telling you which corner it empties up to (ex: SW corner of 34th and 6th). It can take a moment to get your bearings at an unfamiliar stop (even for New Yorkers) but the signs are about as clear as possible with as much info as you can hope for. ---
**Author:** ![Hello\_Again](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/h/85e7bf/32.png) [@Hello\_Again](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Hello_Again)\ **Post date:** [March 27, 2013, 3:57pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/the-new-york-subway-system/654098/22 "2013-03-27T15:57:00Z")
Actually, since much of DC metro goes outside the city limits and well into the suburbs, you’d have to include portions of the LIRR, Metronorth, and PATH commuter systems to make a fair comparison between DC & NYC systems. The NYC system is probably close to 10 times larger just in terms of rail. There are enough route-miles in Manhattan alone to comprise 75% of DC’s entire system. And last, there should never be an absorbent surface on public transit. That’s just straight up disgusting. The carpeting in DC metro is beyond vile. ---
**Author:** ![Acsenray](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/acsenray/32/4519_2.png) [@Acsenray](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Acsenray)\ **Post date:** [March 27, 2013, 4:07pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/the-new-york-subway-system/654098/23 "2013-03-27T16:07:43Z")
> [@Zebra](#): > > The DC Metro is just plain creepy. Station design was done in the “dystopian future style” > [@friedo](#): > > Heh, I agree about DC’s stations. How do people _see_ down there? It’s so dark and depressing. But the DC metro works pretty well. I have a lot of complaints about the D.C. Metro system, but the station design is not one of them. They’re clean and spacious, and there’s enough light for whatever you have to do. Stepping down into the New York Subway feels like entering the world of _Taxi Driver_ or something. ---
**Author:** ![Mama\_Zappa](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/m/71e660/32.png) [@Mama\_Zappa](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Mama_Zappa)\ **Post date:** [March 27, 2013, 4:30pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/the-new-york-subway-system/654098/24 "2013-03-27T16:30:30Z")
I admit I didn’t wander all over the stations looking for posted maps, but I did look around for them when waiting on platforms and they were scarce-to-nonexistent. I definitely looked in the cars and maybe they have one on every car, but that wasn’t often at the end of the car I was on. Of course I did have a map in my bag, but didn’t want to be fumbling around and dragging things out of the bag and being completely obvious about it. Ditto the smartphone map (which I had as well). For the most part I knew the line I needed to be on, but there are a number that share the same route for a bit… so if I knew I needed the N train, and an R train came along, it was tough to check to see if that would do instead. I agree, 2.50 per ride is a bargain and you _can_ get nearly anywhere you need to with a bit of a walk. It seems weird to walk several blocks underground though. And some kind of map of the station itself would be helpful. And the conflicting signs - yeesh. Seriously, I had it send me down, then up, then down, then up again. I _think_ I could have just stayed on the same platform and walked, but I don’t know that for sure. ---
**Author:** ![AHunter3](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/ahunter3/32/368_2.png) [@AHunter3](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/AHunter3)\ **Post date:** [March 27, 2013, 4:52pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/the-new-york-subway-system/654098/25 "2013-03-27T16:52:33Z")
I remember arriving in New York in 1984 from a lifetime of living in Albuquerque, Valdosta GA, and significantly smaller towns and villages, never having lived anywhere bigger than Albuquerque. My first reaction to the subway system was “Ooh, how neat, they made it so simple that anyone could find out how to get where they’re going”. The map is very easy to understand. You would maybe rather deal with [this?](http://www.gethoofing.com/wp-content/uploads/2010/07/parismetro.gif) or [this?](http://img216.imageshack.us/img216/8576/gesamtnetzberlinrerbsutui3.gif) ---
**Author:** ![LawMonkey](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/l/d6d6ee/32.png) [@LawMonkey](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/LawMonkey)\ **Post date:** [March 27, 2013, 4:59pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/the-new-york-subway-system/654098/26 "2013-03-27T16:59:55Z")
> [@Mama\_Zappa](#): > > Of course I did have a map in my bag, but didn’t want to be fumbling around and dragging things out of the bag and being completely obvious about it. Ditto the smartphone map (which I had as well). For the most part I knew the line I needed to be on, but there are a number that share the same route for a bit… so if I knew I needed the N train, and an R train came along, it was tough to check to see if that would do instead. You’re one of a bazillion tourists. Check the damn map. No one here cares. We check the maps sometimes too. So long as you don’t stand in the middle of the sidewalk blocking the way while you do it, we’ll be cool. Me, I just want the damn things to be a bit cleaner. And I hope, before I leave this town, to figure out how to get out of Union Square over by the Food Emporium. ---
**Author:** ![NurseCarmen](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/n/5daacb/32.png) [@NurseCarmen](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/NurseCarmen)\ **Post date:** [March 27, 2013, 5:08pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/the-new-york-subway-system/654098/27 "2013-03-27T17:08:11Z")
> [@Jackmannii](#): > > Besides, the NY subway smells great, WHAA? The atmosphere down there is like someone poured urine in a humidifier and ran it full blast. ---
**Author:** ![Acsenray](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/acsenray/32/4519_2.png) [@Acsenray](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Acsenray)\ **Post date:** [March 27, 2013, 5:09pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/the-new-york-subway-system/654098/28 "2013-03-27T17:09:27Z")
> [@AHunter3](#): > > I remember arriving in New York in 1984 from a lifetime of living in Albuquerque, Valdosta GA, and significantly smaller towns and villages, never having lived anywhere bigger than Albuquerque. > > My first reaction to the subway system was “Ooh, how neat, they made it so simple that anyone could find out how to get where they’re going”. The map is very easy to understand. > > You would maybe rather deal with [this?](http://www.gethoofing.com/wp-content/uploads/2010/07/parismetro.gif) or [this?](http://img216.imageshack.us/img216/8576/gesamtnetzberlinrerbsutui3.gif) I found the Paris Metro very easy to use. And it’s a lot cleaner than the New York Subway. ---
**Author:** ![CalMeacham](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/calmeacham/32/35_2.png) [@CalMeacham](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/CalMeacham)\ **Post date:** [March 27, 2013, 5:13pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/the-new-york-subway-system/654098/29 "2013-03-27T17:13:21Z")
> [@](#): > > Only the IND was owned by the city initially; the IRT and BMT were private concerns until they were forced into bankruptcy and acquired by the government in the 1940s. During the Dual Contracts period from 1910-1930 the city gave the IRT and BMT exclusive franchises to expand certain lines, which is why the biggest redundancies are seen in the oldest parts of the system (like lower Manhattan.) They were never completely nindependent – they couldn’t be, with them operating fixed structures in the city. So the city was involved from the beginning, and ctually _built the physical rails for the IRT (and for much of the BMT_. That’s what makes the duplication so absurd – it wasn’t independent entities fighting it out for ridership; it was city-abetted systems that only got built with city help providing redundancy. Easily available ref: [New York City Subway - Wikipedia](http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/New_York_City_Subway) ---
**Author:** ![Amateur\_Barbarian](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/a/59ef9b/32.png) [@Amateur\_Barbarian](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Amateur_Barbarian)\ **Post date:** [March 27, 2013, 5:19pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/the-new-york-subway-system/654098/30 "2013-03-27T17:19:50Z")
All I can say as an urban spelunker is that nothing fascinates me as much as the closed and abandoned stations you can see if you know where to look for them. But yeah, the NYC system is… the NYC system. I still love it. ---
**Author:** ![LavenderBlue](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/l/e95f7d/32.png) [@LavenderBlue](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/LavenderBlue)\ **Post date:** [March 27, 2013, 5:30pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/the-new-york-subway-system/654098/31 "2013-03-27T17:30:18Z")
> [@Acsenray](#): > > I found the Paris Metro very easy to use. And it’s a lot cleaner than the New York Subway. The best part of the Paris metro is they tell you when the trains are coming to the minute. The worst part is they have very few elevators or escalators. When you’re trying to lug around a small child or luggage that makes it to get around. The other problem with the metro is that very few intersect and Paris is sprawling. In Manhattan the difference between the E and the N is often only an avenue or two. In Paris the difference can be miles. ---
**Author:** ![Malthus](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/m/85f322/32.png) [@Malthus](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Malthus)\ **Post date:** [March 27, 2013, 5:49pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/the-new-york-subway-system/654098/32 "2013-03-27T17:49:05Z")
> [@NitroPress](#): > > All I can say as an urban spelunker is that nothing fascinates me as much as the closed and abandoned stations you can see if you know where to look for them. > > But yeah, the NYC system is… the NYC system. I still love it. My favorite story along those lines: > **[Alfred Ely Beach](https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Alfred_Ely_Beach)** > > Alfred Ely Beach (September 1, 1826 – January 1, 1896) was an American inventor, entrepreneur, publisher, and patent lawyer, born in Springfield, Massachusetts. He is known for his design of the earliest predecessor to the New York City Subway, the Beach Pneumatic Transit, which became the first subway in America. He was an early owner and cofounder of Scientific American and Munn & Co., the country's leading patent agency, and helped secure patents for Thomas Edison, Alexander Graham Bell, Co Klaatu did a song about him: https://www.youtube.com/embed/tiRUOzJ-FrE?feature=oembed&wmode=opaque 😃 ---
**Author:** ![The\_Other\_Jeffrey\_Lebowski](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/the_other_jeffrey_lebowski/32/215_2.png) [@The\_Other\_Jeffrey\_Lebowski](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/The_Other_Jeffrey_Lebowski)\ **Post date:** [March 27, 2013, 6:00pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/the-new-york-subway-system/654098/33 "2013-03-27T18:00:13Z")
No offense, but this pitting is very weak sauce. I haven’t lived in the city in 11 years, but I can’t for the life of me imagine a platform _without_ a map. Plus you had a map on you? How about not burying it your purse, maybe keeping it in a more accessible place? Heres a hint: before you go into the subway station, you check where you want to go on the map, then re-fold the map so that when you take it out of your back pocket, you don’t have to unfold the map at all. ---
**Author:** ![BlankSlate](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/blankslate/32/80_2.png) [@BlankSlate](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/BlankSlate)\ **Post date:** [March 27, 2013, 6:56pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/the-new-york-subway-system/654098/34 "2013-03-27T18:56:21Z")
Metrocards were a definite upgrade from tokens, but sometimes I miss just looking at the coins in my pocket and thinking “oh, I have seven rides”. Sitting at home, you can stare at a metrocard all day and it isn’t going to tell you how much cash is on it, or how many days you have left if it is a weekly/monthly. It’s true that most New Yorkers are helpful and friendly. I get asked for directions, above ground and under, several times a week. Funny thing is, a lot of times it’s the tourists who are dicks. Occasionally I’ll give directions only to see them walk off in silence or complain about the system. ---
**Author:** ![hogarth](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/hogarth/32/1773_2.png) [@hogarth](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/hogarth)\ **Post date:** [March 27, 2013, 7:52pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/the-new-york-subway-system/654098/35 "2013-03-27T19:52:02Z")
My NYC subway complaint: In the Toronto subway, there’s always a connection between the northbound platform and the southbound platform (assuming you’re on a north-south line, say). So you missed your stop? Just get off at the next stop, cross to the other platform and ride one stop back. Likewise if you got confused and went to the wrong platform to begin with. Not so in NYC: only certain stations allow you to move from the northbound platform to the southbound (and vice versa). That definitely wasn’t clear to me on my first visit to New York! On the other hand, the Toronto subway is the worst I’ve ever seen in terms of unexpected delays (passenger emergencies, fire investigations, “power off situations”, etc.), but that’s probably because it’s the one I’m most familiar with by far. ---
**Author:** ![friedo](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/f/8edcca/32.png) [@friedo](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/friedo)\ **Post date:** [March 27, 2013, 8:10pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/the-new-york-subway-system/654098/36 "2013-03-27T20:10:38Z")
> [@hogarth](#): > > Not so in NYC: only certain stations allow you to move from the northbound platform to the southbound (and vice versa). That definitely wasn’t clear to me on my first visit to New York! Yes, that is sucky. A good rule of thumb is to only attempt that maneuver at express stops. ---
**Author:** ![pseudotriton\_ruber\_ruber](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/p/a9a28c/32.png) [@pseudotriton\_ruber\_ruber](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/pseudotriton_ruber_ruber)\ **Post date:** [March 27, 2013, 8:24pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/the-new-york-subway-system/654098/37 "2013-03-27T20:24:22Z")
> [@hogarth](#): > > My NYC subway complaint: > > In the Toronto subway, there’s always a connection between the northbound platform and the southbound platform (assuming you’re on a north-south line, say). So you missed your stop? Just get off at the next stop, cross to the other platform and ride one stop back. Likewise if you got confused and went to the wrong platform to begin with. > > Not so in NYC: only certain stations allow you to move from the northbound platform to the southbound (and vice versa). That definitely wasn’t clear to me on my first visit to New York! > > On the other hand, the Toronto subway is the worst I’ve ever seen in terms of unexpected delays (passenger emergencies, fire investigations, “power off situations”, etc.), but that’s probably because it’s the one I’m most familiar with by far. Also if you have a Metrocard that’s good for a period (7-day, 30-day etc.) you can just exit the system and re-enter on the other side. ---
**Author:** ![Kimballkid](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/k/b5a626/32.png) [@Kimballkid](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Kimballkid)\ **Post date:** [March 27, 2013, 9:09pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/the-new-york-subway-system/654098/38 "2013-03-27T21:09:43Z")
> [@The\_Other\_Jeffrey\_Lebowski](#): > > No offense, but this pitting is very weak sauce. I haven’t lived in the city in 11 years, but I can’t for the life of me imagine a platform _without_ a map. Plus you had a map on you? How about not burying it your purse, maybe keeping it in a more accessible place? Heres a hint: before you go into the subway station, you check where you want to go on the map, then re-fold the map so that when you take it out of your back pocket, you don’t have to unfold the map at all. That’s kind of what I was thinking. If you are going somewhere where you need to use a map, use the damn thing!! Don’t bury it someplace where it’s not easily accessible. ---
**Author:** ![Hershele\_Ostropoler](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/h/e47c2d/32.png) [@Hershele\_Ostropoler](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Hershele_Ostropoler)\ **Post date:** [March 28, 2013, 12:04am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/the-new-york-subway-system/654098/39 "2013-03-28T00:04:11Z")
> [@LawMonkey](#): > > > [@Mama\_Zappa](#): > > > > Of course I did have a map in my bag, but didn’t want to be fumbling around and dragging things out of the bag and being completely obvious about it. Ditto the smartphone map (which I had as well). For the most part I knew the line I needed to be on, but there are a number that share the same route for a bit… so if I knew I needed the N train, and an R train came along, it was tough to check to see if that would do instead. > > You’re one of a bazillion tourists. Check the damn map. No one here cares. We check the maps sometimes too. So long as you don’t stand in the middle of the sidewalk blocking the way while you do it, we’ll be cool. If I’m on an unfamiliar line (including lines that used to be familiar but no longer are) I’ll look at the map without shame. > [@LawMonkey](#): > > And I hope, before I leave this town, to figure out how to get out of Union Square over by the Food Emporium. It’s the stairs by the police station, I think; Fourth Ave and 14th Street, NE corner. > [@BlankSlate](#): > > It’s true that most New Yorkers are helpful and friendly. I get asked for directions, above ground and under, several times a week. Funny thing is, a lot of times it’s the tourists who are dicks. Occasionally I’ll give directions only to see them walk off in silence or complain about the system. My girlfriend and I have the theory that they’re trying to blend in, but they’re trying to blend in with movie!New York. Or, similarly, someone told them “get out there first with rudeness and people will know they can’t fuck with you.” ---
**Author:** ![doreen](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/d/858c86/32.png) [@doreen](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/doreen)\ **Post date:** [March 28, 2013, 12:19am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/the-new-york-subway-system/654098/40 "2013-03-28T00:19:55Z")
> [@Mama\_Zappa](#): > > And the conflicting signs - yeesh. Seriously, I had it send me down, then up, then down, then up again. I _think_ I could have just stayed on the same platform and walked, but I don’t know that for sure. Nope, if it sent you down and then up again, you could not have stayed on the same level. And IIRC ,it was probably Canal St, which was originally four different stations on different levels which don’t all connect directly to each other. [Previous page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/the-new-york-subway-system/654098.md?page=1) [Next page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/the-new-york-subway-system/654098.md?page=3)