# The New York subway system **URL:** \ **Category:** The BBQ Pit\ **Created:** [March 27, 2013, 1:55pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/the-new-york-subway-system/654098 "2013-03-27T13:55:51Z")\ **Posts on this page:** 20\ **Page:** 3
**Author:** ![Capt\_Kirk](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/c/779978/32.png) [@Capt\_Kirk](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Capt_Kirk)\ **Post date:** [March 28, 2013, 12:42am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/the-new-york-subway-system/654098/41 "2013-03-28T00:42:59Z")
I have to agree that most of the OP’s pit is weak sauce. In the dozen or so times I have been to NYC, I found the system to be easy and reliable. Yeah I get out on the wrong exit and have to walk a block or two and the system would suck if I was disabled but I am from Houston,TX and Mass Transit here means a church bus\*. Others have said it but I will repeat, ask one person how to get somewhere or look at a map for ten seconds and you will have many denizens happy to help, often with wildly divergent answers. **Capt** \*I kid but only a bit, we have a bus system that is difficult and confusing, it seems to be designed around the idea that people who rely on it should just stay at work and never go home and see their family. Our light rail is still a joke but is expanding and one day may be useful, possibly in 2200 or so. ---
**Author:** ![BigAppleBucky](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/bigapplebucky/32/178_2.png) [@BigAppleBucky](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/BigAppleBucky)\ **Post date:** [March 28, 2013, 12:44am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/the-new-york-subway-system/654098/42 "2013-03-28T00:44:16Z")
> [@AHunter3](#): > > I remember arriving in New York in 1984 from a lifetime of living in Albuquerque, Valdosta GA, and significantly smaller towns and villages, never having lived anywhere bigger than Albuquerque. > > My first reaction to the subway system was “Ooh, how neat, they made it so simple that anyone could find out how to get where they’re going”. The map is very easy to understand. > > You would maybe rather deal with [this?](http://www.gethoofing.com/wp-content/uploads/2010/07/parismetro.gif) or [this?](http://img216.imageshack.us/img216/8576/gesamtnetzberlinrerbsutui3.gif) The German and French maps remind me of the old (pre-1979) NYC subway map. They’re probably more to scale than the current map but not nearly as easy to understand. Maybe drawn by engineers. When I worked in NYC (until mid 2009) I used to carry a subway map in my briefcase. Whenever a tourist asked me for subway directions I’d offer them a map. (Which I’d get replaced for free over the next few days.) I must admit the instructions for getting between the Flushing (#7) and Lexington Avenue (4-5-6) lines at Grand Central are a bit confusing. There are similar spots around the city in some of the larger stations with multiple lines, especially Fulton Street. There is always a map in the middle of the platform and often maps at either end as well as the maps on the cars. Maps do seem somewhat hit and miss outside the turnstiles. The smell is unique and all I can say is that one gets used to it. Probably like living on a farm with livestock or near a paper mill. It certainly is not clean. During long waits at night or weekends, I often saw rats scuttling along the tracks. Many of the newer cars have electronic maps which follow the train’s progress. The announcements can be hugely frustrating. You know something is happening, but all too often its’s just below the threshold of comprehensibility. Given all the Spanish speaking New Yorkers, I think it’s a shame the signs and announcements are mostly not available in that language. Tokyo accommodates English speakers, for heaven’s sake. The system is over 100 years old. Retrofitting elevators, etc., is a huge job. Riding the subways on Sundays is hugely frustrating with the long waits between trains. I’ve been told (no cite) that over half the commuters in the USA are in the NYC metro region. Overall the system is pretty darned good, but there are many areas that could and should be improved. ---
**Author:** ![BigAppleBucky](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/bigapplebucky/32/178_2.png) [@BigAppleBucky](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/BigAppleBucky)\ **Post date:** [March 28, 2013, 12:53am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/the-new-york-subway-system/654098/43 "2013-03-28T00:53:17Z")
> [@Mama\_Zappa](#): > > … so if I knew I needed the N train, and an R train came along, it was tough to check to see if that would do instead. . . Oh the N and R lines. Any New Yorker would tell you to avoid the BMT if at all possible. ---
**Author:** ![friedo](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/f/8edcca/32.png) [@friedo](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/friedo)\ **Post date:** [March 28, 2013, 12:55am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/the-new-york-subway-system/654098/44 "2013-03-28T00:55:12Z")
> [@BigAppleBucky](#): > > I’ve been told (no cite) that over half the commuters in the USA are in the NYC metro region. Overall the system is pretty darned good, but there are many areas that could and should be improved. I believe it. Metro-North is the largest commuter railroad on the continent by number of passengers, and LIRR is right behind it. Add in the NYC Subway and PATH, and throw in SIRT just for shits and giggles, and it’s quite a lot of people moving about. ---
**Author:** ![The\_Other\_Jeffrey\_Lebowski](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/the_other_jeffrey_lebowski/32/215_2.png) [@The\_Other\_Jeffrey\_Lebowski](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/The_Other_Jeffrey_Lebowski)\ **Post date:** [March 28, 2013, 1:26am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/the-new-york-subway-system/654098/45 "2013-03-28T01:26:15Z")
Don’t forget about NJ Transit. I’d be willing to bet that it’s in the top 10 in ridership. They have a terminus at Penn Station, and Hoboken terminal connects PATH trains with a bunch of commuter lines. ---
**Author:** ![Hello\_Again](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/h/85e7bf/32.png) [@Hello\_Again](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Hello_Again)\ **Post date:** [March 28, 2013, 1:49am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/the-new-york-subway-system/654098/46 "2013-03-28T01:49:49Z")
> [@Lawmonkey](#): > > And I hope, before I leave this town, to figure out how to get out of Union Square over by the Food Emporium. You have to be at the back of the train. Walk up the first set of stairs. The correct exit is to the right and there are escalators on the other side of the turnstile - that’s how you know you’re in the right spot. Heh. That used to be my exit in high school. ---
**Author:** ![friedo](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/f/8edcca/32.png) [@friedo](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/friedo)\ **Post date:** [March 28, 2013, 1:54am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/the-new-york-subway-system/654098/47 "2013-03-28T01:54:53Z")
> [@The\_Other\_Jeffrey\_Lebowski](#): > > Don’t forget about NJ Transit. I’d rather forget about it, thanks. ---
**Author:** ![Saintly\_Loser](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/saintly_loser/32/4045_2.png) [@Saintly\_Loser](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Saintly_Loser)\ **Post date:** [March 28, 2013, 1:58am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/the-new-york-subway-system/654098/48 "2013-03-28T01:58:50Z")
> [@Jackmannii](#): > > There were also ancient EE trains on the BMT that had fiber seats and low-wattage light bulbs for illumination. It was like going back in time to 1900. Oh, man, I remember those (except I thought they were on the IND?). Fiber seats, no air conditioning, ceiling fans. Like [this](http://www.nycsubway.org/perl/show?126699)? ---
**Author:** ![Saintly\_Loser](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/saintly_loser/32/4045_2.png) [@Saintly\_Loser](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Saintly_Loser)\ **Post date:** [March 28, 2013, 2:05am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/the-new-york-subway-system/654098/49 "2013-03-28T02:05:58Z")
> [@BigAppleBucky](#): > > Oh the N and R lines. Any New Yorker would tell you to avoid the BMT if at all possible. Yeah, the **N** ever and the **R** arely. Also their close cousin, the **W** henever. ---
**Author:** ![Saintly\_Loser](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/saintly_loser/32/4045_2.png) [@Saintly\_Loser](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Saintly_Loser)\ **Post date:** [March 28, 2013, 2:07am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/the-new-york-subway-system/654098/50 "2013-03-28T02:07:06Z")
> [@Hello\_Again](#): > > You have to be at the back of the train. Walk up the first set of stairs. The correct exit is to the right and there are escalators on the other side of the turnstile - that’s how you know you’re in the right spot. > > Heh. That used to be my exit in high school. Washington Irving? ---
**Author:** ![Hello\_Again](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/h/85e7bf/32.png) [@Hello\_Again](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Hello_Again)\ **Post date:** [March 28, 2013, 2:20am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/the-new-york-subway-system/654098/51 "2013-03-28T02:20:33Z")
> [@Saintly\_Loser](#): > > Washington Irving? Stuyesant in the old building. My grandfather (an upholsterer) had a contract to make those woven mat seats for the MTA. Since everyone hated them, my dad kept it a secret. LOL. ---
**Author:** ![Voyager](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/voyager/32/133_2.png) [@Voyager](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Voyager)\ **Post date:** [March 28, 2013, 7:06am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/the-new-york-subway-system/654098/52 "2013-03-28T07:06:43Z")
BTW, I have an old subway map hanging in my living room in California. You’re welcome to stop by to study it. 🙂 I grew up on the subways, and rode them many times a day my summer as a messenger. I’ve ridden subways in Boston, Chicago, Washington, San Francisco, Montreal, London, Paris, Madrid, Copenhagen, Athens, Berlin and Tokyo - and they are all simple to figure out once you’re experienced with the NY ones. Some stations make you go up and down - but some stations are bigger than the entire subway systems of some cities. I’ve never been misled by the signage, though sometimes you wonder if you’ll ever get there. BART is pretty clean, and they tell you when the trains are coming, but it is expensive and doesn’t go anywhere near a lot of places you want to get to. ---
**Author:** ![drew870mitchell](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/drew870mitchell/32/3946_2.png) [@drew870mitchell](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/drew870mitchell)\ **Post date:** [March 28, 2013, 8:17am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/the-new-york-subway-system/654098/53 "2013-03-28T08:17:40Z")
> [@NurseCarmen](#): > > WHAA? The atmosphere down there is like someone poured urine in a humidifier and ran it full blast. When you say “down there,” you mean from about the 5th or 6th floor of any building on down, right? 😛 > [@Hershele\_Ostropoler](#): > > My girlfriend and I have the theory that they’re trying to blend in, but they’re trying to blend in with movie!New York. Or, similarly, someone told them “get out there first with rudeness and people will know they can’t fuck with you.” Multiple people explicitly warned me to watch my back, show no signs of carrying any money, and to never make eye contact with anyone. Place ended up being great. I have no idea if the statistics would bear this out but I felt safer in NYC than DC, Atlanta, Memphis, Nashville, Houston, Oklahoma City, Little Rock, San Francisco, … ---
**Author:** ![Hello\_Again](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/h/85e7bf/32.png) [@Hello\_Again](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Hello_Again)\ **Post date:** [March 28, 2013, 1:56pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/the-new-york-subway-system/654098/54 "2013-03-28T13:56:06Z")
> [@drew870mitchell](#): > > Place ended up being great. I have no idea if the statistics would bear this out but I felt safer in NYC than DC, Atlanta, Memphis, Nashville, Houston, Oklahoma City, Little Rock, San Francisco, … They do. NYC is actually extremely safe, to where its one of the safest large cities in America. It’s violent crime rate is lower than all those cities you listed. BTW, Memphis is on par with such notable shitholes as St. Louis, Flint, and Oakland, in terms of violent crime, and Atlanta is right behind it. NYC has less violent crime per capita than Columbus, OH and Wichita, KS. (FBI 2011 data) ---
**Author:** ![Mama\_Zappa](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/m/71e660/32.png) [@Mama\_Zappa](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Mama_Zappa)\ **Post date:** [March 28, 2013, 2:20pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/the-new-york-subway-system/654098/55 "2013-03-28T14:20:29Z")
> [@Hello\_Again](#): > > They do. NYC is actually extremely safe, to where its one of the safest large cities in America. It’s violent crime rate is lower than all those cities you listed. BTW, Memphis is on par with such notable shitholes as St. Louis, Flint, and Oakland, in terms of violent crime, and Atlanta is right behind it. NYC has less violent crime per capita than Columbus, OH and Wichita, KS. (FBI 2011 data) I would concur, safety-wise. While doubtless there are areas where walking around means you’re a target for violent crimes, I never went looking for them. A little common sense will let you avoid most risks even of things like pickpockets (like when we were in the Times Square area, we wore our purses cross-body with the purse in front). To my mind, risks of real danger are on not-quite-deserted streets. The crowded ones, a mugger isn’t likely to risk anything violent. On a completely deserted one, well, there’s no mugger :). We certainly had no hesitation walking over to the Empire State Building at 11 PM or back after midnight. ---
**Author:** ![Siam\_Sam](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/s/d78d45/32.png) [@Siam\_Sam](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Siam_Sam)\ **Post date:** [March 28, 2013, 3:52pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/the-new-york-subway-system/654098/56 "2013-03-28T15:52:52Z")
I have to say the wife and I loved the NYC subway system when we rode it last year. We never had any problems riding it over a period of eight or nine days. ---
**Author:** ![Malthus](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/m/85f322/32.png) [@Malthus](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Malthus)\ **Post date:** [March 28, 2013, 4:01pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/the-new-york-subway-system/654098/57 "2013-03-28T16:01:22Z")
I thorougly enjoy New York - my wife and I have touristed about a few times in that city. Though we have never really explored outside of Manhattan. The subway was fine, though in places it really showed its age. That stuff about NY being a crime-ridden hell-hole is I think a function of the 1970s. I remember a Mad Magazine article from my mis-spent youth in which the joke was someone decided to walk in Central Park and was immediately set upon by 20 muggers. The “funny” was that no-one in their right mind would walk in Central Park without a bodyguard of cops. Whether there was any truth to this in the 1970s, it certainly is complete bullshit now. ---
**Author:** ![Deser2](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/d/dfb087/32.png) [@Deser2](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Deser2)\ **Post date:** [March 28, 2013, 5:24pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/the-new-york-subway-system/654098/58 "2013-03-28T17:24:46Z")
While I’m not old enough to have lived through NYC in the 70s and early 80s, it absolutely was as bad as they say/said. Beginning late 80s/early 90s they went crazy trying to clean up the city (both crime and appearance-wise) and they’ve done a pretty good job of it. The first step was kicking out all the XXX Shops and Strip Clubs from Times Square and completely disney-fying it. Then Guiliani came in and attacked “quality of life crimes” - smoking weed on the street, graffiti (the bastard), etc. Now, there are really only a handful of neighborhoods you wouldn’t want to walk through after dark - and most of those (if not all) are outside Manhattan. South Bronx is still a little rough in areas. Washington Heights can be a little shady after dark. East New York (which is in Brooklyn) is still very dangerous. But as for Manhattan, even places like Harlem which used to be incredibly crime laden, have experienced huge economic booms and are now a lot safer. At 120lbs, and 5’7’’ I have no problems walking anywhere in the city. I don’t even get that feeling of discomfort walking alone late at night through historically “rougher” neighborhoods. ---
**Author:** ![hogarth](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/hogarth/32/1773_2.png) [@hogarth](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/hogarth)\ **Post date:** [March 28, 2013, 5:48pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/the-new-york-subway-system/654098/59 "2013-03-28T17:48:33Z")
> [@Siam\_Sam](#): > > I have to say the wife and I loved the NYC subway system when we rode it last year. We never had any problems riding it over a period of eight or nine days. If you never had a stank-ass bum sitting next to you, you didn’t get the real NY experience. I may gripe a lot about the Toronto subway, but at least our bums smell less worse! And we don’t get panhandlers on the subway train; they just hang around the station. ---
**Author:** ![Malthus](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/m/85f322/32.png) [@Malthus](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Malthus)\ **Post date:** [March 28, 2013, 6:04pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/the-new-york-subway-system/654098/60 "2013-03-28T18:04:46Z")
> [@Deser2](#): > > While I’m not old enough to have lived through NYC in the 70s and early 80s, it absolutely was as bad as they say/said. Beginning late 80s/early 90s they went crazy trying to clean up the city (both crime and appearance-wise) and they’ve done a pretty good job of it. The first step was kicking out all the XXX Shops and Strip Clubs from Times Square and completely disney-fying it. > > Then Guiliani came in and attacked “quality of life crimes” - smoking weed on the street, graffiti (the bastard), etc. > > Now, there are really only a handful of neighborhoods you wouldn’t want to walk through after dark - and most of those (if not all) are outside Manhattan. South Bronx is still a little rough in areas. Washington Heights can be a little shady after dark. East New York (which is in Brooklyn) is still very dangerous. But as for Manhattan, even places like Harlem which used to be incredibly crime laden, have experienced huge economic booms and are now a lot safer. > > At 120lbs, and 5’7’’ I have no problems walking anywhere in the city. I don’t even get that feeling of discomfort walking alone late at night through historically “rougher” neighborhoods. Yeah, I get the impression that the 70s were pretty bad, though I qualify that by saying I have no actual experience of it. But I readily agree that, as a tourist at least, I can walk around Manhattan without feeling fear today - including walking through Central Park. [Previous page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/the-new-york-subway-system/654098.md?page=2) [Next page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/the-new-york-subway-system/654098.md?page=4)