# The Newsroom is coming back (for more punishment?) **URL:** \ **Category:** Cafe Society\ **Created:** [July 10, 2013, 8:13pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/the-newsroom-is-coming-back-for-more-punishment/663171 "2013-07-10T20:13:53Z")\ **Posts on this page:** 20\ **Page:** 12
**Author:** ![commasense](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/commasense/32/3017_2.png) [@commasense](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/commasense)\ **Post date:** [August 30, 2013, 8:33pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/the-newsroom-is-coming-back-for-more-punishment/663171/221 "2013-08-30T20:33:02Z")
> [@Joey\_P](#): > > That was the fake raw footage, meant for when someone wanted to go back and look at it. The actual raw footage would have included him saying “IF we had used chemical weapons” (or whatever the exact wording was). If Mac and Will and, well, anyone saw that, the whole interview would have been tossed. > > We were supposed to say “Wow, he’s so clever, he’s really covering all his tracks here”, and if it wasn’t for the shot clock (and the game in general) in theory, he would have gotten away with it. I don’t think I understand what you’re saying. If you are saying that the outlining I show in my first picture was him “getting rid of the background to make it presentable” for the finished show, you are mistaken. It’s in the sequence where he’s creating the fake “raw” footage. ---
**Author:** ![Bryan\_Ekers](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/bryan_ekers/32/183_2.png) [@Bryan\_Ekers](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Bryan_Ekers)\ **Post date:** [August 31, 2013, 3:34am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/the-newsroom-is-coming-back-for-more-punishment/663171/222 "2013-08-31T03:34:27Z")
I don’t get why the video has to be altered at all. Just mute the word “If”, and since his face is blacked out, nobody can see his lip movements anyway. ---
**Author:** ![Joey\_P](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/j/919ad9/32.png) [@Joey\_P](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Joey_P)\ **Post date:** [August 31, 2013, 4:10am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/the-newsroom-is-coming-back-for-more-punishment/663171/223 "2013-08-31T04:10:05Z")
> [@Bryan\_Ekers](#): > > I don’t get why the video has to be altered at all. Just mute the word “If”, and since his face is blacked out, nobody can see his lip movements anyway. The raw video would still show him saying “_If_” and Mac/Charlie/Will would have tossed out the interview or at least given it less importance and made them spend months chasing down a better witness, but probably just make them scrap the who thing at that point and since it was Jerry’s pet project for the better part of a year, he didn’t want to see that happen. ---
**Author:** ![Cayuga](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/c/3e96dc/32.png) [@Cayuga](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Cayuga)\ **Post date:** [September 4, 2013, 1:10am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/the-newsroom-is-coming-back-for-more-punishment/663171/224 "2013-09-04T01:10:18Z")
> [@Bryan\_Ekers](#): > > Anyway, I don’t recall anyone trying to visit the village to gets fact on site. For a story of this magnitude, that seems like a pretty minimal investment. > [@EllisDee](#): > > As pointed out several times in the thread so far, the Newsroom puts boots on the ground for EVERY story, no matter how remote (Africa) or how thin the story is (OWS) > [@MaxTheVool](#): > > And, of course, why was Newsnight not able to hire some local person to go visit the village and take a bunch of pictures and interview a bunch of people? It was the very first thing they considered. Mac said the area was too dangerous to send ACN people into. Don (IIRC) suggested a fixer, but Mac said it was too dangerous even for that. ---
**Author:** ![Cayuga](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/c/3e96dc/32.png) [@Cayuga](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Cayuga)\ **Post date:** [September 4, 2013, 1:29am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/the-newsroom-is-coming-back-for-more-punishment/663171/225 "2013-09-04T01:29:45Z")
So let me see if I’ve got this straight: 1. Dantana’s military expert tips him to Genoa, saying (falsely) that sarin was involved, because … he’s a dick, I guess. 2. Some guy in the village at the time of the raid tweeted that US helicopters were using gas on civilians, because … he saw the white phosphorus they were using to mark the landing site and thought it was gas. 3. Some guy at an NGO in Pakistan writes a report in which he says he heard rumors that a US expedition used sarin, because … OK, maybe he did hear rumors. But they were false. 4. Charlie’s old friend and longtime source feeds him a false document, because … he blames Charlie for his son’s suicide several years earlier. 5. Sweeney says he asked a member of the flight crew what they had dumped on the civilians and the crew member told him it was sarin, because … Sweeney’s traumatic brain injury gave him amnesia. I’m not seeing this one at all. 6. Valenzuela turns out to not be dead, and confirms Sweeney’s story, because … he doesn’t want Sweeney to be alone on this one. WTF? 7. Gen. Stomtonovich never says sarin was used, but Dantana edits the footage to make it seem he said it, because … he wants to nail the Obama administration for something, anything. The only ones I’m coming close to buying are 2, 3, and 7. I loved this all while I was watching it unfold, but in retrospect, it’s really thin. ---
**Author:** ![commasense](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/commasense/32/3017_2.png) [@commasense](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/commasense)\ **Post date:** [September 4, 2013, 2:24am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/the-newsroom-is-coming-back-for-more-punishment/663171/226 "2013-09-04T02:24:15Z")
My wife and I have been watching _The West Wing_ on DVD over the past week or so, and have just finished the first season. (We have also watched several episodes of _Sports Night_ recently.) We are struck by the differences between _The Newsroom_ and those other shows. Unlike the earlier ones, there’s almost no one in _The Newsroom_ we really like or care about. Characters in WW were flawed and sometimes annoying, but they were likeable. When Josh Lyman or Sam Seaborn or C.J. Cregg seemed about to begin a new romantic relationship, I was interested and wanted to see how it would turn out. And I followed the ups and downs of the Bartlet administration with interest. I \*cared \*about it and these people. I could say the same about _Sports Night_. And in both shows, even when they were dealing with serious subjects, there was witty and sometimes outright funny dialog and situations. The shows were entertaining, and I almost never said, “Hey, that wouldn’t really happen!” The people in _The Newsroom_ just aren’t very interesting. I don’t give a damn whether Maggie sleeps with Jim or Don. I realize that I’m supposed to like Jim and be rooting for him to get Maggie, eventually, and I kind of like him, but I don’t like her that much at all. I kind of like Sloan, but I don’t like Don, so I don’t want to see them together. There is a touch of the old Sorkin banter throughout the show, but watching _The West Wing_ has just brought back how much better Sorkin can be than _The Newsroom_. So why am I watching? I ask myself that almost every week. The main reason is that there’s not much else on Sunday nights. ---
**Author:** ![ThelmaLou](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/thelmalou/32/390_2.png) [@ThelmaLou](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/ThelmaLou)\ **Post date:** [September 4, 2013, 4:20am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/the-newsroom-is-coming-back-for-more-punishment/663171/227 "2013-09-04T04:20:54Z")
> [@commasense](#): > > My wife and I have been watching _The West Wing_ on DVD over the past week or so, and have just finished the first season. (We have also watched several episodes of _Sports Night_ recently.) > > We are struck by the differences between _The Newsroom_ and those other shows. Unlike the earlier ones, there’s almost no one in _The Newsroom_ we really like or care about. Characters in WW were flawed and sometimes annoying, but they were likeable. When Josh Lyman or Sam Seaborn or C.J. Cregg seemed about to begin a new romantic relationship, I was interested and wanted to see how it would turn out. And I followed the ups and downs of the Bartlet administration with interest. I \*cared \*about it and these people. > > I could say the same about _Sports Night_. > > And in both shows, even when they were dealing with serious subjects, there was witty and sometimes outright funny dialog and situations. The shows were entertaining, and I almost never said, “Hey, that wouldn’t really happen!” > > The people in _The Newsroom_ just aren’t very interesting. I don’t give a damn whether Maggie sleeps with Jim or Don. I realize that I’m supposed to like Jim and be rooting for him to get Maggie, eventually, and I kind of like him, but I don’t like her that much at all. I kind of like Sloan, but I don’t like Don, so I don’t want to see them together. > > There is a touch of the old Sorkin banter throughout the show, but watching _The West Wing_ has just brought back how much better Sorkin can be than _The Newsroom_. > > So why am I watching? I ask myself that almost every week. The main reason is that there’s not much else on Sunday nights. You have articulated exactly why I bailed on the series even though I’m the OP of this thread. ---
**Author:** ![Omniscient](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/omniscient/32/3290_2.png) [@Omniscient](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Omniscient)\ **Post date:** [September 4, 2013, 5:33am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/the-newsroom-is-coming-back-for-more-punishment/663171/228 "2013-09-04T05:33:12Z")
I haven’t been tracking the thread all season, but this last page is interesting to me. I am a little surprised at how much dissection is occurring of the Genoa story. This show isn’t the type that I’d really expect plot holes to be ironed out of, that type of dissection would be more appropriate in a crime drama, law room show or sci-fi show. This, like all Sorkin shows, is essentially a character drama and the plot is just a mechanism to move the characters forward. That’s a long winded way of saying that I don’t really care about the flimsiness of the Genoa story, as presented it was believable enough for me. As far as the show goes in general, I’m still enjoying it. It’s better than Sports Night or Studio 60, but no where near West Wing. So be it, I still enjoy the Sorkin-ness of the dialogue and characters. Waterson, Munn and Daniels are good enough to carry the rest of the cast from a likability standpoint. Even with some of the more contrived aspects of the show it’s still unique for TV and makes for a pretty fast-moving hour of TV every week. ---
**Author:** ![pancakes3](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/p/ba9def/32.png) [@pancakes3](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/pancakes3)\ **Post date:** [September 4, 2013, 2:17pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/the-newsroom-is-coming-back-for-more-punishment/663171/229 "2013-09-04T14:17:16Z")
> [@Bryan\_Ekers](#): > > I don’t get why the video has to be altered at all. Just mute the word “If”, and since his face is blacked out, nobody can see his lip movements anyway. > [@Joey\_P](#): > > The raw video would still show him saying “_If_” and Mac/Charlie/Will would have tossed out the interview or at least given it less importance and made them spend months chasing down a better witness, but probably just make them scrap the who thing at that point and since it was Jerry’s pet project for the better part of a year, he didn’t want to see that happen. Um, I think he would have just submitted the altered “no-if” tape as raw footage like he would have done otherwise. > [@Cayuga](#): > > It was the very first thing they considered. Mac said the area was too dangerous to send ACN people into. Don (IIRC) suggested a fixer, but Mac said it was too dangerous even for that. A flimsy excuse to begin with which gets flimsier as the need for evidence for this story grows as the season went on. > [@Cayuga](#): > > 1. Dantana’s military expert tips him to Genoa, saying (falsely) that sarin was involved, because … he’s a dick, I guess. > > 2. Charlie’s old friend and longtime source feeds him a false document, because … he blames Charlie for his son’s suicide several years earlier. > > 3. Sweeney says he asked a member of the flight crew what they had dumped on the civilians and the crew member told him it was sarin, because … Sweeney’s traumatic brain injury gave him amnesia. I’m not seeing this one at all. > > 4. Valenzuela turns out to not be dead, and confirms Sweeney’s story, because … he doesn’t want Sweeney to be alone on this one. WTF? Aren’t all of these people completely fucked? Like, court martial, super duper fucked? Especially Charlie’s friend? Forget the characters on ACN being forced to resign. Aren’t these guys about to get black bagged off to Guantanamo? And if ACN doesn’t reveal that the tape is doctored, the general is also fucked? ---
**Author:** ![commasense](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/commasense/32/3017_2.png) [@commasense](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/commasense)\ **Post date:** [September 4, 2013, 4:33pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/the-newsroom-is-coming-back-for-more-punishment/663171/230 "2013-09-04T16:33:14Z")
I forgot to add: the theme music for _Sports Night_ and _The West Wing_ (both by W.G. Snuffy Walden) is infinitely better than the _Newsroom_ theme (by Alex Wurman). ---
**Author:** ![Omniscient](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/omniscient/32/3290_2.png) [@Omniscient](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Omniscient)\ **Post date:** [September 4, 2013, 11:13pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/the-newsroom-is-coming-back-for-more-punishment/663171/231 "2013-09-04T23:13:35Z")
> [@commasense](#): > > I forgot to add: the theme music for _Sports Night_ and _The West Wing_ (both by W.G. Snuffy Walden) is infinitely better than the _Newsroom_ theme (by Alex Wurman). The entire opening credits for Newsroom are awful. With a few exceptions this is true of most HBO shows. It’s bizarre frankly. ---
**Author:** ![Cayuga](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/c/3e96dc/32.png) [@Cayuga](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Cayuga)\ **Post date:** [September 5, 2013, 4:31am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/the-newsroom-is-coming-back-for-more-punishment/663171/232 "2013-09-05T04:31:08Z")
> [@pancakes3](#): > > A flimsy excuse to begin with which gets flimsier as the need for evidence for this story grows as the season went on. Convenient? Yes. Flimsy? No. A group of Marines barely got out of there alive, and you want to send a film crew in? Remember, ACN doesn’t have combat helicopters, MOPP suits, or white phosphorus to help get them out again. > [@](#): > > Aren’t all of these people completely fucked? Like, court martial, super duper fucked? I’m not sure that lying to a TV reporter is a court martialable offense. > [@](#): > > Especially Charlie’s friend? I don’t think the CIA — or whichever agency he works for — would care that he gave a fake manifest to a reporter. That’s if they ever found out he did it, which they wouldn’t. ---
**Author:** ![Cayuga](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/c/3e96dc/32.png) [@Cayuga](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Cayuga)\ **Post date:** [September 5, 2013, 4:34am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/the-newsroom-is-coming-back-for-more-punishment/663171/233 "2013-09-05T04:34:23Z")
> [@Omniscient](#): > > The entire opening credits for Newsroom are awful. With a few exceptions this is true of most HBO shows. It’s bizarre frankly. The only other HBO show I watch is _True Blood_, which has the best opening titles sequence in the history of television. But it’s astounding how awful _The Newsroom_’s theme is. I can’t figure out how something so bland and forgettable can inspire such strong negative emotions in me, but it does. ---
**Author:** ![MaxTheVool](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/m/9fc29f/32.png) [@MaxTheVool](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/MaxTheVool)\ **Post date:** [September 5, 2013, 4:54am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/the-newsroom-is-coming-back-for-more-punishment/663171/234 "2013-09-05T04:54:55Z")
A lot of HBO shows do, in fact, have pretty unimpressive credits. The big exception, imho, is **Game of Thrones** , which has truly fantastic credits. ---
**Author:** ![Bryan\_Ekers](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/bryan_ekers/32/183_2.png) [@Bryan\_Ekers](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Bryan_Ekers)\ **Post date:** [September 5, 2013, 4:59am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/the-newsroom-is-coming-back-for-more-punishment/663171/235 "2013-09-05T04:59:49Z")
> [@Cayuga](#): > > A group of Marines barely got out of there alive, and you want to send a film crew in? Remember, ACN doesn’t have combat helicopters, MOPP suits, or white phosphorus to help get them out again. The incident they’re investigating was two years earlier, no? They still can’t get anywhere near the site? ---
**Author:** ![Omniscient](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/omniscient/32/3290_2.png) [@Omniscient](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Omniscient)\ **Post date:** [September 5, 2013, 6:51am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/the-newsroom-is-coming-back-for-more-punishment/663171/236 "2013-09-05T06:51:25Z")
> [@Cayuga](#): > > The only other HBO show I watch is _True Blood_, which has the best opening titles sequence in the history of television. But it’s astounding how awful _The Newsroom_’s theme is. I can’t figure out how something so bland and forgettable can inspire such strong negative emotions in me, but it does. Going to really disagree with you on True Blood. That sucker really grates on me and doesn’t seem to have a lick to do with the show, it’s like some sophomore’s film school submission was randomly bolted onto a show. ---
**Author:** ![EllisDee](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/ellisdee/32/4531_2.png) [@EllisDee](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/EllisDee)\ **Post date:** [September 5, 2013, 8:20am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/the-newsroom-is-coming-back-for-more-punishment/663171/237 "2013-09-05T08:20:59Z")
Sopranos and Game of Thrones had/have iconic intros. Rome, Deadwood, In Treatment, Six Feet Under, John Adams\*, Big Love, Boardwalk Empire, Veep, Hard Knocks/Inside the NFL, and (old school!) Dream On, Kids in the Hall and Tales from the Crypt have/had good or very good intros. John from Cincinnati, Hung, and Newsroom intros are all horrifyingly bad, and I think both Band of Brothers and The Pacific intros were disappointing. Having never watched The Wire, Carnivale, Extras, Flight of the Concorde, Oz, etc… I can’t comment on the rest. Can’t go back over all these themes without dragging out the [original](http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=i1NKoMNy5bY), of course. \*I always felt that the John Adams theme music ripped off the Deadwood theme music. ---
**Author:** ![Cayuga](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/c/3e96dc/32.png) [@Cayuga](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Cayuga)\ **Post date:** [September 5, 2013, 11:39am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/the-newsroom-is-coming-back-for-more-punishment/663171/238 "2013-09-05T11:39:13Z")
> [@EllisDee](#): > > Can’t go back over all these themes without dragging out the [original](http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=i1NKoMNy5bY), of course. I’d forgotten how good that was. Great theme music, and a truly awesome model. ---
**Author:** ![Tangent](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/tangent/32/3098_2.png) [@Tangent](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Tangent)\ **Post date:** [September 5, 2013, 4:39pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/the-newsroom-is-coming-back-for-more-punishment/663171/239 "2013-09-05T16:39:26Z")
> [@EllisDee](#): > > Sopranos and Game of Thrones had/have iconic intros. I would say the \*Dexter \*intro is also pretty iconic. ---
**Author:** ![Bryan\_Ekers](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/bryan_ekers/32/183_2.png) [@Bryan\_Ekers](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Bryan_Ekers)\ **Post date:** [September 5, 2013, 5:11pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/the-newsroom-is-coming-back-for-more-punishment/663171/240 "2013-09-05T17:11:33Z")
> [@EllisDee](#): > > Can’t go back over all these themes without dragging out the [original](http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=i1NKoMNy5bY), of course. Yeesh, did HBO originally stand for Hitchhiker’s Buide to the O-alaxy? [Previous page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/the-newsroom-is-coming-back-for-more-punishment/663171.md?page=11) [Next page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/the-newsroom-is-coming-back-for-more-punishment/663171.md?page=13)