# The Newsroom is coming back (for more punishment?) **URL:** \ **Category:** Cafe Society\ **Created:** [July 10, 2013, 8:13pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/the-newsroom-is-coming-back-for-more-punishment/663171 "2013-07-10T20:13:53Z")\ **Posts on this page:** 20\ **Page:** 9
**Author:** ![voltaire](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/voltaire/32/313_2.png) [@voltaire](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/voltaire)\ **Post date:** [August 23, 2013, 10:24am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/the-newsroom-is-coming-back-for-more-punishment/663171/161 "2013-08-23T10:24:34Z")
> [@5\_time\_champ](#): > > …and Mac choosing Dantana to take Jim’s place unprompted by anyone as far as we know. Actually, it was Jim who prompted Mac to select Dantana as his temporary replacement. > [@](#): > > No, Jerry was seduced by visions of Pulitzers, well I guess cable TV news producers aren’t eligible for Pulitzers; Actually, Peabody. ---
**Author:** ![pancakes3](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/p/ba9def/32.png) [@pancakes3](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/pancakes3)\ **Post date:** [August 23, 2013, 12:03pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/the-newsroom-is-coming-back-for-more-punishment/663171/162 "2013-08-23T12:03:26Z")
> [@Dewey\_Finn](#): > > Perhaps you’re right and this is a setup. **Because it looks like they’ve done a good job of investigating the story.** The big problem, of course, is Jerry Dantana’s deliberate editing of the general’s interview to change the meaning of what he said. Unless Jerry is in on the conspiracy? Is this the general opinion? I disagree. ---
**Author:** ![Bryan\_Ekers](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/bryan_ekers/32/183_2.png) [@Bryan\_Ekers](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Bryan_Ekers)\ **Post date:** [August 23, 2013, 6:25pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/the-newsroom-is-coming-back-for-more-punishment/663171/163 "2013-08-23T18:25:17Z")
I’m not seeing a “good job” of investigating, either. I see we’re _told_ they did a good job, and supposedly a better job than anyone else would have done (i.e. “anyone else would have run the story months ago”), but the contrivances are getting too thick. The general insisting that only Jerry be present, and then he gets coy about describing what happened… what was the point of that except to tease Jerry? It’s like flying to some primitive planet and landing next to some person who nobody’ll believe and walking around with lights on your head making “beep-beep” noises. Anyway, I don’t recall anyone trying to visit the village to gets fact on site. For a story of this magnitude, that seems like a pretty minimal investment. ---
**Author:** ![EllisDee](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/ellisdee/32/4531_2.png) [@EllisDee](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/EllisDee)\ **Post date:** [August 23, 2013, 6:57pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/the-newsroom-is-coming-back-for-more-punishment/663171/164 "2013-08-23T18:57:10Z")
> [@Bryan\_Ekers](#): > > I’m not seeing a “good job” of investigating, either. I see we’re _told_ they did a good job Exactly. This is very Sorkin-esque, at least. I remember various characters in Studio 60 telling me over and over how amazingly funny Sarah Paulson’s character was. Too bad this amazingly funny character was never particularly funny in her scenes. (She acted and sounded exactly like every other character in that show. And every Sorkin show, for that matter.) It was like if Newsroom characters kept rhapsodizing about how funny Maggie is. Similarly, we’re being told over and over how great the reporting, sourcing and fact-checking has been on this story but what we see is an almost comical lack of effort to actually investigate anything. As pointed out several times in the thread so far, the Newsroom puts boots on the ground for EVERY story, no matter how remote (Africa) or how thin the story is (OWS). And yet, what is the sum total of their investigation on the biggest story in American history? They read some tweets, and then sent a temp to go interview a nutty old man. ---
**Author:** ![voltaire](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/voltaire/32/313_2.png) [@voltaire](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/voltaire)\ **Post date:** [August 24, 2013, 12:24am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/the-newsroom-is-coming-back-for-more-punishment/663171/165 "2013-08-24T00:24:02Z")
> [@Bryan\_Ekers](#): > > The general insisting that only Jerry be present, and then he gets coy about describing what happened… what was the point of that except to tease Jerry I don’t think the general was necessarily being coy at all. First of all, he’s a bit nutty, but mainly it seemed possible/likely that the dude \*didn’t really know _if_ they had \*used chemical weapons. He was speaking generally (heh) about how deploying chemical weapons for \*possible \*use during the mission would work logistically. He knew of the mission and it’s purpose, and was eager to help justify nearly “any means necessary” to retrieve POWs, but it seemed pretty likely that he doesn’t really know for sure whether or not chemicals weapons were deployed. ---
**Author:** ![5\_time\_champ](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/5/278dde/32.png) [@5\_time\_champ](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/5_time_champ)\ **Post date:** [August 24, 2013, 1:08am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/the-newsroom-is-coming-back-for-more-punishment/663171/166 "2013-08-24T01:08:31Z")
> [@voltaire](#): > > Actually, it was Jim who prompted Mac to select Dantana as his temporary replacement. > > Actually, Peabody. Oh, yes, you are right Jim did mention Dantana as a temp replacement, I had forgotten. Maybe Jim is in on the conspiracy also. 🙂 ---
**Author:** ![spifflog](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/s/c5a1d2/32.png) [@spifflog](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/spifflog)\ **Post date:** [August 26, 2013, 3:45pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/the-newsroom-is-coming-back-for-more-punishment/663171/167 "2013-08-26T15:45:14Z")
> [@5\_time\_champ](#): > > ISTM, that Newsnight is getting Rathered, elaborately set up by conservatives looking for revenge for Will’s American Taliban comments. ACN President Reese Lansing is probably in on the conspiracy, too. I’d never heard much talk that Rather was set up at all (and if that was the case, than obviously not set up by the right). Did I miss something? (I don’t want to go too far off thread, just curious.) ---
**Author:** ![MaxTheVool](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/m/9fc29f/32.png) [@MaxTheVool](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/MaxTheVool)\ **Post date:** [August 26, 2013, 4:32pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/the-newsroom-is-coming-back-for-more-punishment/663171/168 "2013-08-26T16:32:08Z")
Well… that was definitely the best episode of the season, probably of the whole series. I’m not sure how fully plausible all of those things going wrong at once is, but I guess it’s one of those situations where there were plenty of stories where the system worked and they did get killed, it’s only the one where the system broke down that we got to see an episode about. Although Jane Fonda showing up to save their asses at the end was at least slightly Deus Ex Machina. They also should have at least mentioned the possibility that the Benghazi attacks were a response to the Genoa story being broadcast. Because in their universe, that would be plausible, and something that they, specifically, would be really worried about. ---
**Author:** ![Joey\_P](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/j/919ad9/32.png) [@Joey\_P](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Joey_P)\ **Post date:** [August 26, 2013, 5:34pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/the-newsroom-is-coming-back-for-more-punishment/663171/169 "2013-08-26T17:34:19Z")
> [@MaxTheVool](#): > > Well… that was definitely the best episode of the season, probably of the whole series. I’m not sure how fully plausible all of those things going wrong at once is, but I guess it’s one of those situations where there were plenty of stories where the system worked and they did get killed, it’s only the one where the system broke down that we got to see an episode about. Although Jane Fonda showing up to save their asses at the end was at least slightly Deus Ex Machina. > > They also should have at least mentioned the possibility that the Benghazi attacks were a response to the Genoa story being broadcast. Because in their universe, that would be plausible, and something that they, specifically, would be really worried about. The whole end part, after Jane showed up was terrible, IMO. I mean it was just a stupid situation and poorly written, but not only that, it seemed like a high school play, the acting just sucked. Also, as far as Genoa and I don’t know the story on which it’s based, but I assume it’s (in their world) supposed to have actually happened. The problem is that the raw footage was altered and Jimmy James had a fit. What he wanted was his part to be aired in a “If I Did It, Here’s How It Happened” style. If they left it unedited and put it up like that, they probably would have been okay, but then they would have only have had one witness (the brain injury guy) and only having one confirmation has never been up to their standards. But other then that, yeah, this was probably one of my favorite episodes. Also, why was Sloan interviewing someone, that’s a bit out of her jurisdiction. ---
**Author:** ![bramma23](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/b/977dab/32.png) [@bramma23](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/bramma23)\ **Post date:** [August 26, 2013, 5:40pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/the-newsroom-is-coming-back-for-more-punishment/663171/170 "2013-08-26T17:40:08Z")
Genoa is based on – [Operation Tailwind - Wikipedia](http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Operation_Tailwind) ---
**Author:** ![Chefguy](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/chefguy/32/138_2.png) [@Chefguy](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Chefguy)\ **Post date:** [August 26, 2013, 6:28pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/the-newsroom-is-coming-back-for-more-punishment/663171/171 "2013-08-26T18:28:28Z")
> [@5\_time\_champ](#): > > Re: Maggie’s hair, I think we can safely state that she cut & dyed her hair fairly close to the time of the deposition. Probably after hitting absolute bottom: going home with the wrong, really wrong guy[s]; ending up naked and passed out on Second Avenue; or becoming homeless after Lisa throws her out. She is one homely woman, IMO. The hair ain’t helping. ---
**Author:** ![Flying\_Saucer](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/f/9dc877/32.png) [@Flying\_Saucer](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Flying_Saucer)\ **Post date:** [August 26, 2013, 8:01pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/the-newsroom-is-coming-back-for-more-punishment/663171/172 "2013-08-26T20:01:36Z")
This is a great conversation and I’m learning a lot. I have one question to add: Sweeney was an actual soldier on the actual mission who saw dead bodies that were burned. He asked _someone_ (a fellow soldier, I think, who’s one of the 30 guys “not talking”) in the chopper ride afterwards what caused the bodies to be burned. He was told it was sarin. So…what’s the truth? Sweeney asked the question and his comrade answered “No idea, man,” and Sweeney mis-remebered it because of his TBI? Or someone said “white phosphorous” and Sweeney turned that into “sarin” in his mind? To me, he’s the key to the whole story, not the general and not Valanzuela. He was there and saw dead bodies. So I don’t quite get how _his_ story is invalidated. Did he not see what he saw? Or did white phosphorous do it? Apparently, [that chemical is regulated and shouldn’t be used against civilians](http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/White_phosphorous#Arms_control_status_and_military_regulations), so it seems like ACN still has a (weak) case. And was Valanzuela _such_ a great friend to Sweeney that he would knowingly lie to a news producer just so Sweeney wasn’t “standing alone”? He knew it was a lie and would be court-martialed, right? ---
**Author:** ![MaxTheVool](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/m/9fc29f/32.png) [@MaxTheVool](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/MaxTheVool)\ **Post date:** [August 26, 2013, 8:33pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/the-newsroom-is-coming-back-for-more-punishment/663171/173 "2013-08-26T20:33:56Z")
> [@Flying\_Saucer](#): > > This is a great conversation and I’m learning a lot. I have one question to add: > > Sweeney was an actual soldier on the actual mission who saw dead bodies that were burned. He asked _someone_ (a fellow soldier, I think, who’s one of the 30 guys “not talking”) in the chopper ride afterwards what caused the bodies to be burned. He was told it was sarin. > > So…what’s the truth? Sweeney asked the question and his comrade answered “No idea, man,” and Sweeney mis-remebered it because of his TBI? Or someone said “white phosphorous” and Sweeney turned that into “sarin” in his mind? > > To me, he’s the key to the whole story, not the general and not Valanzuela. He was there and saw dead bodies. So I don’t quite get how _his_ story is invalidated. Did he not see what he saw? Or did white phosphorous do it? Apparently, [that chemical is regulated and shouldn’t be used against civilians](http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/White_phosphorous#Arms_control_status_and_military_regulations), so it seems like ACN still has a (weak) case. > > And was Valanzuela _such_ a great friend to Sweeney that he would knowingly lie to a news producer just so Sweeney wasn’t “standing alone”? He knew it was a lie and would be court-martialed, right? Not to mention what was hamni8 seeing when he was tweeting about gas, etc.? And what did the NGO head about in the first place? And what did that ambitious guest guy who started the whole thing off know? And, of course, why was Newsnight not able to hire some local person to go visit the village and take a bunch of pictures and interview a bunch of people? Definitely still some biiiiiig holes, but still entertaining television. ---
**Author:** ![Sherrerd](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/sherrerd/32/8_2.png) [@Sherrerd](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Sherrerd)\ **Post date:** [August 26, 2013, 8:42pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/the-newsroom-is-coming-back-for-more-punishment/663171/174 "2013-08-26T20:42:03Z")
> [@Joey\_P](#): > > …why was Sloan interviewing someone, that’s a bit out of her jurisdiction. Because Sorkin wanted the on-air talent for this Big Deal Genoa Story to be characters we know, and wanted a female to avoid ‘boys’ club’ accusations, and Sloan is the only on-air-reporter female character in “The Newsroom.” Given that her field has been very clearly established as being the economic/financial sphere, this seemed contrived; it took me out of the story. Also: I agree with MaxTheVool’s point that the characters should have showed some sort of concern that reaction to the Genoa story could have played a role in the Benghazi attacks. I kept expecting at least a phrase or an exchanged look; it didn’t come. That took me out of the story, too. ---
**Author:** ![Bryan\_Ekers](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/bryan_ekers/32/183_2.png) [@Bryan\_Ekers](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Bryan_Ekers)\ **Post date:** [August 26, 2013, 8:50pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/the-newsroom-is-coming-back-for-more-punishment/663171/175 "2013-08-26T20:50:25Z")
So why were they talking to the General if he didn’t have any specific knowledge of Genoa? Shouldn’t the pre-interview have included a question like “Do you have any specific knowledge of Genoa?” ? And if he didn’t, why would he talk to them? He just wanted an anonymous opportunity to defend the potential use of Sarin? Is “he’s senile” going to be the catch-all answer to problems with the General? ---
**Author:** ![Flying\_Saucer](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/f/9dc877/32.png) [@Flying\_Saucer](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Flying_Saucer)\ **Post date:** [August 26, 2013, 8:52pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/the-newsroom-is-coming-back-for-more-punishment/663171/176 "2013-08-26T20:52:13Z")
> [@Sherrerd](#): > > Also: I agree with MaxTheVool’s point that the characters should have showed some sort of concern that reaction to the Genoa story could have played a role in the Benghazi attacks. I kept expecting at least a phrase or an exchanged look; it didn’t come. That took me out of the story, too. I may be mistaken, but I’m pretty sure that it _was_ mentioned, either when everyone was in Will’s office or possibly before that, in the general area, when the facts were coming in fast and furious. I really think someone said “You don’t think this is because of the Genoa story?” There should be transcripts of all these episodes. It didn’t help that my HBO signal was occasionally dropping audio on the most dialogue-heavy show on the air. #NYCproblems ---
**Author:** ![EllisDee](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/ellisdee/32/4531_2.png) [@EllisDee](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/EllisDee)\ **Post date:** [August 26, 2013, 9:35pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/the-newsroom-is-coming-back-for-more-punishment/663171/177 "2013-08-26T21:35:37Z")
One of the better episodes of the whole series, unfortunately it was about 5 minutes too long. That end scene started off bad and got progressively worse, culminating in cringe-worthy awfulness just as credits rolled. ---
**Author:** ![5\_time\_champ](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/5/278dde/32.png) [@5\_time\_champ](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/5_time_champ)\ **Post date:** [August 27, 2013, 3:30am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/the-newsroom-is-coming-back-for-more-punishment/663171/178 "2013-08-27T03:30:45Z")
> [@spifflog](#): > > I’d never heard much talk that Rather was set up at all (and if that was the case, than obviously not set up by the right). Did I miss something? (I don’t want to go too far off thread, just curious.) Here is a link to Wikipedia. [Killian documents controversy - Wikipedia](http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Killian_documents_controversy) Someone produced the 6 memos about First Lt. George W Bush service in the Texas Air National Guard. I don’t think anyone connected to CBS falsified the memos. Although it appears CSB did a poor job of authenticating the memos. Some people think that someone hostile to Dan Rather and CBS News falsified the memos and gave them to CBS. I don’t know who did it. And obviously I was being a little glib when I used the word _rather_ as a verb. ---
**Author:** ![5\_time\_champ](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/5/278dde/32.png) [@5\_time\_champ](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/5_time_champ)\ **Post date:** [August 27, 2013, 3:33am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/the-newsroom-is-coming-back-for-more-punishment/663171/179 "2013-08-27T03:33:34Z")
> [@Chefguy](#): > > She is one homely woman, IMO. The hair ain’t helping. Maggie with the long blonde hair is a doll, Maggie with chopped, dyed hair is not so much. ---
**Author:** ![crucible](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/c/5f8ce5/32.png) [@crucible](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/crucible)\ **Post date:** [August 27, 2013, 3:35am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/the-newsroom-is-coming-back-for-more-punishment/663171/180 "2013-08-27T03:35:06Z")
I love the show. Unequivocally. Smartest, sharpest, most interesting, nighttime soap opera that’s on. But how did Pill go from Red to Blonde in a week? [Previous page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/the-newsroom-is-coming-back-for-more-punishment/663171.md?page=8) [Next page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/the-newsroom-is-coming-back-for-more-punishment/663171.md?page=10)