# The next big automotive scandal? **URL:** \ **Category:** Miscellaneous and Personal Stuff I Must Share\ **Created:** [September 18, 2015, 6:27pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/the-next-big-automotive-scandal/731693 "2015-09-18T18:27:34Z")\ **Posts on this page:** 16\ **Page:** 11
**Author:** ![kayaker](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/kayaker/32/441_2.png) [@kayaker](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/kayaker)\ **Post date:** [November 3, 2015, 12:06pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/the-next-big-automotive-scandal/731693/201 "2015-11-03T12:06:12Z")
> [@jz78817](#): > > **They have found nothing similar while conducting tests of other car companies.** I wonder if other car manufacturers realized they could do it, maybe even joked about doing it, but never seriously persued it due to the consequences. ---
**Author:** ![davidm](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/davidm/32/225_2.png) [@davidm](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/davidm)\ **Post date:** [November 3, 2015, 12:32pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/the-next-big-automotive-scandal/731693/202 "2015-11-03T12:32:22Z")
Was VW in such financial trouble that they decided “damn the potential consequences”? I haven’t followed the financial health of VW. ---
**Author:** ![WordMan](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/w/e8c25b/32.png) [@WordMan](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/WordMan)\ **Post date:** [November 3, 2015, 1:09pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/the-next-big-automotive-scandal/731693/203 "2015-11-03T13:09:36Z")
> [@davidm](#): > > Was VW in such financial trouble that they decided “damn the potential consequences”? I haven’t followed the financial health of VW. I don’t believe so - the opposite; they were overtaking Toyota as the largest automaker. But they were focused on championing diesel and showing it is smart choice as gas engines trend down and electronic cars trend up but aren’t quite ready/cheap enough for mass adoption. ---
**Author:** ![Diceman](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/d/22d042/32.png) [@Diceman](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Diceman)\ **Post date:** [November 3, 2015, 3:39pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/the-next-big-automotive-scandal/731693/204 "2015-11-03T15:39:00Z")
> [@WordMan](#): > > I don’t believe so - the opposite; they were overtaking Toyota as the largest automaker. But they were focused on championing diesel and showing it is smart choice as gas engines trend down and electronic cars trend up but aren’t quite ready/cheap enough for mass adoption. Nitpick: Electric cars aren’t “quite” cheap enough, they’re a long way from being cheap enough for mass adoption. Tesla sells cars for $80,000, and they’re still losing money. General Motors and Nissan are both believed to lose money on the Volt & the Leaf. In contrast, the electric cars that are cheap enough for normal people to buy are still basically glorified golf carts. Diesel at least has the advantage of being here, now, but VW didn’t want to accept the performance hit that the emissions systems cause, so they cheated. ---
**Author:** ![jz78817](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/jz78817/32/1028_2.png) [@jz78817](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/jz78817)\ **Post date:** [November 3, 2015, 3:53pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/the-next-big-automotive-scandal/731693/205 "2015-11-03T15:53:01Z")
> [@Diceman](#): > > Nitpick: Electric cars aren’t “quite” cheap enough, they’re a long way from being cheap enough for mass adoption. Tesla sells cars for $80,000, and they’re still losing money. General Motors and Nissan are both believed to lose money on the Volt & the Leaf. In contrast, the electric cars that are cheap enough for normal people to buy are still basically glorified golf carts. > > Diesel at least has the advantage of being here, now, but VW didn’t want to accept the performance hit that the emissions systems cause, so they cheated. up until 2015-2016, they were trying to do it on the cheap by not using SCR. the only reason they cheated was cost reasons, their chase for volume meant low sticker prices and as of right now SCR is expensive. Mazda was trying to avoid SCR on the Skyactiv-D and gave up. ---
**Author:** ![Really\_Not\_All\_That\_Bright](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/r/e8c25b/32.png) [@Really\_Not\_All\_That\_Bright](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Really_Not_All_That_Bright)\ **Post date:** [November 4, 2015, 6:15pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/the-next-big-automotive-scandal/731693/206 "2015-11-04T18:15:05Z")
[The news keeps coming](http://www.topgear.com/car-news/insider/vw-emissions-scandal-latest-porsche-stop-selling-cayenne-diesel-us): Porsche is discontinuing the (VW-engined) diesel Cayenne in the US, and VW is now saying something similar might have been done with its gas-powered cars. ---
**Author:** ![WordMan](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/w/e8c25b/32.png) [@WordMan](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/WordMan)\ **Post date:** [November 4, 2015, 7:19pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/the-next-big-automotive-scandal/731693/207 "2015-11-04T19:19:25Z")
> [@Diceman](#): > > Nitpick: Electric cars aren’t “quite” cheap enough, they’re a long way from being cheap enough for mass adoption. Tesla sells cars for $80,000, and they’re still losing money. General Motors and Nissan are both believed to lose money on the Volt & the Leaf. In contrast, the electric cars that are cheap enough for normal people to buy are still basically glorified golf carts. > > Diesel at least has the advantage of being here, now, but VW didn’t want to accept the performance hit that the emissions systems cause, so they cheated. All good context. Thanks for picking that nit 😉 **RNATB** - yep; the hits just keep on coming. They are being pressured to provide a report on the scope and volume of their deception(s), and stumbling through what they are finding. Surprising they were good enough to maintain the deception for upwards of a decade. ---
**Author:** ![Diceman](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/d/22d042/32.png) [@Diceman](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Diceman)\ **Post date:** [November 6, 2015, 1:20pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/the-next-big-automotive-scandal/731693/208 "2015-11-06T13:20:49Z")
A bit off-topic, but remember the Takata airbag scandal? Looks like Takata is in pretty deep doo-doo. [Honda, Toyota, and Mazda](http://www.autonews.com/article/20151106/OEM11/151109872/toyota-joins-honda-in-ditching-takata-airbag-inflators) have announced that they will no longer use Takata airbags in their vehicles. Mitsubishi is considering dumping them as well. I wonder if Takata is going to survive this. I remember there were American cars involved in the recall, but I don’t think any of the US automakers have used them much recently. They’ve always been mostly a Japanese supplier. ---
**Author:** ![jz78817](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/jz78817/32/1028_2.png) [@jz78817](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/jz78817)\ **Post date:** [November 6, 2015, 5:02pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/the-next-big-automotive-scandal/731693/209 "2015-11-06T17:02:37Z")
Primarily a supplier to Japanese automakers, but they still sold a lot to other ones. and this list is just U.S. market vehicles: > [@Diceman](#): > > A bit off-topic, but remember the Takata airbag scandal? Looks like Takata is in pretty deep doo-doo. [Honda, Toyota, and Mazda](http://www.autonews.com/article/20151106/OEM11/151109872/toyota-joins-honda-in-ditching-takata-airbag-inflators) have announced that they will no longer use Takata airbags in their vehicles. Mitsubishi is considering dumping them as well. I wonder if Takata is going to survive this. I remember there were American cars involved in the recall, but I don’t think any of the US automakers have used them much recently. They’ve always been mostly a Japanese supplier. AFFECTED VEHICLES (total U.S.-market number in parentheses, if known): **Acura:** 2002–2003 TL; 2003 CL; 2003–2006 MDX; 2005 Acura RL **BMW** (approximately 765,000): 2000–2006 3-series sedan and wagon; 2002–2006 3-series coupe and convertible; 2001–2006 M3 coupe and convertible; 2002–2003 5-series and M5; 2003–2004 X5 \*\*Chevrolet \*\*(330,198, including GMC): 2007–2008 Chevrolet Silverado HD **Chrysler:** 2005–2010 Chrysler 300; 2007–2008 Aspen \*\*Daimler \*\*(40,061): 2006–2008 Dodge Sprinter 2500 and 3500; 2007–2008 Freightliner Sprinter 2500 and 3500 **Dodge/Ram** (approximately 5.63 million, including Chrysler, not including Daimler-built Sprinter): 2003–2008 Dodge Ram 1500; 2005–2010 Charger and Magnum; 2005–2011 Dakota; 2004–2008 Durango; 2003–2009 Ram 2500 and 3500; 2008–2010 Challenger, Ram 4500, and Ram 5500 \*\*Ford \*\*(1,380,604): 2004–2006 Ranger; 2005–2006 GT; 2005–2014 Mustang **GMC:** 2007–2008 GMC Sierra HD **Honda** (approximately 6.28 million, including Acura): 2001–2007 Accord (four-cylinder); 2001–2002 Accord (V-6); 2001–2005 Civic; 2002–2006, 2016 CR-V; 2002–2004 Odyssey; 2003–2005 Civic Hybrid; 2003–2011 Element; 2003–2008 Pilot; 2006 Ridgeline **Infiniti:** 2001–2004 Infiniti I30/I35; 2002–2003 Infiniti QX4; 2003–2005 Infiniti FX35/FX45; 2006 Infiniti M35/M45 **Lexus:** 2002–2007 SC430 **Mazda** (444,907): 2003–2008 Mazda 6; 2006–2007 Mazdaspeed 6; 2004–2008 Mazda RX-8; 2004–2005 MPV; 2004–2006 B-series **Mitsubishi** (104,994): 2004–2006 Lancer and Lancer Evolution; 2006–2009 Raider **Nissan** (approximately 1,091,000, including Infiniti): 2001–2003 Maxima; 2002–2004 Pathfinder; 2002–2006 Nissan Sentra **Pontiac** (approximately 300,000): 2003–2007 Vibe \*\*Saab: \*\*2005 9-2X **Subaru** (approximately 80,000): 2003–2005 Baja, Legacy, Outback; 2004–2005 Impreza, Impreza WRX, Impreza WRX STI **Toyota** (approximately 2,915,000, including Lexus): 2002–2007 Toyota Sequoia; 2003–2007 Corolla and Corolla Matrix; 2003–2006 Tundra; 2004–2005 RAV4 ---
**Author:** ![Really\_Not\_All\_That\_Bright](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/r/e8c25b/32.png) [@Really\_Not\_All\_That\_Bright](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Really_Not_All_That_Bright)\ **Post date:** [November 6, 2015, 6:13pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/the-next-big-automotive-scandal/731693/210 "2015-11-06T18:13:28Z")
Well, at least VW isn’t on that list. 😉 ---
**Author:** ![Siam\_Sam](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/s/d78d45/32.png) [@Siam\_Sam](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Siam_Sam)\ **Post date:** [November 6, 2015, 11:54pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/the-next-big-automotive-scandal/731693/211 "2015-11-06T23:54:51Z")
> [@Really\_Not\_All\_That\_Bright](#): > > Well, at least VW isn’t on that list. 😉 … yet. ---
**Author:** ![Diceman](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/d/22d042/32.png) [@Diceman](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Diceman)\ **Post date:** [November 9, 2015, 7:53pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/the-next-big-automotive-scandal/731693/212 "2015-11-09T19:53:15Z")
…and now [Nissan](http://www.reuters.com/article/2015/11/07/us-nissan-airbag-takata-idUSKCN0SW06220151107) is ditching Takata airbags. The future is looking pretty bleak for Takata. Maybe they should get into the defense industry. Their airbag inflators would make great hand grenades 😛 Back to the diesel cheating scandal: VW is now offering [$500 gift cards,](http://www.freep.com/story/money/cars/2015/11/09/volkswagen-diesel-emissions-software-debit-cards-gift-cards-compensation/75451982/) plus $500 dealer credits (“Please don’t leave us”) and 3 years of free roadside maintenance. The final cost for this is gonna be massive. ---
**Author:** ![davidm](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/davidm/32/225_2.png) [@davidm](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/davidm)\ **Post date:** [November 9, 2015, 8:01pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/the-next-big-automotive-scandal/731693/213 "2015-11-09T20:01:37Z")
> [@Diceman](#): > > …and now [Nissan](http://www.reuters.com/article/2015/11/07/us-nissan-airbag-takata-idUSKCN0SW06220151107) is ditching Takata airbags. The future is looking pretty bleak for Takata. Maybe they should get into the defense industry. Their airbag inflators would make great hand grenades 😛 > > Back to the diesel cheating scandal: VW is now offering [$500 gift cards,](http://www.freep.com/story/money/cars/2015/11/09/volkswagen-diesel-emissions-software-debit-cards-gift-cards-compensation/75451982/) plus $500 dealer credits (“Please don’t leave us”) and 3 years of free roadside maintenance. The final cost for this is gonna be massive. I wonder if the dealer credits are good for maintenance or just for purchases of vehicles and accessories. ---
**Author:** ![Cell\_Guy](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/c/df705f/32.png) [@Cell\_Guy](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Cell_Guy)\ **Post date:** [November 10, 2015, 1:25am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/the-next-big-automotive-scandal/731693/214 "2015-11-10T01:25:25Z")
> [@Diceman](#): > > Back to the diesel cheating scandal: VW is now offering [$500 gift cards,](http://www.freep.com/story/money/cars/2015/11/09/volkswagen-diesel-emissions-software-debit-cards-gift-cards-compensation/75451982/) plus $500 dealer credits (“Please don’t leave us”) and 3 years of free roadside maintenance. The final cost for this is gonna be massive. Yep, I submitted my request earlier today. I thought it curious that they asked for mileage, but it makes sense if the possibility of a buy back is still on the table. > [@davidm](#): > > I wonder if the dealer credits are good for maintenance or just for purchases of vehicles and accessories. The terms and conditions state the card is valid at participating dealers so it may be possible that dealers can determine how the card is used. I was going to use it to bling mine out, but c’mon, it’s a Jetta. I hope to use mine on new floor mats and possibly new tires. ---
**Author:** ![Really\_Not\_All\_That\_Bright](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/r/e8c25b/32.png) [@Really\_Not\_All\_That\_Bright](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Really_Not_All_That_Bright)\ **Post date:** [November 10, 2015, 2:33am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/the-next-big-automotive-scandal/731693/215 "2015-11-10T02:33:03Z")
Wonder if I can swap the GTI badge on mine for a TDI badge for $500. ---
**Author:** ![jz78817](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/jz78817/32/1028_2.png) [@jz78817](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/jz78817)\ **Post date:** [November 10, 2015, 9:47am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/the-next-big-automotive-scandal/731693/216 "2015-11-10T09:47:34Z")
> [@Really\_Not\_All\_That\_Bright](#): > > [The news keeps coming](http://www.topgear.com/car-news/insider/vw-emissions-scandal-latest-porsche-stop-selling-cayenne-diesel-us): Porsche is discontinuing the (VW-engined) diesel Cayenne in the US, and VW is now saying something similar might have been done with its gas-powered cars. Meanwhile, GM was apparently able to meet the standards without cheating: [http://www.autoblog.com/2015/11/09/2016-chevy-colorado-duramax-31-mpg/](http://www.autoblog.com/2015/11/09/2016-chevy-colorado-duramax-31-mpg/) [Previous page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/the-next-big-automotive-scandal/731693.md?page=10)