# The NFL has moved the extra point try back to the 15. Opinions? **URL:** \ **Category:** The Game Room\ **Created:** [September 13, 2015, 1:15am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/the-nfl-has-moved-the-extra-point-try-back-to-the-15-opinions/731009 "2015-09-13T01:15:01Z")\ **Posts on this page:** 20\ **Page:** 3
**Author:** ![Barkis\_is\_Willin](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/b/a183cd/32.png) [@Barkis\_is\_Willin](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Barkis_is_Willin)\ **Post date:** [September 14, 2015, 4:38pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/the-nfl-has-moved-the-extra-point-try-back-to-the-15-opinions/731009/41 "2015-09-14T16:38:38Z")
I hate it. I don’t understand why you want to put more significance on the kicker and, specifically, the PAT. The 1 point conversion SHOULD be nearly automatic. Was anyone complaining about it before? ---
**Author:** ![Really\_Not\_All\_That\_Bright](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/r/e8c25b/32.png) [@Really\_Not\_All\_That\_Bright](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Really_Not_All_That_Bright)\ **Post date:** [September 14, 2015, 4:39pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/the-nfl-has-moved-the-extra-point-try-back-to-the-15-opinions/731009/42 "2015-09-14T16:39:38Z")
Why wouldn’t you want to put more significance on the kicker? Why should there be an element of the game that’s “nearly automatic”? What other sport has pointless side games? ---
**Author:** ![TroutMan](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/troutman/32/6721_2.png) [@TroutMan](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/TroutMan)\ **Post date:** [September 14, 2015, 4:56pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/the-nfl-has-moved-the-extra-point-try-back-to-the-15-opinions/731009/43 "2015-09-14T16:56:21Z")
> [@OldGuy](#): > > That link says the Brown’s Tulpa had three of them that season so I’d guess there were a bit more than two. It’s says three but doesn’t say they were all fakes. It’s a reasonable guess since it wouldn’t make a lot of sense to line up the punter for a regular play, but then again these are the Browns. > [@EllisDee](#): > > I would have changed it by spotting the ball at the 1. Tempt the scoring team into going for 2 with the carrot, not the stick. Except that plays from the 1 are more boring in general. You see a more interesting balance of runs, passes, and trick plays from the 2. > [@Quercus](#): > > To make the game better, just make the kick a gimme: teams can take one automatic extra point without having to do anything, or try for two. I like this idea. Games decided on kicks suck. ---
**Author:** ![EllisDee](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/ellisdee/32/4531_2.png) [@EllisDee](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/EllisDee)\ **Post date:** [September 14, 2015, 5:11pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/the-nfl-has-moved-the-extra-point-try-back-to-the-15-opinions/731009/44 "2015-09-14T17:11:19Z")
> [@TroutMan](#): > > It’s says three but doesn’t say they were all fakes. It’s a reasonable guess since it wouldn’t make a lot of sense to line up the punter for a regular play, but then again these are the Browns. No, it’s not “these are the Browns.” It’s “this is [Tom Tupa](https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Tom_Tupa).” > [@](#): > > Tupa was drafted in the third round (68th overall) of the 1988 NFL Draft by the Phoenix Cardinals. During his rookie year, he was used exclusively as a quarterback, playing in two games and completing 4-of-5 passes for 49 yards. His second season with the team saw an expanded role. He started two games at quarterback, while registering six punts for 46.7 yards per punt. After spending the entire 1990 season as strictly a holder on kicks, he was the primary quarterback for the Cardinals the following year, playing in 11 games and throwing six touchdowns to 13 interceptions. He then joined the Indianapolis Colts in 1992, playing as a backup quarterback to Jack Trudeau and Jeff George. ---
**Author:** ![TroutMan](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/troutman/32/6721_2.png) [@TroutMan](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/TroutMan)\ **Post date:** [September 14, 2015, 5:31pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/the-nfl-has-moved-the-extra-point-try-back-to-the-15-opinions/731009/45 "2015-09-14T17:31:59Z")
Well, yeah, but he was not the QB for the Browns when he scored three 2-pt conversions. The next line from the text you quoted is > [@](#): > > That season [1992] also marked the last time Tupa was used regularly as a quarterback; since then he almost exclusively punted, with only emergency occasions or trick plays making use of his throwing skills. I can’t find the actual statistics so it’s possible he lined up as QB for some of those conversions, but it isn’t likely. (And this is all a tangent to the main point, that fake PATs are exceedingly rare, especially after the newness of the 2-pt try wore off.) ---
**Author:** ![Barkis\_is\_Willin](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/b/a183cd/32.png) [@Barkis\_is\_Willin](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Barkis_is_Willin)\ **Post date:** [September 14, 2015, 5:54pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/the-nfl-has-moved-the-extra-point-try-back-to-the-15-opinions/731009/46 "2015-09-14T17:54:34Z")
> [@Really\_Not\_All\_That\_Bright](#): > > Why wouldn’t you want to put more significance on the kicker? Why should there be an element of the game that’s “nearly automatic”? What other sport has pointless side games? Because football isn’t about kicking the PAT. And moving the attempt back to the 15 yard line makes it only very slightly less pointless. Until, like the Browns yesterday, you get a procedure and then a holding penalty and next thing you know you’re kicking a 48 yard PAT. Absurd. Seriously, holding on a PAT attempt. ---
**Author:** ![BobLibDem](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/boblibdem/32/3149_2.png) [@BobLibDem](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/BobLibDem)\ **Post date:** [September 14, 2015, 6:37pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/the-nfl-has-moved-the-extra-point-try-back-to-the-15-opinions/731009/47 "2015-09-14T18:37:44Z")
I wouldn’t mind if they mandated that XPs were drop-kicked, this would certainly eliminate the automatic point. In that event, bring it back to the 2 so that the coaches have to choose between an unsure single point and a somewhat more unsure two points. ---
**Author:** ![Ravenman](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/ravenman/32/2929_2.png) [@Ravenman](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Ravenman)\ **Post date:** [September 14, 2015, 6:45pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/the-nfl-has-moved-the-extra-point-try-back-to-the-15-opinions/731009/48 "2015-09-14T18:45:51Z")
> [@Barkis\_is\_Willin](#): > > Because football isn’t about kicking the PAT. And moving the attempt back to the 15 yard line makes it only very slightly less pointless. Until, like the Browns yesterday, you get a procedure and then a holding penalty and next thing you know you’re kicking a 48 yard PAT. Absurd. Everything up until the “absurd” comment can be read as a pretty good argument for moving the PAT back. ---
**Author:** ![eschereal](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/eschereal/32/18939_2.png) [@eschereal](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/eschereal)\ **Post date:** [September 14, 2015, 7:04pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/the-nfl-has-moved-the-extra-point-try-back-to-the-15-opinions/731009/49 "2015-09-14T19:04:18Z")
> [@BobLibDem](#): > > I wouldn’t mind if they mandated that XPs were drop-kicked, this would certainly eliminate the automatic point. In that event, bring it back to the 2 so that the coaches have to choose between an unsure single point and a somewhat more unsure two points. I say it should be the punter trying to score [a rouge](http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Single_%28football%29). That would make it really interesting. ---
**Author:** ![Really\_Not\_All\_That\_Bright](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/r/e8c25b/32.png) [@Really\_Not\_All\_That\_Bright](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Really_Not_All_That_Bright)\ **Post date:** [September 14, 2015, 7:14pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/the-nfl-has-moved-the-extra-point-try-back-to-the-15-opinions/731009/50 "2015-09-14T19:14:44Z")
> [@Barkis\_is\_Willin](#): > > Because football isn’t about kicking the PAT. It’s part of the game. You might as well say football isn’t about penalties and get rid of those, too. ---
**Author:** ![Barkis\_is\_Willin](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/b/a183cd/32.png) [@Barkis\_is\_Willin](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Barkis_is_Willin)\ **Post date:** [September 14, 2015, 7:38pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/the-nfl-has-moved-the-extra-point-try-back-to-the-15-opinions/731009/51 "2015-09-14T19:38:37Z")
Was the PAT last year negatively impacting your enjoyment of watching football? Does the PAT this year enhance your enjoyment of watching football? In terms of equating with penalties, it’s more like making pre-snap procedural penalties now worth 15 yards. It’s putting too much emphasis on a very small part of the game. ---
**Author:** ![Really\_Not\_All\_That\_Bright](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/r/e8c25b/32.png) [@Really\_Not\_All\_That\_Bright](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Really_Not_All_That_Bright)\ **Post date:** [September 14, 2015, 7:41pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/the-nfl-has-moved-the-extra-point-try-back-to-the-15-opinions/731009/52 "2015-09-14T19:41:20Z")
Kicking _isn’t_ a small part of the game. It accounts for half the scoring, or 90% if the Browns are playing. It’s such an important part of the game it requires a dedicated player at the position, something no other play type does. ---
**Author:** ![Barkis\_is\_Willin](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/b/a183cd/32.png) [@Barkis\_is\_Willin](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Barkis_is_Willin)\ **Post date:** [September 14, 2015, 7:43pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/the-nfl-has-moved-the-extra-point-try-back-to-the-15-opinions/731009/53 "2015-09-14T19:43:40Z")
So more kicking enhances your enjoyment of watching football? ---
**Author:** ![Really\_Not\_All\_That\_Bright](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/r/e8c25b/32.png) [@Really\_Not\_All\_That\_Bright](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Really_Not_All_That_Bright)\ **Post date:** [September 14, 2015, 7:51pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/the-nfl-has-moved-the-extra-point-try-back-to-the-15-opinions/731009/54 "2015-09-14T19:51:09Z")
Sometimes, though not often. If the point of every rule change is to enhance my enjoyment of the game then most of the rules are useless. ---
**Author:** ![EllisDee](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/ellisdee/32/4531_2.png) [@EllisDee](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/EllisDee)\ **Post date:** [September 14, 2015, 8:46pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/the-nfl-has-moved-the-extra-point-try-back-to-the-15-opinions/731009/55 "2015-09-14T20:46:49Z")
> [@Barkis\_is\_Willin](#): > > So more kicking enhances your enjoyment of watching football? One of the best games I ever saw was the 1990 NFC Conference Championship: Giants @ 49ers. From the Giants’ side, it was all field goals all the time. [Video recap of the game](http://www.nfl.com/videos/nfl-videos/09000d5d82629c7a/Films-Encore-1990-NFC-Championship-game) for any Giants fans that want to relive the awesomeness. My favorite memory from that was the sideline report on Montana after the Leonard Marshall hit, when asked where it hurt: “It hurts all over.” ---
**Author:** ![Really\_Not\_All\_That\_Bright](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/r/e8c25b/32.png) [@Really\_Not\_All\_That\_Bright](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Really_Not_All_That_Bright)\ **Post date:** [September 14, 2015, 9:32pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/the-nfl-has-moved-the-extra-point-try-back-to-the-15-opinions/731009/56 "2015-09-14T21:32:01Z")
I don’t remember what year it was, but there was a London game with the Dolphins where it rained the whole time and the field was a mud pit. The final score was something like 6-3. It was awesome, though. ---
**Author:** ![kenobi\_65](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/kenobi_65/32/13178_2.png) [@kenobi\_65](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/kenobi_65)\ **Post date:** [September 14, 2015, 9:51pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/the-nfl-has-moved-the-extra-point-try-back-to-the-15-opinions/731009/57 "2015-09-14T21:51:04Z")
> [@Really\_Not\_All\_That\_Bright](#): > > I don’t remember what year it was, but there was a London game with the Dolphins where it rained the whole time and the field was a mud pit. The final score was something like 6-3. It was awesome, though. You might be thinking of [this Dolphins / Steelers MNF game from 2007](https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=x7DTNEa2E7w) (final score 3-0). However, that was in Pittsburgh. ---
**Author:** ![Really\_Not\_All\_That\_Bright](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/r/e8c25b/32.png) [@Really\_Not\_All\_That\_Bright](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Really_Not_All_That_Bright)\ **Post date:** [September 14, 2015, 10:25pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/the-nfl-has-moved-the-extra-point-try-back-to-the-15-opinions/731009/58 "2015-09-14T22:25:27Z")
No, it was a London game. [This one](http://espn.go.com/nfl/recap?gameId=271028015), in fact (Giants “at” Dolphins 2007), though the score wasn’t as low as I thought. ---
**Author:** ![eschereal](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/eschereal/32/18939_2.png) [@eschereal](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/eschereal)\ **Post date:** [November 24, 2015, 5:46am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/the-nfl-has-moved-the-extra-point-try-back-to-the-15-opinions/731009/59 "2015-11-24T05:46:49Z")
Every team has now played ten games, so it might be a good time to peek at the stats. I hand-counted these, so they might be a bit inexact. The extra point conversion rate is about 94.4% – about 1% of PATs get blocked. Two point conversions are attempted at a rate of a bit under 8% of TDs, with the usual coin-toss success rate. Not sure how that compares to previous seasons. So the rate of 6-point TDs is a bit over 9% overall. Some teams seem to have more misses than other teams, but even some of the most automatic of kickers have missed a conversion. ---
**Author:** ![kenobi\_65](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/kenobi_65/32/13178_2.png) [@kenobi\_65](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/kenobi_65)\ **Post date:** [November 24, 2015, 6:06am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/the-nfl-has-moved-the-extra-point-try-back-to-the-15-opinions/731009/60 "2015-11-24T06:06:20Z")
> [@eschereal](#): > > The extra point conversion rate is about 94.4% – about 1% of PATs get blocked. XP accuracy had been gradually growing better and better over the course of the past four or five decades; it’d only been at 99+% since 2000. An accuracy rate in the low-to-mid 90% range puts it back where it was in the late '70s / early '80s. [Previous page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/the-nfl-has-moved-the-extra-point-try-back-to-the-15-opinions/731009.md?page=2) [Next page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/the-nfl-has-moved-the-extra-point-try-back-to-the-15-opinions/731009.md?page=4)