# The NFL is Tax Exempt... WTF?! **URL:** \ **Category:** The Game Room\ **Created:** [May 22, 2013, 1:22pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/the-nfl-is-tax-exempt-wtf/659011 "2013-05-22T13:22:32Z")\ **Posts on this page:** 20\ **Page:** 3
**Author:** ![Idle\_Thoughts](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/i/838e76/32.png) [@Idle\_Thoughts](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Idle_Thoughts)\ **Post date:** [May 22, 2013, 11:16pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/the-nfl-is-tax-exempt-wtf/659011/41 "2013-05-22T23:16:01Z")
> [@Amateur\_Barbarian](#): > > Yep, you’re right, it’s all about me, and as Ray D. Tutto I hereby abolish all paid sports involvement. > > Schmuck. It’s against the rules to call other people names in this forum. Use the BBQ Pit next time (start a topic there). Don’t call others names in this forum again. ---
**Author:** ![BigT](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/bigt/32/12044_2.png) [@BigT](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/BigT)\ **Post date:** [May 23, 2013, 8:25pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/the-nfl-is-tax-exempt-wtf/659011/42 "2013-05-23T20:25:48Z")
I just wonder where all these arguments were when people were complaining about megachurches selling stuff and making a profit. Everyone constantly wants to revoke those churches’ tax-exempt statuses. ---
**Author:** ![bump](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/b/7c8e57/32.png) [@bump](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/bump)\ **Post date:** [May 23, 2013, 8:30pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/the-nfl-is-tax-exempt-wtf/659011/43 "2013-05-23T20:30:25Z")
> [@Disgruntled\_Penguin](#): > > Right, but besides other sports leagues, Chamber of Commerce. Bar Association. Real Estate Board and all other 501(c) 6 organizations, who else is a nonprofit that manages for profit organizations? > > Just like I thought. Uh, the American Medical Association (AMA) I mentioned above does much the same sort of thing for individual doctors, who are most surely for-profit. Same thing with the bar association- what lawyers do you know that aren’t in it for profit? There are very few that are wholly pro-bono, if any at all. Chambers of Commerce does much the same kinds of things for you guessed it… commercial organizations. I think there’s probably no small amount of confusion about what the NFL league office does exactly. As far as I can tell, it does things like discipline teams and players if they violated the by-laws, negotiate league-wide TV deals, negotiates collective bargaining agreements with the players’ association, sets the rules, sets the schedules, and all sorts of other league-wide stuff. It’s essentially a trade association much like the Bar or the AMA- what the league does is basically what trade associations do for their members. ---
**Author:** ![Munch](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/munch/32/5281_2.png) [@Munch](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Munch)\ **Post date:** [May 23, 2013, 8:43pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/the-nfl-is-tax-exempt-wtf/659011/44 "2013-05-23T20:43:13Z")
> [@BigT](#): > > I just wonder where all these arguments were when people were complaining about megachurches selling stuff and making a profit. Everyone constantly wants to revoke those churches’ tax-exempt statuses. I pay attention to most tax-exempt related discussions on the board - but I have no idea what you’re talking about. Regardless, [this](http://www.nolo.com/legal-encyclopedia/taxes-nonprofit-corporation-earnings-30284.html) may clear things up for you. ---
**Author:** ![Cheesesteak](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/cheesesteak/32/3694_2.png) [@Cheesesteak](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Cheesesteak)\ **Post date:** [May 23, 2013, 8:44pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/the-nfl-is-tax-exempt-wtf/659011/45 "2013-05-23T20:44:41Z")
I’m a bit on the fence when it comes to things like providing low/no interest loans to the clubs. It’s one of those deals that’s just circular enough to make me unsure if there is any inappropriate benefit to the clubs. ---
**Author:** ![Really\_Not\_All\_That\_Bright](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/r/e8c25b/32.png) [@Really\_Not\_All\_That\_Bright](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Really_Not_All_That_Bright)\ **Post date:** [May 24, 2013, 12:09am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/the-nfl-is-tax-exempt-wtf/659011/46 "2013-05-24T00:09:28Z")
> [@Amateur\_Barbarian](#): > > Why should the “holding company” be itself exempt, regardless of the tax status of the “held companies”? If it’s an entirely passthrough/summary entity, their tax burden will be negligible. If they run $50 million in costs through it, the net should be taxable. It’s not a holding company. NFL teams are privately held. It would be more accurate to say that the NFL is held by its member teams. ---
**Author:** ![Zakalwe](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/zakalwe/32/270_2.png) [@Zakalwe](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Zakalwe)\ **Post date:** [May 24, 2013, 12:14am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/the-nfl-is-tax-exempt-wtf/659011/47 "2013-05-24T00:14:46Z")
> [@Freddy\_the\_Pig](#): > > From the article linked by the OP: If they are writing them off as charitable donations, they are in violation of the tax code since 501(c)6 organizations are not charities. They may be using them as a cost or business expense to reduce their taxable income, but that ain’t the same thing at all. ---
**Author:** ![Really\_Not\_All\_That\_Bright](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/r/e8c25b/32.png) [@Really\_Not\_All\_That\_Bright](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Really_Not_All_That_Bright)\ **Post date:** [May 24, 2013, 12:19am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/the-nfl-is-tax-exempt-wtf/659011/48 "2013-05-24T00:19:22Z")
I suspect the writer is confused between tax treatment of 501©(6)s themselves and treatment of donations to such groups. ---
**Author:** ![Telemark](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/telemark/32/372_2.png) [@Telemark](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Telemark)\ **Post date:** [May 24, 2013, 12:40am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/the-nfl-is-tax-exempt-wtf/659011/49 "2013-05-24T00:40:05Z")
> [@bump](#): > > Uh, the American Medical Association (AMA) I mentioned above does much the same sort of thing for individual doctors, who are most surely for-profit. All right, but apart from the sanitation, the medicine, education, wine, public order, irrigation, roads, the fresh-water system, and public health, what have the Romans ever done for us? I think it was a joke. ---
**Author:** ![Zakalwe](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/zakalwe/32/270_2.png) [@Zakalwe](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Zakalwe)\ **Post date:** [May 24, 2013, 12:51am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/the-nfl-is-tax-exempt-wtf/659011/50 "2013-05-24T00:51:34Z")
> [@Really\_Not\_All\_That\_Bright](#): > > I suspect the writer is confused between tax treatment of 501(c)(6)s themselves and treatment of donations to such groups. Yeah, I agree, but it’s just one of those things. I’m not a particularly sophisticated guy when it comes to taxes. I really don’t know the ins-and-outs of the tax law and I knew he was wrong almost immediately. If he got something that basic wrong, how reliable is the rest of the stuff he reports? ---
**Author:** ![Quimby](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/q/22d042/32.png) [@Quimby](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Quimby)\ **Post date:** [May 24, 2013, 2:15am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/the-nfl-is-tax-exempt-wtf/659011/51 "2013-05-24T02:15:57Z")
I find it amazing that no matter how egregious a corporate entity is, people will always flock to its defense. It’s a wonder they need to pay lobbyists. This is clearly a tax shelter and certainly against the spirit of what Non Profit organizations are supposed to be if not the letter. ---
**Author:** ![denquixote](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/d/b9bd4f/32.png) [@denquixote](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/denquixote)\ **Post date:** [May 24, 2013, 6:43am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/the-nfl-is-tax-exempt-wtf/659011/52 "2013-05-24T06:43:16Z")
> [@chargerrich](#): > > Oh I understand the loophole and that does absolutely zero to change my thoughts on the subject. > > Yes the U.S. Tax Code is a joke > > The NFL manages to pay out lofty sums of money to executives and teams to ensure annually so that by the “letter of the law” the “entity” known as the NFL has no profit… but back in the real world we all know that saying the NFL has no profits is offensive to even the mildly intelligent. I certainly have no love for the NFL, but this profit of which you speak, who gets it? ---
**Author:** ![Loach](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/loach/32/350_2.png) [@Loach](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Loach)\ **Post date:** [May 24, 2013, 11:55am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/the-nfl-is-tax-exempt-wtf/659011/53 "2013-05-24T11:55:28Z")
> [@Quimby](#): > > I find it amazing that no matter how egregious a corporate entity is, people will always flock to its defense. It’s a wonder they need to pay lobbyists. This is clearly a tax shelter and certainly against the spirit of what Non Profit organizations are supposed to be if not the letter. Again, you confuse charity with nonprofit. What is this spirt that you speak of? The law is not set up for only charities. Thats why they are only one part of the 501(c) law. There are 32 separate catagories of nonprofit organizations. They are listed in the link in post 23. You are under the false impression about what the spirit of the law is. If they claimed to be a 501(c)3 I would be outraged. But they are not. They are a 501(c)6 and follow the law. ---
**Author:** ![Acsenray](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/acsenray/32/4519_2.png) [@Acsenray](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Acsenray)\ **Post date:** [May 24, 2013, 12:18pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/the-nfl-is-tax-exempt-wtf/659011/54 "2013-05-24T12:18:54Z")
> [@Amateur\_Barbarian](#): > > Point to another such example of a 100% profit-oriented industry allowed an NP/NFP status for their controlling organization or holding company. I’ll wait. > [@Amateur\_Barbarian](#): > > Find me a for-profit industry in any other field allowed to organize and manage under a nonprofit org. > [@Loach](#): > > Chamber of Commece. Bar Association. Real Estate Board. > [@Disgruntled\_Penguin](#): > > Right, but besides other sports leagues, Chamber of Commerce. Bar Association. Real Estate Board and all other 501(c) 6 organizations, who else is a nonprofit that manages for profit organizations? > > Just like I thought. > [@Telemark](#): > > All right, but apart from the sanitation, the medicine, education, wine, public order, irrigation, roads, the fresh-water system, and public health, what have the Romans ever done for us? > > I think it was a joke. Royalty collection entities are often non-profit. They pass on their revenue to profit-making individuals and entities. I think it comes down to that question: What dies the OP think the NFL specifically as that entity is doing that should be taxed differently? ---
**Author:** ![Really\_Not\_All\_That\_Bright](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/r/e8c25b/32.png) [@Really\_Not\_All\_That\_Bright](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Really_Not_All_That_Bright)\ **Post date:** [May 24, 2013, 1:13pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/the-nfl-is-tax-exempt-wtf/659011/55 "2013-05-24T13:13:45Z")
> [@Quimby](#): > > I find it amazing that no matter how egregious a corporate entity is, people will always flock to its defense. It’s a wonder they need to pay lobbyists. This is clearly a tax shelter and certainly against the spirit of what Non Profit organizations are supposed to be if not the letter. _Who_ is sheltering assets in the NFL, exactly? ---
**Author:** ![Hamlet](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/hamlet/32/2818_2.png) [@Hamlet](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Hamlet)\ **Post date:** [May 24, 2013, 1:35pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/the-nfl-is-tax-exempt-wtf/659011/56 "2013-05-24T13:35:19Z")
My biggest problem with this non-profit status is that it is just a tax dodge. By calling the NFL tax exempt, the money the teams pay into the NFL in membership fees is considered a donation, thus a tax break. That money, after paying salaries, can be used to help give back to the teams in the form of zero interest loans on building or renovating the stadiums (with public aid of course). So the owners get to put that money away, tax free, until they want to use it. In addition, if I understand this properly, that means that the revenues the NFL gets aren’t taxed until they get to the owners of the teams, which means they get to avoid even more taxes that other businesses have to pay. There are these kinds of loopholes and dodges all over the tax code, and there is something to be said for the idea of the NFL as a trade association helping in the negotiations with the collective bargaining agreements, but, by and large, I don’t quite agree that the NFL should be exempt from the tax code and would support the repeal of its tax exempt status. I’m pretty sure that MLB gave up its tax exempt status a few years back. ---
**Author:** ![DCnDC](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/dcndc/32/2842_2.png) [@DCnDC](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/DCnDC)\ **Post date:** [May 24, 2013, 1:40pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/the-nfl-is-tax-exempt-wtf/659011/57 "2013-05-24T13:40:52Z")
> [@Hamlet](#): > > I’m pretty sure that MLB gave up its tax exempt status a few years back. I believe that they gave it up so they would not have to disclose the salaries of their executives. ---
**Author:** ![Really\_Not\_All\_That\_Bright](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/r/e8c25b/32.png) [@Really\_Not\_All\_That\_Bright](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Really_Not_All_That_Bright)\ **Post date:** [May 24, 2013, 1:42pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/the-nfl-is-tax-exempt-wtf/659011/58 "2013-05-24T13:42:34Z")
The MLB gave its tax exemption so it wouldn’t have to tell everyone how much its commissioner earned, not because they were Doing The Right Thing or something. Member assessments are a tiny, tiny part of NFL team revenues anyway. If you want a real NFL finance scandal, look at assessments for publicly funded stadia. They’re probably the worst idea ever, but cities continue to build them because they’re popular and play to the vanity of elected officials. Having said all that, the NFL does not act like a traditional 501©(6). Bar associations, the AMA, and similar organizations are tax exempt because they promote their fields generally. The NFL doesn’t, though it pays lip service to youth football and the like. Its sole purpose is promoting its member teams, and it squashes competition ruthlessly (or used to, when it had competition). ETA: ninja’d. ---
**Author:** ![Hamlet](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/hamlet/32/2818_2.png) [@Hamlet](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Hamlet)\ **Post date:** [May 24, 2013, 1:50pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/the-nfl-is-tax-exempt-wtf/659011/59 "2013-05-24T13:50:01Z")
> [@DCnDC](#): > > I believe that they gave it up so they would not have to disclose the salaries of their executives. The why they gave it up isn’t of much import to me. If MLB is able to thrive without this tax exempt status (or is willing to give up the tax breaks simply to hide salaries), it certainly seems there isn’t much of a reason whatsoever for the NFL to have it. I mean other than avoiding taxes for billionaires. > [@Really\_Not\_All\_That\_Bright](#): > > Member assessments are a tiny, tiny part of NFL team revenues anyway. Compared to television and other revenues, yes, they are. But they are also a way for the owners to sock away $6 million dollars a year tax free as a donation to a non-profit. It’s a tax break for the owners, not the NFL. > [@RNATB](#): > > If you want a real NFL finance scandal, look at assessments for publicly funded stadia. They’re probably the worst idea ever, but cities continue to build them because they’re popular and play to the vanity of elected officials. I agree. That doesn’t make the tax exempt issue go away though. > [@RNATB](#): > > Having said all that, the NFL does not act like a traditional 501(c)(6). Bar associations, the AMA, and similar organizations are tax exempt because they promote their fields generally. The NFL doesn’t, though it pays lip service to youth football and the like. Its sole purpose is promoting its member teams, and it squashes competition ruthlessly (or used to, when it had competition). Exactly. The NFL is there to promote the teams, not help society or further sport in America, it’s there to make more money. ---
**Author:** ![DCnDC](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/dcndc/32/2842_2.png) [@DCnDC](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/DCnDC)\ **Post date:** [May 24, 2013, 1:52pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/the-nfl-is-tax-exempt-wtf/659011/60 "2013-05-24T13:52:36Z")
> [@Really\_Not\_All\_That\_Bright](#): > > The MLB gave its tax exemption so it wouldn’t have to tell everyone how much its commissioner earned, not because they were Doing The Right Thing or something. And they make ridiculous salaries. Bud Selig reportedly earns over $22 million a year, more than all but 7 players in the league, and easily more than double what executives in similar positions in other sports earn (Roger Goodell is the 2nd highest paid top exec and makes about $11 mil). [Previous page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/the-nfl-is-tax-exempt-wtf/659011.md?page=2) [Next page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/the-nfl-is-tax-exempt-wtf/659011.md?page=4)