How so? Try being a lawyer and not part of the bar association.
Not all states have unitary bar associations, but that’s not the point. The point is that bar associations exist to promote the practice of law. Most of what the bar association does is ensuring that lawyers are qualified to practice. Sure, they also provide member benefits, but bar association members compete with each other.
NFL teams do not compete with each other (in the economic sense). That’s why the NFL players’ union is so powerful: because the NFL is set up in a manner that is inherently anticompetitive, and the players wield a big stick in terms of having to approve most of what goes on (because of the NLRA).
Yup, I think some people assume the NFL actually is a big business that is synonymous with “professional football”, and it isn’t. Most professional sports leagues in America there is no central ownership, there is an organizing body that organizes the sport in a controlled way but essentially all the profit, expenses, and such are generated and incurred by the member clubs. That they kick some portion to a central trade organization is truly no different than the relationship between businesses in Charleston, SC and the Charleston, SC Chamber of Commerce.
Now, my understanding is while that’s true for the NFL/MLB/NBA, it isn’t true for all sports. I could be wrong on this as I’m not a soccer fan, but I believe Major League Soccer is actually owned by investors and they collectively own the entire league, including all of its teams. If MLS is a non-profit that might be more objectionable, because they have investors expecting a return on investment which is mostly incompatible with the tax code in reference to a non-profit.
I think UFC is another example, it’s a single business and the White family owns it and basically all the fighters are employees of UFC.
You are correct. Major League Soccer owns its “member” teams precisely to avoid antitrust issues.
That’s not really that different from my business and our Chamber of Commerce dues. If you can demonstrate the CoC dues advance your business they are tax deductible (and under the logic dues to trade organizations are generally presumed to be tax deductible), but that actually is the same logic that allows me to deduct from revenue the costs of advertising or any other valid business expense. Businesses generally can deduct most expenses incurred as part of operating their business. I think it’d be hard to argue that you don’t get anything back from Chamber dues, there are lots of discounts and free (other than your dues) advertising opportunities through the Chamber.
You think the NFL should promote things that aren’t the NFL? Thats your main problem with it? I’m a member of the PBA. My dues are mandatory but tax deductable. Should the PBA be forced to promote the FOP? (I believe both fall under 501(c)8).
Nitpick: the UFC is owned by the Fertitta brothers. It was Dana White’s idea to buy it but they had the money. White owns 10%.
Missed this post until I saw it quoted.
I don’t think these are parallel examples: none of the above have any financial interest in or control of the members as the NFL does of the member teams. They are largely voluntary-membership collectives (less so for the bar, but there are many optional legal associations and groups), not businesses in their own right.
A more apt parallel might be Visa or MasterCard - very small holding companies that license the name, marks and interchange system to member banks. They don’t handle a single card transaction themselves but are very much a controlling, financially involved and for-profit operation overseeing a mega-bazillion dollar industry. If they were to try and claim tax exemption or NP/NFP status they’d be laughed out of court. But the holy religions of bonking the sacred ball around, now…
No those are the precise examples since they also fall under 501(c)6. Visa is a profit making company. They pay (or should pay) taxes on their profit. The NFL is not. Any profit that is made on things the NFL controls is distributed to the individual team corporations where it is taxed. Visa does not do that. I see the issue of if the loans are a tax dodge for the teams as a separate issue from if the NFL should fall under 501(c)6.
Of course the hyperbole comes from the* its a 10 billion dollar industry and they don’t get taxed!* That is of course false. The vast majority of that $10 billion goes to the teams where they have to pay taxes on it. The dues from the teams goes towards avertising and promotion, negotiation of deals for the entire league and of course things like executive salaries. Maybe you think the salaries are too high. But its not like those salaries are exempt from income taxes. Again the thing I find hincky is the no interest loans coming from tax deductions. If that portion is never taxed as profit by anyone I do see that as a problem. But not the overall status of the league itself.
Where is the profit that the NFL should pay taxes on? They get their money from TV and merchandising deals. That money is negotiated on behalf of the teams. The money gets distributed to the teams. The operating budget comes from the teams contributions not from the sale of any product or service.
More nonsense. The bar example is incredibly parallel, and exhibits probably MORE control over its members than the NFL does of its members. Your financial interest claim is irrelevant.
Interestingly enough, in 1966 a federal court ruled that the Pepsi-Cola Bottlers’ Association could not file for 501(c)(6) status, because it was promoting a particular brand (Pepsi), rather than a business line (soft drinks). Here’s the difference between Pepsi and the NFL - I can buy stock in Pepsi. The NFL is essentially a tiny little group that organizes some football clubs to play games - and those football clubs make a tremendous amount of money. The NFL, however, doesn’t in comparison.
More irrelevent nonsense.
But I own Visa stock and receive profits from it as an owner. The NFL doesn’t have an ownership group that receives profits. Very poor comparison.
As far as I’m concerned, the NFL can promote whatever it wants. All I’m saying is that the purpose of the 501(c)(6) exemption is not to exempt the management arms of profit-making enterprises.
The PBA and FOP are pretty terrible examples, because neither represent profit-making entities. However, to the extent that they promote the interests of police officers generally, they’re the sort of groups targeted.
Well, management expense is deductible anyway, and most management happens at the team level. When you say “management arm” what do you actually mean? No business has its management arm structured as a non-profit, the management arm of the businesses are the office staff of those teams and you would not really want those separated out as a not-profit in the first place since you get to deduct their pay and benefits from your revenue. The NFL manages the relationship collectively, between all of the independent businesses that operate in the professional football business in the United States. I don’t know of any other industry with a collection of independent for-profit enterprises in which an organization that all members of the industry belong to is considered to be the “management arm” of the industry itself. Yes, the NFL is different than other trade organizations in that it has a much bigger influence on its industry than is typical but I don’t think you can make a real argument that the individual team businesses are using the NFL to manage their business. They are using the NFL to manage their industry in combination with the other industry participants.
Now, maybe the NFL is closer to a cooperative organization than a trade organization, and cooperatives can incur taxable income. My understanding is that most cooperatives, ex. agricultural co-ops, have deduction rules and methods of operation that make the cooperative’s taxable income very low to non-existent. Especially since they can rebate cash to members and those cash rebates are non-taxable. But, the rebates are taxable as income for the members, so it isn’t a tax dodge. So even if the NFL was organized along the lines of a co-op I don’t see that the total tax picture would change in any material way.
Management arm is a bad word. Call it a joint venture, then.
Let’s be clear, the NFL does not exist as a tax dodge, although some of its activities may fall under that (I am not able to fully judge that). The NFL does perform a vital and specific service to the NFL team owners, promoting the game, collective bargaining, rights fees, licensing, etc. So payments the teams make to the NFL are in fact necessary expenses and should be written off as expenses just like salaries and overhead. The NFL does not make a profit. Even if they were a for profit entity they almost certainly would show no profit, because all monies are distributed either to the teams or as operating expenses. The NFL is not owned by the teams, so it is not a disbursement to the owners. I have no idea how the TV contracts are written, but I would guess they are written in such a way that is clear that the NFL is simply an intermediary, as per their status as a non-profit. Now if you think that is tax dodge, I suppose that is your prerogative, but it is hardly an unusual arrangement.
Sure they do- maybe not in gate sales or TV revenue, but they do in terms of merchandising and licensing and things like that. In cities and towns not actually inhabited by an NFL team, you can often find merchandise from multiple teams displayed side by side.
The thing with the bar associations is that many of them are quasi-state agencies. I suspect that I couldn’t just band together a bunch of lawyers and found the “Texas State Bar” (as opposed to the actual State Bar of Texas)- it would run afoul of the actual bar being a state-granted monopoly.
Ah, but they’re not actually competing in merchandise sales. NFL teams sign over their IP rights to the league, which has sole control over NFL logo/likeness licensing. You can read about it here (it also provides an overview of the antitrust issue I mentioned).
Unless the Chamber puts aside the dues and then lets you and your business get it back in zero interest loans if you need to redo your business, I’m not sure they’re comparable. The benefits of NFL membership and their “donations” to an NFL team are way beyond anything that any lawyer, doctor, or business gets from the ABA, the AMA, or the Chamber of Commerce.
There’s two points there, though. For one, I’m not sure we’ve established they actually make 0% interest loans. For two, a no-interest loan usually has tax implications so even if they are making 0% interest loans that doesn’t necessarily mean it is an effective tax dodge as they may be required to pay tax on the loan. But, if they are in fact making 0% interest loans and no one pays tax on that money then that would seem out of sync with what I think a trade group should be allowed to do. But that would really just speak to modifying the rules so such behavior would not be permissible, not ending tax exempt status for a specific trade group in general.
Aside from the zero interest loan (which I’ve yet to see definitively shown to be going on–and I’m just saying that in hopes of someone presenting an article fully explaining it, not to say I don’t believe you) I’m not really seeing anything about the NFL that would make them seem like anything other than a big, powerful trade organization.
No, it’s not. There are two factions here: one questioning why this segment of American business - a very large, very profitable, very heavy on public funding segment - gets endless special treatment and exemptions, and faction that just doesn’t see any problem with it, cuz, you know, it’s the Cowboys/Yankees/Lakers/whatever.
Not being dead drunk on sportsophilia, I’m in the first faction.
I don’t get the loan issue. If all the money given to the NFL from the individual teams can be written off as an operating expense, and all money reinvested into stadiums can be written off as an operating expense. Isn’t the NFL just acting as way of building up larger amounts of money for reinvestment.
Don’t we usually have a way of recognizing that many larger expenses are not contained to one calendar year.