# the NFL, MLB and women **URL:** \ **Category:** The Game Room\ **Created:** [March 13, 2014, 11:41pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/the-nfl-mlb-and-women/683654 "2014-03-13T23:41:21Z")\ **Posts on this page:** 20\ **Page:** 2
**Author:** ![bucketybuck](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/b/898d66/32.png) [@bucketybuck](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/bucketybuck)\ **Post date:** [March 14, 2014, 11:54am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/the-nfl-mlb-and-women/683654/21 "2014-03-14T11:54:40Z")
> [@Incubus](#): > > A lot of posters here have touted the way European Football (ie Soccer) gets players, but I have yet to see a World Cup team that has a female player aside from the’Womens World Cup’. What do you mean by this one? What is the “Way Soccer gets players”? And why are you surprised that you don’t see female players at the world cup? Thats like wondering why there were no female players at the Superbowl. When it unlikely that you will see female players competing with men at any levels, you most certainly are unlikely to see it happen at the very elite levels. ---
**Author:** ![Southern\_Yankee](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/southern_yankee/32/2800_2.png) [@Southern\_Yankee](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Southern_Yankee)\ **Post date:** [March 14, 2014, 12:10pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/the-nfl-mlb-and-women/683654/22 "2014-03-14T12:10:30Z")
> [@EllisDee](#): > > I could see a woman playing like a Chad Pennington. I’m not sure if it was intentional, but that made me laugh out loud… ---
**Author:** ![Telemark](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/telemark/32/372_2.png) [@Telemark](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Telemark)\ **Post date:** [March 14, 2014, 12:23pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/the-nfl-mlb-and-women/683654/23 "2014-03-14T12:23:46Z")
> [@obbn](#): > > No, not now at 46, but in her prime I have a feeling she wouldn’t have fared too bad. No, she would have fared horribly. The difference between the skills of even a AAA player and the general public is vast. She simply never faced anything like professional baseball pitching. > [@obbn](#): > > My thought is that she’s really good, but I bet there are a hundred or even thousands of women out there even better. I would think that there are a few women softball/baseball players in this country that could make it to The Show. My question is there not even one in the US good enough or are women not welcomed in the big leagues. Short answer is 1) there might be an extremely small number of women who could play a very limited roll in MLB (such as the aforementioned knuckleball pitcher in the AL) and 2) they would have to pay their dues in the minor leagues for a long time to prove themselves, but if they could give value they would be looked at. > [@obbn](#): > > However, baseball doesn’t have the physical contact that football does, so I would think there is at least one lady out there with the skills to make it. Baseball skills are also tied to physical attributes. Baseball is still a physical game, and wins and losses are decided by inches. ---
**Author:** ![cmkeller](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/cmkeller/32/118_2.png) [@cmkeller](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/cmkeller)\ **Post date:** [March 14, 2014, 1:35pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/the-nfl-mlb-and-women/683654/24 "2014-03-14T13:35:58Z")
The AA Jacksonville Suns had a woman, Pam Davis (a member of the barnstorming women’s team Colorado Silver Bullets), pitch an inning in 1996. It obviously was a stunt rather than an attempt at a career in men’s pro baseball, but at the very least, it would seem to prove that there’s no official rule against women playing on a men’s pro baseball team. ---
**Author:** ![RickJay](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/r/bb73d2/32.png) [@RickJay](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/RickJay)\ **Post date:** [March 14, 2014, 1:52pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/the-nfl-mlb-and-women/683654/25 "2014-03-14T13:52:57Z")
> [@cmkeller](#): > > The AA Jacksonville Suns had a woman, Pam Davis (a member of the barnstorming women’s team Colorado Silver Bullets), pitch an inning in 1996. It obviously was a stunt rather than an attempt at a career in men’s pro baseball, but at the very least, it would seem to prove that there’s no official rule against women playing on a men’s pro baseball team. Well, even if there was, MLB would not be stupid enough to enforce it. And if they were stupid enough to enforce it the courts would strike it down so fast it’d be as if it was never there. If a woman actually gets good enough to get an MLB team to want her on a contract, she’ll be on a contract. ---
**Author:** ![Bellhorn](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/b/898d66/32.png) [@Bellhorn](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Bellhorn)\ **Post date:** [March 14, 2014, 2:18pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/the-nfl-mlb-and-women/683654/26 "2014-03-14T14:18:58Z")
Pro sports is just getting too specialized, in both training and technique, for a women to overcome the physiological disadvantages. I played ball with and against baseball players that were just incredible and I felt that they all had a chance at being MLB players, but none even came close. I’m sure a top female athlete could compete in small college program, but they’d never be close to being considered for professional baseball. You not only have to be at the top physically, but you need to have a near-perfect technique, and have a body that will sustain the physical-strain and wear-and-tear that playing/training puts on the body. For instance, even if a woman perfected a knuckleball in a mid-college program, I doubt if their arm would hold up over time. I guess it’s possible that 60-70 years ago, someone like Babe Didrickson Zaharias could have competed at the margins of pro-baseball, but that’s only because the technical and training aspects of baseball were far less demanding that today. 11 years ago, this May, Annika Sorenstam competed in the Men’s PGA event, the Colonial. She missed the cut, finishing 96th out of 107. She had chosen that tournament because it was one of the shortest courses on the tour. But still, her problem was that she didn’t drive as far as the men off the tee, and had to use longer irons off the fairway, or didn’t have the power to hit it far enough out of the rough. Annika may not have been a large woman, but she was incredibly fit and had back muscles that were amazing for her build. She was also mentally tough, had great technique and was at the peak of her career. She was given a sponsor’s exemption into the event, (which pissed off some of the men) but I do think that if she were willing to play in the PGA qualifying school, she’d have had a shot at making the tour, after 2 or 3 tries perhaps, and maybe even a 50% shot at holding on to her card. But, Annika was the best, IMO, and I believe Golf to be an easier sport for women than baseball. ---
**Author:** ![Colibri](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/colibri/32/1841_2.png) [@Colibri](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Colibri)\ **Post date:** [March 14, 2014, 3:23pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/the-nfl-mlb-and-women/683654/27 "2014-03-14T15:23:14Z")
> [@obbn](#): > > My thought is that she’s really good, but I bet there are a hundred or even thousands of women out there even better. I would think that there are a few women softball/baseball players in this country that could make it to The Show. My question is there not even one in the US good enough or are women not welcomed in the big leagues. If we take the figure as the 40-man roster, there are around 1200 MLB players who get into a game each season. This is out of the combined population of the US, Canada, Japan, and several countries in Latin America, or a pool of roughly 200 million males. We’re talking about odds on the order of 10,000 to 1 for making a MLB roster. While there is overlap among average and even very good males and females in their ability to play baseball, those who make it to the MLB are at the extreme upper end of the curve. These extreme levels will include few if any females. As has been mentioned, making the MLB requires not only the physical ability, but also having practiced against the best competition from an early age. Given the odds, it’s likely that no women qualify. If a woman were capable, I think at least one MLB team would be likely to give her a look if only for the publicity and PR value. ---
**Author:** ![iiandyiiii](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/iiandyiiii/32/7924_2.png) [@iiandyiiii](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/iiandyiiii)\ **Post date:** [March 14, 2014, 4:08pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/the-nfl-mlb-and-women/683654/28 "2014-03-14T16:08:27Z")
IIRC, the world records for men’s Olympic weightlifting for the smallest weight class (around 105 lbs, I think), are higher than the world records for women’s Olympic weightlifting for _every_ weight class. So a very small man who is among the strongest for his size may be stronger than _every woman on earth_. ---
**Author:** ![Thudlow\_Boink](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/thudlow_boink/32/320_2.png) [@Thudlow\_Boink](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Thudlow_Boink)\ **Post date:** [March 14, 2014, 4:45pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/the-nfl-mlb-and-women/683654/29 "2014-03-14T16:45:44Z")
> [@obbn](#): > > No, not now at 46, but in her prime I have a feeling she wouldn’t have fared too bad. She was a hell of a hitter in college. But I really wasn’t posing the question “Is my wife good enough for MBL”. My thought is that she’s really good, but I bet there are a hundred or even thousands of women out there even better. I would think that there are a few women softball/baseball players in this country that could make it to The Show. My question is there not even one in the US good enough or are women not welcomed in the big leagues. Since nobody starts out in the major leagues, it would be more useful to ask if there have been any women who have competed on men’s baseball teams at a lower level (college, minor leagues, etc.). ---
**Author:** ![Bellhorn](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/b/898d66/32.png) [@Bellhorn](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Bellhorn)\ **Post date:** [March 14, 2014, 4:49pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/the-nfl-mlb-and-women/683654/30 "2014-03-14T16:49:16Z")
> [@Colibri](#): > > …If a woman were capable, I think at least one MLB team > would be likely to give her a look if only for the publicity and PR value. And if Bill Veeck were still alive and owned a team, you can bet that Jenny Finch would have pitched for him in a late-season game. ---
**Author:** ![Telemark](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/telemark/32/372_2.png) [@Telemark](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Telemark)\ **Post date:** [March 14, 2014, 4:53pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/the-nfl-mlb-and-women/683654/31 "2014-03-14T16:53:55Z")
> [@iiandyiiii](#): > > IIRC, the world records for men’s Olympic weightlifting for the smallest weight class (around 105 lbs, I think), are higher than the world records for women’s Olympic weightlifting for _every_ weight class. Not true - the women’s 75KG+ records beat the mens 56kg and 62kg records. It’s a bit difficult to compare since the weight classes are so different - the heaviest women’s weight classes (75KG+) are in the middle of the men’s weight classes. Women are quite a bit behind men in their strength levels, but it’s not quite as bad as you make it out to be. > **[List of Olympic records in weightlifting](https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/List_of_Olympic_records_in_weightlifting)** > > This is the list of Olympic records in weightlifting. Records are maintained in each weight class for the snatch lift, clean and jerk lift, and the total for both lifts. > The weight classes for men on the Olympic program were adjusted for the 2000 Games, so Olympic records only exist based on the results during and after that. Women's weightlifting made its Olympic debut at the 2000 Games in Sydney, with seven weight classes that have not changed since. > ♦ denotes a performance that is also a c... ---
**Author:** ![Amateur\_Barbarian](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/a/59ef9b/32.png) [@Amateur\_Barbarian](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Amateur_Barbarian)\ **Post date:** [March 14, 2014, 5:03pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/the-nfl-mlb-and-women/683654/32 "2014-03-14T17:03:39Z")
Is there any sport or athletic event with unambiguous scoring where women match or exceed men’s scores? (That would exclude most team sports; the score between two women’s teams and two men’s teams are irrelevant to each other. Also judged sports like figure skating, where the competition is only among the same gender. I guess this gets into things like running, shooting, and other absolutely-scored individual efforts, and there’s unlikely to be a yes answer except in activities relying more on skill than strength or endurance.) ---
**Author:** ![iiandyiiii](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/iiandyiiii/32/7924_2.png) [@iiandyiiii](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/iiandyiiii)\ **Post date:** [March 14, 2014, 5:13pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/the-nfl-mlb-and-women/683654/33 "2014-03-14T17:13:38Z")
> [@Telemark](#): > > Not true - the women’s 75KG+ records beat the mens 56kg and 62kg records. It’s a bit difficult to compare since the weight classes are so different - the heaviest women’s weight classes (75KG+) are in the middle of the men’s weight classes. > > Women are quite a bit behind men in their strength levels, but it’s not quite as bad as you make it out to be. > > [List of Olympic records in weightlifting - Wikipedia](http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/List_of_Olympic_records_in_weightlifting) Thank you (and I should have verified it myself before posting!). I may have gotten that from an old Guinness world record book I remember seeing – perhaps women’s weightlifting was not as mature a sport when I first saw it, so the records did not reflect the ultimate limits women could achieve. ---
**Author:** ![Telemark](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/telemark/32/372_2.png) [@Telemark](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Telemark)\ **Post date:** [March 14, 2014, 5:17pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/the-nfl-mlb-and-women/683654/34 "2014-03-14T17:17:51Z")
> [@iiandyiiii](#): > > perhaps women’s weightlifting was not as mature a sport when I first saw it, so the records did not reflect the ultimate limits women could achieve. Women’s weight lifting is still a very immature sport. The records are advancing fairly quickly right now. If you go outside the Olympics the numbers are much different - but the use of PEDs by both genders renders those records fairly suspect. ---
**Author:** ![Telemark](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/telemark/32/372_2.png) [@Telemark](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Telemark)\ **Post date:** [March 14, 2014, 5:18pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/the-nfl-mlb-and-women/683654/35 "2014-03-14T17:18:58Z")
> [@Amateur\_Barbarian](#): > > Is there any sport or athletic event with unambiguous scoring where women match or exceed men’s scores? Childbirth, for one. ---
**Author:** ![jonesj2205](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/j/ecc23a/32.png) [@jonesj2205](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/jonesj2205)\ **Post date:** [March 14, 2014, 5:37pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/the-nfl-mlb-and-women/683654/36 "2014-03-14T17:37:21Z")
> [@Bellhorn](#): > > And if Bill Veeck were still alive and owned a team, you can bet that Jenny Finch would have pitched for him in a late-season game. Only if Bud Selig waived the rules and let her use her normal motion (pretty unlikely). Otherwise she’d get be shelled so hard it wouldn’t even be a fun gimmick. ---
**Author:** ![friendlessboob](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/f/71c47a/32.png) [@friendlessboob](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/friendlessboob)\ **Post date:** [March 14, 2014, 8:19pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/the-nfl-mlb-and-women/683654/37 "2014-03-14T20:19:59Z")
> [@iiandyiiii](#): > > IIRC, the world records for men’s Olympic weightlifting for the smallest weight class (around 105 lbs, I think), are higher than the world records for women’s Olympic weightlifting for _every_ weight class. So a very small man who is among the strongest for his size may be stronger than _every woman on earth_. picking nits, just checked and that is not correct, most weight for smallest weight class (123 KG) record for men is 305 KG (total) and most weight for heaviest weight class (over 75 KG) is 333 Kg (total) granted it is close, so the small guy is almost as strong as the strongest woman crap, should have read the rest of the thread, has already been pointed out ---
**Author:** ![Just\_Asking\_Questions](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/j/ba9def/32.png) [@Just\_Asking\_Questions](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Just_Asking_Questions)\ **Post date:** [March 14, 2014, 8:53pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/the-nfl-mlb-and-women/683654/38 "2014-03-14T20:53:56Z")
> [@Amateur\_Barbarian](#): > > Is there any sport or athletic event with unambiguous scoring where women match or exceed men’s scores? One. Drag racing. Shirley Muldowney was a three-time Top Fuel champion. I think that auto racing is the only sport where there is no difference in the competition between men and women. ---
**Author:** ![Bellhorn](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/b/898d66/32.png) [@Bellhorn](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Bellhorn)\ **Post date:** [March 14, 2014, 9:22pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/the-nfl-mlb-and-women/683654/39 "2014-03-14T21:22:41Z")
> [@Amateur\_Barbarian](#): > > Is there any sport or athletic event with unambiguous scoring where women match or exceed men’s scores?.. [Table Tossing?](http://thoughtcatalog.files.wordpress.com/2013/02/anigif_enhanced-buzz-5913-1361979074-2.gif?w=584) ---
**Author:** ![StusBlues](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/s/dc4da7/32.png) [@StusBlues](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/StusBlues)\ **Post date:** [March 14, 2014, 9:30pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/the-nfl-mlb-and-women/683654/40 "2014-03-14T21:30:23Z")
I’ve considered this before in terms of baseball. I’m thinking that a great all-around athlete softball player - the kind of player who is a star shortstop in between starts as the ace pitcher - could probably have an MLB career as a knuckleballer. The knuckler is a very difficult pitch to learn, but a great female athlete - who could presumably field her position as well as most MLB pitchers and generate decent velocity when switching up from the knuckler - would have a shot, seeing as the vast majority of what she did wouldn’t depend on being stronger and faster than her opponents. That’s the best shot I can think of. [Previous page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/the-nfl-mlb-and-women/683654.md?page=1) [Next page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/the-nfl-mlb-and-women/683654.md?page=3)