# The NFL’s Penalty Flag Problem **URL:** \ **Category:** The Game Room\ **Created:** [January 15, 2015, 2:52pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/the-nfl-s-penalty-flag-problem/709892 "2015-01-15T14:52:44Z")\ **Posts on this page:** 20\ **Page:** 1
**Author:** ![davidw](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/d/c4cdca/32.png) [@davidw](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/davidw)\ **Post date:** [January 15, 2015, 2:52pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/the-nfl-s-penalty-flag-problem/709892/1 "2015-01-15T14:52:44Z")
I never actually thought of this as a problem, but [this Grantland column](http://grantland.com/the-triangle/how-wed-fix-it-the-nfls-penalty-flag-problem/) makes perfect sense to me. Here are the money quotes: > [@](#): > > But unlike other sports, football’s penalties commonly occur amid play and do not stop the action. That usually leaves a strange interval between the time a flag is thrown and the time that the charges are explained. During this window, fans are left wondering what happened and announcers freely speculate on the call. In the information age, this “flag lag” is one of the most annoying parts of the whole football experience. And it’s unnecessary. > [@](#): > > Football needs two different colored penalty flags — one color for offensive infractions and a separate color for defensive ones. Imagine that Harvin play unfolding in a parallel universe where black flags signify defensive penalties and the traditional yellow flags are reserved for offensive infractions. As Harvin crossed the 20-yard line and the flag was thrown, spectators, announcers, players, and coaches would all immediately recognize the guilty side, and consequently their emotions wouldn’t be held hostage by some unneeded informational embargo. What do you guys think? ---
**Author:** ![BobLibDem](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/boblibdem/32/3149_2.png) [@BobLibDem](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/BobLibDem)\ **Post date:** [January 15, 2015, 2:57pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/the-nfl-s-penalty-flag-problem/709892/2 "2015-01-15T14:57:27Z")
Too complicated. I think this is a solution in search of a problem. ---
**Author:** ![bucketybuck](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/b/898d66/32.png) [@bucketybuck](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/bucketybuck)\ **Post date:** [January 15, 2015, 3:00pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/the-nfl-s-penalty-flag-problem/709892/3 "2015-01-15T15:00:13Z")
> [@BobLibDem](#): > > Too complicated. I think this is a solution in search of a problem. Complicated? Two different coloured flags is complicated? ---
**Author:** ![howye](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/h/a9adbd/32.png) [@howye](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/howye)\ **Post date:** [January 15, 2015, 3:01pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/the-nfl-s-penalty-flag-problem/709892/4 "2015-01-15T15:01:11Z")
Confining my response to just the problems the NFL has, this is the smallest of non-problems. Did somebody need a column and this is the best they could come up with? So an official is supposed to watch a play, keep the entire rulebook in his head, make a split second decision on something they only get to see once, AND pull the right color of flag out? What happens when the wrong color is thrown and the players had acted in reliance on that flag? Beyond the operational issues, who the hell has this problem? “Informational embargo”? ---
**Author:** ![DCnDC](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/dcndc/32/2842_2.png) [@DCnDC](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/DCnDC)\ **Post date:** [January 15, 2015, 3:02pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/the-nfl-s-penalty-flag-problem/709892/5 "2015-01-15T15:02:41Z")
Unnecessary. Unless they’re going to have a distinct flag for every possible infraction, their solution still doesn’t solve the trivial “problem” they’re describing. ---
**Author:** ![CAMJAY77](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/c/5fc32e/32.png) [@CAMJAY77](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/CAMJAY77)\ **Post date:** [January 15, 2015, 3:06pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/the-nfl-s-penalty-flag-problem/709892/6 "2015-01-15T15:06:52Z")
Wrong color flags would be thrown all the time imo. Where would the refs keep the flags on themselves? One on the left and one on the right? I bet the majority of them can’t throw very good with their off hand. Flags would be lying nowhere near where the penalty occurred. ---
**Author:** ![Chronos](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/chronos/32/134_2.png) [@Chronos](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Chronos)\ **Post date:** [January 15, 2015, 3:07pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/the-nfl-s-penalty-flag-problem/709892/7 "2015-01-15T15:07:34Z")
Eh, I can see how it’d make a difference in some cases. If your team gets a touchdown, and there’s a flag on the play, currently you’re left wondering whether the score was good or not. If it turns out to have been a penalty on the defense, though, you can rest easy knowing that whatever it was, it’s just going to be declined. It’s still a very minor problem, and probably not one worth worrying about. ---
**Author:** ![yellowjacketcoder](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/y/4bbf92/32.png) [@yellowjacketcoder](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/yellowjacketcoder)\ **Post date:** [January 15, 2015, 3:11pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/the-nfl-s-penalty-flag-problem/709892/8 "2015-01-15T15:11:04Z")
I think another issue would be how players react on seeing a flag. As it is now, you keep playing hard because if the flag is on the other team, it’s a free play if you do better than the penalty. If you know a flag is on your team, you stop playing (I know they are supposed to be professionals, but they are human). When the wrong flag gets throw or it’s a “there’s no penalty on the play” if the flag was thrown in error (which happens now), it’s gonna really suck if the player stopped playing for no reason. Besides, the delay builds anticipation, and it’s not like people don’t cheer when someone crosses the goal line even if a flag was throw 50 yards away. ---
**Author:** ![BobLibDem](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/boblibdem/32/3149_2.png) [@BobLibDem](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/BobLibDem)\ **Post date:** [January 15, 2015, 3:43pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/the-nfl-s-penalty-flag-problem/709892/9 "2015-01-15T15:43:47Z")
> [@bucketybuck](#): > > Complicated? Two different coloured flags is complicated? Yep. You can almost guarantee that they’ll throw the wrong color some times. I’m not seeing a problem to be solved. ---
**Author:** ![Telemark](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/telemark/32/372_2.png) [@Telemark](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Telemark)\ **Post date:** [January 15, 2015, 4:36pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/the-nfl-s-penalty-flag-problem/709892/10 "2015-01-15T16:36:20Z")
> [@BobLibDem](#): > > Yep. You can almost guarantee that they’ll throw the wrong color some times. I’m not seeing a problem to be solved. For the ref watching the receivers he’s going to make a split second decision on whether something is offensive or defensive PI, and then make sure he picks the right flag before throwing it. It will add delay between the time he sees a penalty and throws the flag which is detrimental to the process, and they’re still going to make mistakes. I agree with others, solution in search of a non-problem. ---
**Author:** ![Procrustus](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/procrustus/32/2994_2.png) [@Procrustus](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Procrustus)\ **Post date:** [January 15, 2015, 4:43pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/the-nfl-s-penalty-flag-problem/709892/11 "2015-01-15T16:43:19Z")
During that “time lag” while we’re all waiting to hear the penalty explained, the refs sometimes huddle and try to figure out exactly what the situation is. ---
**Author:** ![Loach](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/loach/32/350_2.png) [@Loach](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Loach)\ **Post date:** [January 15, 2015, 4:54pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/the-nfl-s-penalty-flag-problem/709892/12 "2015-01-15T16:54:50Z")
> [@Procrustus](#): > > During that “time lag” while we’re all waiting to hear the penalty explained, the refs sometimes huddle and try to figure out exactly what the situation is. Exactly. Sometimes with different perspectives they change their thinking. What if it looked like defensive interference from one angle but the other official had a better angle and saw the push off? Sometimes that time lag is needed. ---
**Author:** ![garygnu](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/garygnu/32/2924_2.png) [@garygnu](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/garygnu)\ **Post date:** [January 15, 2015, 5:19pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/the-nfl-s-penalty-flag-problem/709892/13 "2015-01-15T17:19:27Z")
I often see flags accidentally thrown when a player fumbles instead of the correct beanbag. Adding yet another thing on the refs’ belts just so fans can know they’re OK to cheer a touchdown? Silly. ---
**Author:** ![MOIDALIZE](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/m/e274bd/32.png) [@MOIDALIZE](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/MOIDALIZE)\ **Post date:** [January 15, 2015, 5:35pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/the-nfl-s-penalty-flag-problem/709892/14 "2015-01-15T17:35:19Z")
I don’t know… > [@NFL Playoffs Division Weekend](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/nfl-playoffs-division-weekend/709426/170): > > I have to say, I’m not a fan of this suggestion from [Kirk Goldsberry](http://grantland.com/the-triangle/how-wed-fix-it-the-nfls-penalty-flag-problem/), to make the refs throw different colored flags depending on if the penalty is on the offense or the defense. > > Because you know what really gives me goosebumps during a game? When Jeff Tripplette throws a ticky-tack flag on the defense during a stellar touchdown play, so that the crowd is nice and subdued while we wait for the refs to confer and Tripplette to finally announce the penalty that will be declined. I just love watching referees work! ---
**Author:** ![Barkis\_is\_Willin](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/b/a183cd/32.png) [@Barkis\_is\_Willin](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Barkis_is_Willin)\ **Post date:** [January 15, 2015, 5:38pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/the-nfl-s-penalty-flag-problem/709892/15 "2015-01-15T17:38:20Z")
Two different colored flags results in not much benefit, but a high likelihood of throwing the wrong color. I will say that some plays should die the moment a penalty occurs. Holding or block in the bck during a kickoff? Blow it dead on the spot. I almost want to say blow it dead for holding, etc. during a regular offensive play, too, but I’d like to see stats on how frequently the defense declines the penalty in favor of the result of the play. How many times have you seen a kickoff returned or a big offensive play that just keeps going and you know it’s coming back due to penalty? Blowing it dead would speed up the game and mitigate unnecessary injury risk when players keep playing hard despite the flag. ---
**Author:** ![YogSothoth](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/y/8edcca/32.png) [@YogSothoth](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/YogSothoth)\ **Post date:** [January 15, 2015, 5:55pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/the-nfl-s-penalty-flag-problem/709892/16 "2015-01-15T17:55:02Z")
Its only a few seconds, let them speculate on the penalty ---
**Author:** ![yellowjacketcoder](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/y/4bbf92/32.png) [@yellowjacketcoder](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/yellowjacketcoder)\ **Post date:** [January 15, 2015, 6:02pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/the-nfl-s-penalty-flag-problem/709892/17 "2015-01-15T18:02:30Z")
> [@Barkis\_is\_Willin](#): > > I will say that some plays should die the moment a penalty occurs. This I agree with entirely. Injury risk is the big one for me, but you’re right it’s also a waste of time. Plus, then the team doesn’t have the guy that ran the 90 yard return for the next play because he’s tired as crap. ---
**Author:** ![TroutMan](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/troutman/32/6721_2.png) [@TroutMan](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/TroutMan)\ **Post date:** [January 15, 2015, 6:04pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/the-nfl-s-penalty-flag-problem/709892/18 "2015-01-15T18:04:43Z")
> [@Barkis\_is\_Willin](#): > > How many times have you seen a kickoff returned or a big offensive play that just keeps going and you know it’s coming back due to penalty? Blowing it dead would speed up the game and mitigate unnecessary injury risk when players keep playing hard despite the flag. Sometimes those plays work out better for the defense, the best example being a fumble they recover. Cutting off the play early would eliminate that possibility. It doesn’t happen often, but it does happen. And I agree with the rest, it would never work due to frequent mistakes. And even if it worked perfectly, it’s a dumb idea. It isn’t diminishing anyone’s enjoyment of the game. I doubt the column writer even cares either - **howye** is right, he needed to fill some space. ---
**Author:** ![ZenBeam](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/z/3ab097/32.png) [@ZenBeam](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/ZenBeam)\ **Post date:** [January 15, 2015, 6:09pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/the-nfl-s-penalty-flag-problem/709892/19 "2015-01-15T18:09:54Z")
> [@Barkis\_is\_Willin](#): > > I will say that some plays should die the moment a penalty occurs. Holding or block in the bck during a kickoff? Blow it dead on the spot. I almost want to say blow it dead for holding, etc. during a regular offensive play, too, but I’d like to see stats on how frequently the defense declines the penalty in favor of the result of the play. You could give the Refs discretion on when to blow the play dead, based on when it’s obvious the penalty would be accepted. Offensive holding, but the QB is still scrambling in the back field, maybe he’ll get sacked or maybe it’s fourth down and they won’t make the first down line. But if he breaks free for a big gain, or they make the first down, then they can blow it. ---
**Author:** ![Pleonast](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/pleonast/32/1183_2.png) [@Pleonast](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Pleonast)\ **Post date:** [January 15, 2015, 6:11pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/the-nfl-s-penalty-flag-problem/709892/20 "2015-01-15T18:11:58Z")
“During this window, fans are left wondering what happened and announcers freely speculate on the call.” That’s a feature, not a bug. It’s fun to talk about what just happened. [Next page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/the-nfl-s-penalty-flag-problem/709892.md?page=2)