# The NFL’s Penalty Flag Problem **URL:** \ **Category:** The Game Room\ **Created:** [January 15, 2015, 2:52pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/the-nfl-s-penalty-flag-problem/709892 "2015-01-15T14:52:44Z")\ **Posts on this page:** 20\ **Page:** 2
**Author:** ![TroutMan](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/troutman/32/6721_2.png) [@TroutMan](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/TroutMan)\ **Post date:** [January 15, 2015, 6:18pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/the-nfl-s-penalty-flag-problem/709892/21 "2015-01-15T18:18:05Z")
When the offense lines up for a play, sometimes I don’t know if they’re going to pass or run. I’m left wondering what’s going to happen and announcers freely speculate on the play. The play has already been called in to the quarterback; in this information age it would be trivial to include the broadcaster in the feed so viewers wouldn’t have to wait so damn long. ---
**Author:** ![IvoryTowerDenizen](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/ivorytowerdenizen/32/17937_2.png) [@IvoryTowerDenizen](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/IvoryTowerDenizen)\ **Post date:** [January 15, 2015, 6:19pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/the-nfl-s-penalty-flag-problem/709892/22 "2015-01-15T18:19:58Z")
> [@BobLibDem](#): > > Too complicated. I think this is a solution in search of a problem. Not to mention that speculation and guessing the penalty is half the fun when watching at home. ---
**Author:** ![That\_Don\_Guy](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/that_don_guy/32/538_2.png) [@That\_Don\_Guy](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/That_Don_Guy)\ **Post date:** [January 15, 2015, 6:36pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/the-nfl-s-penalty-flag-problem/709892/23 "2015-01-15T18:36:35Z")
> [@Barkis\_is\_Willin](#): > > I will say that some plays should die the moment a penalty occurs. Holding or block in the bck during a kickoff? Blow it dead on the spot. I almost want to say blow it dead for holding, etc. during a regular offensive play, too, but I’d like to see stats on how frequently the defense declines the penalty in favor of the result of the play. > > How many times have you seen a kickoff returned or a big offensive play that just keeps going and you know it’s coming back due to penalty? Blowing it dead would speed up the game and mitigate unnecessary injury risk when players keep playing hard despite the flag. As somebody else already pointed out, blowing it dead also negates the chance of the returning player fumbling the ball and the kicking team recovering - or, for that matter, of the kicking team committing an offsetting penalty. Another problem with blowing plays dead when a penalty occurs; what if the flag is picked up? You then have an inadvertent whistle situation. (I’m not sure what the NFL rule is, but in college and high school, if a whistle is blown inadvertently while the ball is in player possession, the team in possession can either take the result of the play with the ball at the point where the whistle blew, or replay the down.) ---
**Author:** ![TreacherousCretin](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/treacherouscretin/32/476_2.png) [@TreacherousCretin](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/TreacherousCretin)\ **Post date:** [January 15, 2015, 6:54pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/the-nfl-s-penalty-flag-problem/709892/24 "2015-01-15T18:54:12Z")
They wouldn’t be able to stop at two flag colors. They’d certainly have to add pink flags during the Breast Cancer Awareness games. ---
**Author:** ![Great\_Antibob](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/g/e47c2d/32.png) [@Great\_Antibob](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Great_Antibob)\ **Post date:** [January 15, 2015, 6:58pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/the-nfl-s-penalty-flag-problem/709892/25 "2015-01-15T18:58:52Z")
> [@TreacherousCretin](#): > > They’d certainly have to add pink flags during the Breast Cancer Awareness games. They did that for a week in October 2013. Too much confusion between the pink flags, pink towels, pink shoes, etc, so the NFL announced no more pink flags for the rest of the month. I love how often “solutions” to “problems” end up (1) creating more problems and (2) don’t solve a damned thing. ---
**Author:** ![Barkis\_is\_Willin](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/b/a183cd/32.png) [@Barkis\_is\_Willin](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Barkis_is_Willin)\ **Post date:** [January 15, 2015, 9:16pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/the-nfl-s-penalty-flag-problem/709892/26 "2015-01-15T21:16:02Z")
> [@That\_Don\_Guy](#): > > As somebody else already pointed out, blowing it dead also negates the chance of the returning player fumbling the ball and the kicking team recovering - or, for that matter, of the kicking team committing an offsetting penalty. > > Another problem with blowing plays dead when a penalty occurs; what if the flag is picked up? You then have an inadvertent whistle situation. (I’m not sure what the NFL rule is, but in college and high school, if a whistle is blown inadvertently while the ball is in player possession, the team in possession can either take the result of the play with the ball at the point where the whistle blew, or replay the down.) I think a subsequent fumble or the flag being picked up happens infrequently enough that the benefit outweighs the risk. ---
**Author:** ![DCnDC](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/dcndc/32/2842_2.png) [@DCnDC](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/DCnDC)\ **Post date:** [January 15, 2015, 9:23pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/the-nfl-s-penalty-flag-problem/709892/27 "2015-01-15T21:23:11Z")
> [@Great\_Antibob](#): > > I love how often “solutions” to “problems” end up (1) creating more problems and (2) don’t solve a damned thing. That’s how I see it. Even if this were a real problem, any solution involving extra flags or whatever would simply be a dozen more chances for a game to be decided (i.e. screwed up) by the refs. No thank you. ---
**Author:** ![magnusblitz](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/m/b4bc9f/32.png) [@magnusblitz](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/magnusblitz)\ **Post date:** [January 16, 2015, 8:56pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/the-nfl-s-penalty-flag-problem/709892/28 "2015-01-16T20:56:09Z")
> [@yellowjacketcoder](#): > > I think another issue would be how players react on seeing a flag. As it is now, you keep playing hard because if the flag is on the other team, it’s a free play if you do better than the penalty. If you know a flag is on your team, you stop playing (I know they are supposed to be professionals, but they are human). When the wrong flag gets throw or it’s a “there’s no penalty on the play” if the flag was thrown in error (which happens now), it’s gonna really suck if the player stopped playing for no reason. I think “how players react” is somewhat the point. If you’re the QB and you see a defense-colored flag thrown at the start of the play, you know you can take the chance and throw it deep, because you’ll either get a big play or an offsides penalty at worst. If you see a offense-colored flag, then you might as well just spike it or throw the ball out of bounds and avoid getting hit. I also agree that having two-different colored flags would probably lead to a lot of scenarios where the ref throws the wrong flag and causes a screw-up. ---
**Author:** ![Ike\_Witt](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/ike_witt/32/283_2.png) [@Ike\_Witt](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Ike_Witt)\ **Post date:** [January 16, 2015, 10:40pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/the-nfl-s-penalty-flag-problem/709892/29 "2015-01-16T22:40:10Z")
I just want to point out that not all hockey penalties stop the play. ---
**Author:** ![Quercus](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/q/7ab992/32.png) [@Quercus](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Quercus)\ **Post date:** [January 16, 2015, 10:42pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/the-nfl-s-penalty-flag-problem/709892/30 "2015-01-16T22:42:55Z")
> [@magnusblitz](#): > > I think “how players react” is somewhat the point. If you’re the QB and […] you see a offense-colored flag, then you might as well just spike it or throw the ball out of bounds and avoid getting hit. Not necessarily. The defense might prefer an incompletion to the penalty. For instance, if it was third and four in your half of the field. They’d certainly decline the penalty, preferring 4th and 4 with you punting, than 3rd and 8 or 3rd and 14 with a chance for you to pick up the first down. So in many situations you’re going to want to keep playing in hopes of getting a result the defense doesn’t like better than the penalty. Not that I think the multi-colored flags are a sane idea, of course. Just can’t resist some Irrelevant Dope Nitpicking ™. ---
**Author:** ![Pasta](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/p/ecccb3/32.png) [@Pasta](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Pasta)\ **Post date:** [January 17, 2015, 3:26am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/the-nfl-s-penalty-flag-problem/709892/31 "2015-01-17T03:26:29Z")
“One of the most annoying parts of the whole football experience” seems a wild bit of exaggeration. For 90% of flags thrown, a knowledgeable fan will know right away what the penalty was, and even if they weren’t watching the action that closely they should be able to tell 80% of the time just from the flag’s timing and location on the field. ---
**Author:** ![Boogly](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/b/f4b2a3/32.png) [@Boogly](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Boogly)\ **Post date:** [January 17, 2015, 4:07am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/the-nfl-s-penalty-flag-problem/709892/32 "2015-01-17T04:07:02Z")
About the only reason I find penalties annoying is when they are long enough to jam in a commercial or two. I’ve had enough chicken parmie to last the next couple decades. ---
**Author:** ![That\_Don\_Guy](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/that_don_guy/32/538_2.png) [@That\_Don\_Guy](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/That_Don_Guy)\ **Post date:** [January 17, 2015, 8:03pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/the-nfl-s-penalty-flag-problem/709892/33 "2015-01-17T20:03:58Z")
> [@Ike\_Witt](#): > > I just want to point out that not all hockey penalties stop the play. All penalties against the team in possession of the puck do, don’t they? If there’s a breakaway, but an offensive player trips somebody behind the play, it’s blown dead immediately. IIRC, there’s a similar “delayed penalty” rule in lacrosse. ---
**Author:** ![Hal\_Briston](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/h/a9a28c/32.png) [@Hal\_Briston](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Hal_Briston)\ **Post date:** [January 17, 2015, 11:30pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/the-nfl-s-penalty-flag-problem/709892/34 "2015-01-17T23:30:32Z")
> [@Boogly](#): > > I’ve had enough chicken parmie to last the next couple decades. But it tastes so good… ---
**Author:** ![Saint\_Cad](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/saint_cad/32/18907_2.png) [@Saint\_Cad](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Saint_Cad)\ **Post date:** [January 19, 2015, 10:00pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/the-nfl-s-penalty-flag-problem/709892/35 "2015-01-19T22:00:31Z")
> [@TroutMan](#): > > When the offense lines up for a play, sometimes I don’t know if they’re going to pass or run. I’m left wondering what’s going to happen and announcers freely speculate on the play. The play has already been called in to the quarterback; in this information age it would be trivial to include the broadcaster in the feed so viewers wouldn’t have to wait so damn long. I think the coach should have four color flags, one for a pass play and one for a run play and one for a special teams play and one for a trick play so we know what’s going on. It’s twice as good as the OP’s suggestion. ---
**Author:** ![Saint\_Cad](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/saint_cad/32/18907_2.png) [@Saint\_Cad](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Saint_Cad)\ **Post date:** [January 19, 2015, 10:03pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/the-nfl-s-penalty-flag-problem/709892/36 "2015-01-19T22:03:41Z")
I do like how during Super Bowl XL they had different color flags for the team that committed the penalty. I remember the yellow flags were used for Seahawk penalties. I forget which ones were used for Steeler penalties. Anyways I think that’s what the OP is getting at. ---
**Author:** ![garygnu](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/garygnu/32/2924_2.png) [@garygnu](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/garygnu)\ **Post date:** [January 19, 2015, 10:12pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/the-nfl-s-penalty-flag-problem/709892/37 "2015-01-19T22:12:12Z")
For Steeler penalties in that game they just raised both hands into the air. ---
**Author:** ![Enright3](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/enright3/32/2897_2.png) [@Enright3](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Enright3)\ **Post date:** [February 3, 2015, 8:24pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/the-nfl-s-penalty-flag-problem/709892/38 "2015-02-03T20:24:39Z")
Two colors would be a problem Heck they already have two colors if you count the white beanbag that refs carry to mark spots. There already are dead ball fouls and live ball fouls. Killing a play in action could hurt the team that is to gain from the penalty. What if the ball was fumbled, for example, and run back for a TD. I don’t remember what thread it was in here on the SDMB; but a user pointed out that football isn’t a continuous action game; it’s a turn based game. That’s why it’s so silly when people talk about how much actual playing time there is during the game. I think it’s fine just like it is. If you want to change something in the NFL; let’s do something to make the extra point more of a challenge. ---
**Author:** ![Enright3](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/enright3/32/2897_2.png) [@Enright3](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Enright3)\ **Post date:** [February 3, 2015, 8:31pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/the-nfl-s-penalty-flag-problem/709892/39 "2015-02-03T20:31:32Z")
> [@Saint\_Cad](#): > > I do like how during Super Bowl XL they had different color flags for the team that committed the penalty. I remember the yellow flags were used for Seahawk penalties. I forget which ones were used for Steeler penalties. Anyways I think that’s what the OP is getting at. I wasn’t aware this ever occurred; and I can’t seem to find anything on it. Can you provide a link? I’d like to read about it. ---
**Author:** ![TroutMan](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/troutman/32/6721_2.png) [@TroutMan](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/TroutMan)\ **Post date:** [February 3, 2015, 9:10pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/the-nfl-s-penalty-flag-problem/709892/40 "2015-02-03T21:10:12Z")
> [@Enright3](#): > > I wasn’t aware this ever occurred; and I can’t seem to find anything on it. Can you provide a link? I’d like to read about it. You must be looking on the Steelers sites. Here’s [one link](http://sports.yahoo.com/nfl/blog/shutdown_corner/post/Super-Bowl-XL-head-official-admits-to-blown-call?urn=nfl,260901). [Previous page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/the-nfl-s-penalty-flag-problem/709892.md?page=1) [Next page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/the-nfl-s-penalty-flag-problem/709892.md?page=3)