# The nicer the guy, the darker the sexual secrets? **URL:** \ **Category:** In My Humble Opinion\ **Created:** [February 20, 2013, 5:39am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/the-nicer-the-guy-the-darker-the-sexual-secrets/650866 "2013-02-20T05:39:57Z")\ **Posts on this page:** 20\ **Page:** 1
**Author:** ![JohnClay](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/j/c37758/32.png) [@JohnClay](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/JohnClay)\ **Post date:** [February 20, 2013, 5:39am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/the-nicer-the-guy-the-darker-the-sexual-secrets/650866/1 "2013-02-20T05:39:57Z")
From Dr Robert Glover’s book “No More Mr Nice Guy”: > [@](#): > > I have developed a theory that states, the nicer the guy, the darker the sexual secrets. I find this to be consistently true…the more dependent a man is on external approval, the deeper he is going to have to hide his sexual behavior. What do people think? ---
**Author:** ![Ambivalid](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/a/a5b964/32.png) [@Ambivalid](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Ambivalid)\ **Post date:** [February 20, 2013, 6:16am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/the-nicer-the-guy-the-darker-the-sexual-secrets/650866/2 "2013-02-20T06:16:53Z")
> [@JohnClay](#): > > From Dr Robert Glover’s book “No More Mr Nice Guy”: > > What do people think? This is basically defining “nice” as “needy”. While I don’t disagree that there is a lot of overlap between the two, I don’t think they are one and they same. I wouldn’t define “nice” as being dependent on external approval; I’d define “nice” as being passive aggressive (in the context it’s being used). ---
**Author:** ![JohnClay](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/j/c37758/32.png) [@JohnClay](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/JohnClay)\ **Post date:** [February 20, 2013, 6:21am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/the-nicer-the-guy-the-darker-the-sexual-secrets/650866/3 "2013-02-20T06:21:40Z")
The author calls it “Nice Guy Syndrome” > **[No More Mr. Nice Guy | A Plan for Love, Sex, Dating & Career](https://www.drglover.com/no-more-mr-nice-guy.html)** > > Information regarding the Nice Guy Syndrome and Dr. Robert Glover's proven plan for breaking through and getting the love, sex and career you want. > [@](#): > > Nice Guys are guided by the following three “covert contracts”: > > If I am a good guy, then everyone will love me and like me (and people I desire will desire me). > > If I meet other people’s needs without them having to ask, then they will meet my needs without me having to ask. > > If I do everything right, then I will have a smooth, problem-free life. ---
**Author:** ![Rachellelogram](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/rachellelogram/32/8689_2.png) [@Rachellelogram](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Rachellelogram)\ **Post date:** [February 20, 2013, 8:02am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/the-nicer-the-guy-the-darker-the-sexual-secrets/650866/4 "2013-02-20T08:02:37Z")
Nicer… how? In the actual being a gentleman way? Or the whiny entitled internet way? ---
**Author:** ![zoid](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/zoid/32/336_2.png) [@zoid](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/zoid)\ **Post date:** [February 20, 2013, 8:10am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/the-nicer-the-guy-the-darker-the-sexual-secrets/650866/5 "2013-02-20T08:10:52Z")
> [@JohnClay](#): > > The author calls it “Nice Guy Syndrome” > [No More Mr. Nice Guy | A Plan for Love, Sex, Dating & Career](http://www.drglover.com/no-more-mr-nice-guy.html) That’s only nice in the creepy internet way, like “Why won’t the girls who are a 10 fuck me?! I’m a nice guy! Sure I don’t have a job, I dress like a slob, and I’m at best a 5, but I’M A NICE GUY!” ---
**Author:** ![JohnClay](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/j/c37758/32.png) [@JohnClay](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/JohnClay)\ **Post date:** [February 20, 2013, 8:31am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/the-nicer-the-guy-the-darker-the-sexual-secrets/650866/6 "2013-02-20T08:31:42Z")
> [@Rachellelogram](#): > > Nicer… how? In the actual being a gentleman way? Or the whiny entitled internet way? Nicer in a “Nice Guy Syndrome” way… ---
**Author:** ![JohnClay](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/j/c37758/32.png) [@JohnClay](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/JohnClay)\ **Post date:** [February 20, 2013, 8:38am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/the-nicer-the-guy-the-darker-the-sexual-secrets/650866/7 "2013-02-20T08:38:20Z")
> [@zoid](#): > > That’s only nice in the creepy internet way, like “Why won’t the girls who are a 10 fuck me?! I’m a nice guy! Sure I don’t have a job, I dress like a slob, and I’m at best a 5, but I’M A NICE GUY!” He means a bit different person: About married men: > [@](#): > > “How come I always seem to give so much more than I get?” > “All I want is to be appreciated. Is that asking too much?” > “I can never do it right.” > “She’s always mad.” > “When will it be my turn?” > “She never wants to have sex anymore.” About single men: > [@](#): > > [some]… helped out and listened to women talk about their problems. They patiently waited, hoping the women they desired would quit lamenting over “jerks” and wake up to see what great men they were. Only to hear something like, “You’re such a great guy. You’ll make some lucky woman very happy some day.” ---
**Author:** ![Richard\_Pearse](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/richard_pearse/32/13144_2.png) [@Richard\_Pearse](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Richard_Pearse)\ **Post date:** [February 20, 2013, 8:46am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/the-nicer-the-guy-the-darker-the-sexual-secrets/650866/8 "2013-02-20T08:46:13Z")
As quoted, his conclusion doesn’t follow from the premise. I could see that someone who seeks external approval might be more likely to hide anything about himself that he thinks is abnormal but I don’t see how it follows that his abnormalities would be more extreme (darker). On the other hand the married and single men he has described are basically arseholes, they are being “nice” because they think they will get something in return. Another word for that is “manipulative”. I could see how manipulative arseholes who somehow conceive of themselves as being “nice” could have darker than usual secrets. ---
**Author:** ![JohnClay](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/j/c37758/32.png) [@JohnClay](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/JohnClay)\ **Post date:** [February 20, 2013, 8:49am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/the-nicer-the-guy-the-darker-the-sexual-secrets/650866/9 "2013-02-20T08:49:58Z")
> [@Richard\_Pearse](#): > > As quoted, his conclusion doesn’t follow from the premise… His evidence is “I find this to be consistently true” - he does a lot of counselling with men - these days with “recovering nice guys”. ---
**Author:** ![Mangetout](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/mangetout/32/19_2.png) [@Mangetout](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Mangetout)\ **Post date:** [February 20, 2013, 8:52am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/the-nicer-the-guy-the-darker-the-sexual-secrets/650866/10 "2013-02-20T08:52:57Z")
SO we can’t just enjoy being nice any more. Great. Can’t help strangers for fear of being considerd a rapist, can’t work with kids for fear of paedo accusations and now… can’t be _nice_, because it means you’re a pervert. Just great. ---
**Author:** ![JohnClay](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/j/c37758/32.png) [@JohnClay](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/JohnClay)\ **Post date:** [February 20, 2013, 9:13am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/the-nicer-the-guy-the-darker-the-sexual-secrets/650866/11 "2013-02-20T09:13:34Z")
> [@Mangetout](#): > > SO we can’t just enjoy being nice any more. Great. Can’t help strangers for fear of being considered a rapist, can’t work with kids for fear of paedo accusations and now… can’t be _nice_, because it means you’re a pervert. Just great. It’s just that “No More Mr NICE Guy” is a snappy title… and it’s just a minority, like the author, who suspect dark sexual secrets behind nice guys… also: “No More Christian Nice Guy: When Being Nice - Instead of Good - Hurts Men, Women And Children” > **[No More Christian Nice Guy: When Being Nice—Instead of Good—Hurts Men, Women and...](https://www.amazon.com/More-Christian-Nice-Guy-Nice-Instead/dp/0764200925)** > > No More Christian Nice Guy: When Being Nice—Instead of Good—Hurts Men, Women and Children \[Coughlin, Paul\] on Amazon.com. \*FREE\* shipping on qualifying offers. No More Christian Nice Guy: When Being Nice—Instead of Good—Hurts Men, Women and Children ---
**Author:** ![epbrown01](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/e/7ba0ec/32.png) [@epbrown01](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/epbrown01)\ **Post date:** [February 20, 2013, 9:16am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/the-nicer-the-guy-the-darker-the-sexual-secrets/650866/12 "2013-02-20T09:16:05Z")
I don’t know, this is a pretty skeezy version of “Nice Guy,” especially the single guy version. How is a guy that thinks you owe him sex because he bought a couple of drinks a jerk, and a guy that thinks you owe him sex because he listened to your problems a nice guy? Both have a sleazy agenda. Hell, the guy at the bar might be more appealing, as he’s honest. ---
**Author:** ![JohnClay](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/j/c37758/32.png) [@JohnClay](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/JohnClay)\ **Post date:** [February 20, 2013, 9:19am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/the-nicer-the-guy-the-darker-the-sexual-secrets/650866/13 "2013-02-20T09:19:15Z")
BTW remember all of the sexual child abuse from church leaders… they would generally be from “nice guys” - and there would be a lot of others guilty of doing sexual things that didn’t involve sexually abusing people ---
**Author:** ![Simplicio](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/s/c37758/32.png) [@Simplicio](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Simplicio)\ **Post date:** [February 20, 2013, 9:36am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/the-nicer-the-guy-the-darker-the-sexual-secrets/650866/14 "2013-02-20T09:36:09Z")
> [@JohnClay](#): > > His evidence is “I find this to be consistently true” - he does a lot of counselling with men - these days with “recovering nice guys”. Who would’ve thought that people who go to a self-described “nice guy counselor” for therapy regarding sexual issues would end up being nice guys with sexual issues. Not exactly a random sample there. ---
**Author:** ![Der\_Trihs](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/der_trihs/32/233_2.png) [@Der\_Trihs](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Der_Trihs)\ **Post date:** [February 20, 2013, 9:37am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/the-nicer-the-guy-the-darker-the-sexual-secrets/650866/15 "2013-02-20T09:37:28Z")
> [@JohnClay](#): > > BTW remember all of the sexual child abuse from church leaders… they would generally be from “nice guys” They weren’t the Internet Meme “Nice Guys” who are being spoken of here. In fact I’d call them authority figures, not any variety of “nice guys”. ---
**Author:** ![JohnClay](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/j/c37758/32.png) [@JohnClay](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/JohnClay)\ **Post date:** [February 20, 2013, 9:45am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/the-nicer-the-guy-the-darker-the-sexual-secrets/650866/16 "2013-02-20T09:45:38Z")
> [@Simplicio](#): > > Who would’ve thought that people who go to a self-described “nice guy counselor” for therapy regarding sexual issues would end up being nice guys with sexual issues. Not exactly a random sample there. Surely someone who’s “worked with thousands of Nice Guys” would know a lot about the topic. > **[No More Mr. Nice Guy | A Plan for Love, Sex, Dating & Career](https://www.drglover.com/no-more-mr-nice-guy.html)** > > Information regarding the Nice Guy Syndrome and Dr. Robert Glover's proven plan for breaking through and getting the love, sex and career you want. > [@](#): > > …I understand what it takes to break free from the Nice Guy Syndrome -because I am a recovering Nice Guy. As far as the topic’s title goes, he would know about the severity of the syndrome vs their sexual secrets… ---
**Author:** ![Richard\_Pearse](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/richard_pearse/32/13144_2.png) [@Richard\_Pearse](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Richard_Pearse)\ **Post date:** [February 20, 2013, 9:50am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/the-nicer-the-guy-the-darker-the-sexual-secrets/650866/17 "2013-02-20T09:50:34Z")
> [@JohnClay](#): > > Surely someone who’s “worked with thousands of Nice Guys” would know a lot about the topic. He knows a lot about nice guys perhaps, but you can’t make a statement of comparison such as “nice guys have darker sexual secrets” unless you also know a lot about the people on the other side of the comparison. ---
**Author:** ![JohnClay](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/j/c37758/32.png) [@JohnClay](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/JohnClay)\ **Post date:** [February 20, 2013, 10:12am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/the-nicer-the-guy-the-darker-the-sexual-secrets/650866/18 "2013-02-20T10:12:39Z")
> [@Richard\_Pearse](#): > > He knows a lot about nice guys perhaps, but you can’t make a statement of comparison such as “nice guys have darker sexual secrets” unless you also know a lot about the people on the other side of the comparison. I think he means that amongst nice guys, the “nicer” ones have darker sexual secrets. Also I suspect that the non-nice guys would often have their behaviour out in the open - e.g. they might be abusing their wife, hang around strip clubs, have porn lying around everywhere, etc. ---
**Author:** ![Mangetout](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/mangetout/32/19_2.png) [@Mangetout](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Mangetout)\ **Post date:** [February 20, 2013, 10:35am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/the-nicer-the-guy-the-darker-the-sexual-secrets/650866/19 "2013-02-20T10:35:59Z")
I think there could be a fallacy of induction at play here. If pervs tend to present as nice, it doesn’t necessarily mean nice guys are pervs. ---
**Author:** ![JohnClay](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/j/c37758/32.png) [@JohnClay](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/JohnClay)\ **Post date:** [February 20, 2013, 10:46am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/the-nicer-the-guy-the-darker-the-sexual-secrets/650866/20 "2013-02-20T10:46:51Z")
> [@Mangetout](#): > > I think there could be a fallacy of induction at play here. If pervs tend to present as nice, it doesn’t necessarily mean nice guys are pervs. The author is talking about his experience with thousands of “nice guys”. He wouldn’t have much experience with “pervs” in general. Perhaps a jail’s counselor would be more knowledgeable. BTW I think a lot of “pervs” wouldn’t feel bad about their sexuality… i.e. they wouldn’t keep it a big secret… guys who objectify women in public could be considered pervs. [Next page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/the-nicer-the-guy-the-darker-the-sexual-secrets/650866.md?page=2)