# The Night of The Doctor Mini-episode (Open Spoilers) **URL:** \ **Category:** Cafe Society\ **Created:** [November 14, 2013, 2:15pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/the-night-of-the-doctor-mini-episode-open-spoilers/673908 "2013-11-14T14:15:53Z")\ **Posts on this page:** 20\ **Page:** 2
**Author:** ![Half\_Man\_Half\_Wit](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/half_man_half_wit/32/21766_2.png) [@Half\_Man\_Half\_Wit](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Half_Man_Half_Wit)\ **Post date:** [November 14, 2013, 8:30pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/the-night-of-the-doctor-mini-episode-open-spoilers/673908/21 "2013-11-14T20:30:52Z")
> [@Baron\_Greenback](#): > > Someone on another forum said that this minisode was bigger on the inside, and I think that’s exactly right. It reintroduced Eight, demonstrated just how bad the Time War had gotten by that point, told us what Eight’s reaction to and involvement in the Time War was, emphasised the Doctors willingness to self-sacrifice, reintroduced The Sisters of Karn (and their potentially useful for future episodes upgraded re-gen technology), showed Eight’s re-gen along with a big clue about the nature of John Hurt’s character, and it made Eight’s Big Finish audios canon. In six minutes. > > Great work from everyone involved, and kudos to the BBC for keeping it a secret. What are ‘Eight’s Big Finish audios’? ---
**Author:** ![andros](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/a/e480ec/32.png) [@andros](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/andros)\ **Post date:** [November 14, 2013, 8:39pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/the-night-of-the-doctor-mini-episode-open-spoilers/673908/22 "2013-11-14T20:39:14Z")
> [@Half\_Man\_Half\_Wit](#): > > What are ‘Eight’s Big Finish audios’? Audioplays by Big Finish productions. Some really great stuff there. > **[Doctor Who The Eighth Doctor Adventures | Big Finish Productions](https://www.bigfinish.com/ranges/v/doctor-who-the-eighth-doctor-adventures)** > > Browse Doctor Who The Eighth Doctor Adventures audio dramas from Big Finish Productions. Discover complete series, special releases, and exclusive content. ---
**Author:** ![Half\_Man\_Half\_Wit](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/half_man_half_wit/32/21766_2.png) [@Half\_Man\_Half\_Wit](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Half_Man_Half_Wit)\ **Post date:** [November 14, 2013, 8:55pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/the-night-of-the-doctor-mini-episode-open-spoilers/673908/23 "2013-11-14T20:55:00Z")
> [@andros](#): > > Audioplays by Big Finish productions. Some really great stuff there. > > [http://www.bigfinish.com/ranges/v/eighth-doctor-adventures](http://www.bigfinish.com/ranges/v/eighth-doctor-adventures) Thanks! ---
**Author:** ![Baron\_Greenback](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/baron_greenback/32/48_2.png) [@Baron\_Greenback](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Baron_Greenback)\ **Post date:** [November 14, 2013, 8:58pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/the-night-of-the-doctor-mini-episode-open-spoilers/673908/24 "2013-11-14T20:58:10Z")
> [@andros](#): > > Audioplays by Big Finish productions. Some really great stuff there. Yes, and they are doing some 50th Anniversary stuff too. Check out the cast list on these: > **[Errors - Big Finish](https://www.bigfinish.com/ranges/v/doctor-who-50th-anniversary)** > > Award-winning, full-cast original audio dramas from the worlds of Doctor Who, Torchwood, Blake's 7, Class, Dark Shadows, The Avengers, Survivors, The Omega Factor, Star Cops, Sherlock Holmes, Dorian Gray, Pathfinder Legends, The Prisoner, Adam... They tend to be a bit expensive at first, but drop in price fairly quickly. I’m trying to think of an Eighth Doctor one that is a) cheap, and b) requires little backstory so makes a good introduction, but am struggling, so I’ll just recommend one of my favourites: The Chimes of Midnight, from 2002. > **[029. Doctor Who: The Chimes of Midnight - Doctor Who - The Monthly Adventures...](https://www.bigfinish.com/releases/v/doctor-who-the-chimes-of-midnight-653)** > > Award-winning, full-cast original audio dramas from the worlds of Doctor Who, Torchwood, Blake's 7, Class, Dark Shadows, The Avengers, Survivors, The Omega Factor, Star Cops, Sherlock Holmes, Dorian Gray, Pathfinder Legends, The Prisoner, Adam... ---
**Author:** ![Drunky\_Smurf](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/drunky_smurf/32/449_2.png) [@Drunky\_Smurf](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Drunky_Smurf)\ **Post date:** [November 14, 2013, 9:03pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/the-night-of-the-doctor-mini-episode-open-spoilers/673908/25 "2013-11-14T21:03:00Z")
That was great. I can’t wait until next weekend. ---
**Author:** ![Andy\_L](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/a/c67d28/32.png) [@Andy\_L](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Andy_L)\ **Post date:** [November 14, 2013, 11:14pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/the-night-of-the-doctor-mini-episode-open-spoilers/673908/26 "2013-11-14T23:14:03Z")
I had been having trouble reconciling the idea of an intermediate not-Doctor involved with the Time War, given how freely the later Doctors acknowledged their guilt for destroying the Daleks and Gallifrey. My new theory is that the “War Doctor” fought the Time War, creating all the atrocities referred to (“The Nightmare Child,” “The Never-Weres” etc.), intending a Time Lord victory - but Christopher Eccleston’s Doctor ended the war. The post-war Doctors acknowledge their actions to end the war, but not their actions during the war. ---
**Author:** ![andros](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/a/e480ec/32.png) [@andros](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/andros)\ **Post date:** [November 14, 2013, 11:46pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/the-night-of-the-doctor-mini-episode-open-spoilers/673908/27 "2013-11-14T23:46:05Z")
Interesting angle, **Andy L**. In the second TV trailer, the War Doctor says “Great men are forged in fire. It is the privilege of lesser men to light the flame.” Your suggestion would make sense if he sees himself as the lesser man (which seems also in keeping with 8’s dialogue with the Sister), and hopes that his regeneration will again be the Doctor. Makes Eccles “forged in fire,” waking up to a new regeneration with the knowledge of all the hell he had wrought and that his only choice was to push the button. I’d watch that. I might weep, but I’d watch the hell out of it. ---
**Author:** ![andros](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/a/e480ec/32.png) [@andros](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/andros)\ **Post date:** [November 14, 2013, 11:50pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/the-night-of-the-doctor-mini-episode-open-spoilers/673908/28 "2013-11-14T23:50:36Z")
…actually, that could be close to the way the special goes. The face of the newly-regenerated War Doctor is definitely not current John Hurt. Ghod only knows how much time elapses between “Night” and “Day.” ---
**Author:** ![Kal](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/k/9de053/32.png) [@Kal](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Kal)\ **Post date:** [November 15, 2013, 12:09am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/the-night-of-the-doctor-mini-episode-open-spoilers/673908/29 "2013-11-15T00:09:54Z")
It’s a bit of an overstatement to say that this minisode made Eight’s Big Finish stuff canon. It made the names of Eight’s companions canon, sure, but nothing more than that. ---
**Author:** ![Andy\_L](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/a/c67d28/32.png) [@Andy\_L](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Andy_L)\ **Post date:** [November 15, 2013, 12:45am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/the-night-of-the-doctor-mini-episode-open-spoilers/673908/30 "2013-11-15T00:45:10Z")
> [@andros](#): > > I’d watch that. I might weep, but I’d watch the hell out of it. Me too. ---
**Author:** ![GuanoLad](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/guanolad/32/42_2.png) [@GuanoLad](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/GuanoLad)\ **Post date:** [November 15, 2013, 1:17am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/the-night-of-the-doctor-mini-episode-open-spoilers/673908/31 "2013-11-15T01:17:09Z")
> [@Kal](#): > > It’s a bit of an overstatement to say that this minisode made Eight’s Big Finish stuff canon. I think that it was his recently established new look, though, with the blue jacket. Though I guess that doesn’t mean much in the grand scheme\* of things. _“Grand Scheme” is an apt description for Doctor Who. I think I’ll use it for the title of the episode I write_\* \*\*I am not writing a _Doctor Who_ episode ---
**Author:** ![Mahaloth](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/mahaloth/32/1079_2.png) [@Mahaloth](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Mahaloth)\ **Post date:** [November 15, 2013, 1:17am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/the-night-of-the-doctor-mini-episode-open-spoilers/673908/32 "2013-11-15T01:17:12Z")
I’m starting to wonder that if they kept this secret, if they have also gotten Christopher Eccletson to appear in the special just as a cameo to show his regeneration. I know they have denied his appearance, but NBC said Steve Carrel would not be in the Office finale. :crosses fingers: ---
**Author:** ![RandMcnally](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/r/b782af/32.png) [@RandMcnally](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/RandMcnally)\ **Post date:** [November 15, 2013, 1:24am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/the-night-of-the-doctor-mini-episode-open-spoilers/673908/33 "2013-11-15T01:24:00Z")
Yeah, I’m impressed how they were able to keep this hidden. ---
**Author:** ![Don\_Draper](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/d/b2d939/32.png) [@Don\_Draper](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Don_Draper)\ **Post date:** [November 15, 2013, 2:47am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/the-night-of-the-doctor-mini-episode-open-spoilers/673908/34 "2013-11-15T02:47:46Z")
My inner-geek is ready to burst out now. I feel the urge to write some alternate timeline-based fanfic about the adventures of Doctor #8 and his intrepid new companion Cass squaring off against the evil Morbius of Karn. ---
**Author:** ![dropzone](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/dropzone/32/7515_2.png) [@dropzone](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/dropzone)\ **Post date:** [November 15, 2013, 3:14am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/the-night-of-the-doctor-mini-episode-open-spoilers/673908/35 "2013-11-15T03:14:12Z")
> [@GuanoLad](#): > > \*\*I am not writing a _Doctor Who_ episode Friend, I think it’s safe to admit you are because everybody else here has at least planned one out. None were produced, of course, mostly because of that problematic “not knowing the right people” thing. The Big Idea things aren’t canon? I thought the deal was that anything by Big Idea was canon. ---
**Author:** ![Penfeather](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/penfeather/32/384_2.png) [@Penfeather](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Penfeather)\ **Post date:** [November 15, 2013, 3:54am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/the-night-of-the-doctor-mini-episode-open-spoilers/673908/36 "2013-11-15T03:54:53Z")
What if the 8 1/2 Doctor _was_ Morbius, the renegade warmongering Time Lord, and the crimes Morbius was executed for were committed in the Time War? When the Fourth Doctor went up against him on Karn, he was unknowlngly manoeuvered by the Time Lords into confronting a disgraced future version of himself, saving them embarrassment. ---
**Author:** ![Peter\_Morris](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/peter_morris/32/359_2.png) [@Peter\_Morris](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Peter_Morris)\ **Post date:** [November 15, 2013, 4:18am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/the-night-of-the-doctor-mini-episode-open-spoilers/673908/37 "2013-11-15T04:18:51Z")
> [@gonzoron](#): > > Really, when? Outside of promotional stuff, I mean. Not in the show, right? In [The Lodger](http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/The_Lodger_%28Doctor_Who%29)he shows Craig his previous faces,then says “Eleventh” while pointing at himself. I remember that because I’d previously speculated there might have been some unseen regenerations between McGann and Eccleston. The Lodger was, AFAIK, the first explicit statement that there wasn’t. ---
**Author:** ![jayjay](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/jayjay/32/6765_2.png) [@jayjay](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/jayjay)\ **Post date:** [November 15, 2013, 4:43am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/the-night-of-the-doctor-mini-episode-open-spoilers/673908/38 "2013-11-15T04:43:13Z")
Rule One: Moffatt lies. And thank Og for that! ---
**Author:** ![WotNot](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/w/e19b73/32.png) [@WotNot](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/WotNot)\ **Post date:** [November 15, 2013, 7:58am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/the-night-of-the-doctor-mini-episode-open-spoilers/673908/39 "2013-11-15T07:58:58Z")
> [@dropzone](#): > > The Big Idea things aren’t canon? I thought the deal was that anything by Big Idea was canon. The deal with _Doctor Who_ canon is this: there isn’t one. Not officially, nor even by unofficial fan consensus. Not that that stops people arguing endlessly over what the canon — were it to exist — would consist of, naturally. ---
**Author:** ![Smeghead](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/s/f1d935/32.png) [@Smeghead](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Smeghead)\ **Post date:** [November 15, 2013, 11:54am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/the-night-of-the-doctor-mini-episode-open-spoilers/673908/40 "2013-11-15T11:54:34Z")
There was a Big Finish adventure I listened to where Eight spent something like five or six hundred years stuck on a planet by himself. If that were canon, then Nine and Ten were lying about their age, or else Eight existed for well over half of his entire lifetime. [Previous page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/the-night-of-the-doctor-mini-episode-open-spoilers/673908.md?page=1) [Next page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/the-night-of-the-doctor-mini-episode-open-spoilers/673908.md?page=3)