# The Nineteenth Letter of the English Alphabet... **URL:** \ **Category:** The BBQ Pit\ **Created:** [February 16, 2003, 4:49pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/the-nineteenth-letter-of-the-english-alphabet/155462 "2003-02-16T16:49:33Z")\ **Posts on this page:** 20\ **Page:** 2
**Author:** ![samarm](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/s/4da419/32.png) [@samarm](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/samarm)\ **Post date:** [February 16, 2003, 8:00pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/the-nineteenth-letter-of-the-english-alphabet/155462/21 "2003-02-16T20:00:44Z")
Re: the OP. I agree totally. I cant stand it when doper’s cant be bothered to use correct grammer. Its something that really annoy’s me. ---
**Author:** ![JRootabega](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/j/8e7dd6/32.png) [@JRootabega](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/JRootabega)\ **Post date:** [February 16, 2003, 8:07pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/the-nineteenth-letter-of-the-english-alphabet/155462/22 "2003-02-16T20:07:21Z")
Say, did you all hear that President Nixon resigned yesterday?! ---
**Author:** ![coosa](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/c/eada6e/32.png) [@coosa](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/coosa)\ **Post date:** [February 16, 2003, 8:40pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/the-nineteenth-letter-of-the-english-alphabet/155462/23 "2003-02-16T20:40:43Z")
You know, **Hometownboy** posted a similar rant a few days ago, and **Dogzilla** and I soothed his ruffled feathers a little by each giving him a big smooch. (BTW, leave any examples of my lousy grammar alone, thankyouverymuch.) ::Surveys number of previous posts in thread speculatively:: _sigh_ I don’t think I have enough chapstick on hand. ☹ ---
**Author:** ![iampunha](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/i/74df32/32.png) [@iampunha](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/iampunha)\ **Post date:** [February 16, 2003, 8:54pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/the-nineteenth-letter-of-the-english-alphabet/155462/24 "2003-02-16T20:54:45Z")
“: a mark ’ used to indicate the omission of letters or figures, the possessive case, or the plural of letters or figures” Er, one of the exceptions to that rule is the whole its/it’s thing. “its” is possessive and needs no apostrophe (and indeed placing one therein changes the meaning of the word). 😉 ---
**Author:** ![Will\_Repair](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/w/a698b9/32.png) [@Will\_Repair](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Will_Repair)\ **Post date:** [February 16, 2003, 9:09pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/the-nineteenth-letter-of-the-english-alphabet/155462/25 "2003-02-16T21:09:02Z")
**Monty** stay away from public restrooms. I’ve seen: Men Mens Men’s ---
**Author:** ![Baldwin](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/baldwin/32/7264_2.png) [@Baldwin](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Baldwin)\ **Post date:** [February 16, 2003, 9:22pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/the-nineteenth-letter-of-the-english-alphabet/155462/26 "2003-02-16T21:22:25Z")
Are they really not teaching kids to diagram sentences these days? Once you learn to do that, it’ll serve you your whole life (assuming you have an interest in writing coherent sentences). > [@](#): > > “: a mark ’ used to indicate the omission of letters or figures, the possessive case, or the plural of letters or figures” > > Er, one of the exceptions to that rule is the whole its/it’s thing. “its” is possessive and needs no apostrophe (and indeed placing one therein changes the meaning of the word). “Its” isn’t really an exception, it’s just a pronoun. “His”, “hers”, “theirs”, “ours”, “yours” – plurals of pronouns don’t have apostrophes. I think the confusion arises because, unlike the other pronouns, “it” has a possessive form that sounds the same as its contraction with a form of the verb “to be”. There’s no confusion between “his” and “he’s” or “hers” and “she’s”. Come to think of it, there’s also sometimes confusion between “their” and “they’re”, probably for the same reason. ---
**Author:** ![Wearia](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/w/13edae/32.png) [@Wearia](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Wearia)\ **Post date:** [February 16, 2003, 9:33pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/the-nineteenth-letter-of-the-english-alphabet/155462/27 "2003-02-16T21:33:43Z")
[Bob’s Quick Guide to the Apostrophe, You Idiots.](http://www.angryflower.com/bobsqu.gif) ---
**Author:** ![Monty](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/monty/32/47_2.png) [@Monty](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Monty)\ **Post date:** [February 16, 2003, 10:36pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/the-nineteenth-letter-of-the-english-alphabet/155462/28 "2003-02-16T22:36:46Z")
Yes, I actually did proofread my OP. The paragraph with all the extra apostrophes was used for effect. You might want to go back and read the sentence after that paragraph. ---
**Author:** ![White\_Lightning](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/w/f04885/32.png) [@White\_Lightning](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/White_Lightning)\ **Post date:** [February 17, 2003, 1:01am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/the-nineteenth-letter-of-the-english-alphabet/155462/29 "2003-02-17T01:01:48Z")
I hope I never live to see the day where incorrect apostrophe usage becomes grammatically acceptable, justified by ignorance apologists as the “evolution” of the language. My girlfriend does this, bizarrely, only for one word: She cannot resist writing “thing’s.” I have no idea where it came from. **Baldwin** , no, they’re not. And, just to add to the list, here’s a mistake that I had never seen made regularly until I came to the SDMB: “definately.” Ugh. ---
**Author:** ![erislover](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/e/71e660/32.png) [@erislover](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/erislover)\ **Post date:** [February 17, 2003, 1:21am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/the-nineteenth-letter-of-the-english-alphabet/155462/30 "2003-02-17T01:21:12Z")
> [@](#): > > \*Originally posted by White Lightning \* > I hope I never live to see the day where incorrect apostrophe usage becomes grammatically acceptable, justified by ignorance apologists as the “evolution” of the language. I don’t apologize for ignorance, but I hold no erection in hand when thinking about proper use, either. Language is for communication. When it does that, it works. ---
**Author:** ![vivalostwages](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/v/d07c76/32.png) [@vivalostwages](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/vivalostwages)\ **Post date:** [February 17, 2003, 1:30am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/the-nineteenth-letter-of-the-english-alphabet/155462/31 "2003-02-17T01:30:25Z")
It’s also unacceptable. To write sentence fragments. Most of the time. Just because you think and speak and fragments does not mean that it’s okay to use them nor is it okay to write run-on sentences it drives me crazy to have to read them from all five of my classes and from the rest of the world. ---
**Author:** ![kaylasdad99](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/kaylasdad99/32/3398_2.png) [@kaylasdad99](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/kaylasdad99)\ **Post date:** [February 17, 2003, 1:34am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/the-nineteenth-letter-of-the-english-alphabet/155462/32 "2003-02-17T01:34:49Z")
> [@](#): > > _Originally posted by Monty \* > \*\*Perhap’s you 'spend the morning reading the new’spaper’s, but only the comic’s 'section’s, of cour’se.[sup]_[/sup]\*\* I look at that asterisk, and I review the entire thread. I particularly go over the OP with a fine-toothed comb. I click on the quote feature, and note the superscript coding on the asterisk. I can come to only one conclusion: **Monty,** you owe us a footnote, or an expanded remark, or a clarifying statement. Or _something_. ---
**Author:** ![Flamsterette\_X](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/f/41988e/32.png) [@Flamsterette\_X](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Flamsterette_X)\ **Post date:** [February 17, 2003, 1:38am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/the-nineteenth-letter-of-the-english-alphabet/155462/33 "2003-02-17T01:38:58Z")
> [@](#): > > \*Originally posted by White Lightning \* > \*\*And, just to add to the list, here’s a mistake that I had never seen made regularly until I came to the SDMB: “definately.” Ugh. \*\* How about “rediculous”? Granted, I only see this regularly when I’m chatting with a Colorado friend of mine (and goodness knows I like him well enough)… but it still drives me nuts. (and he does the “definately” thing, too…) F\_X ---
**Author:** ![Monty](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/monty/32/47_2.png) [@Monty](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Monty)\ **Post date:** [February 17, 2003, 1:43am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/the-nineteenth-letter-of-the-english-alphabet/155462/34 "2003-02-17T01:43:15Z")
kayla: Dang Linguistics training got in the way again. The asterisk in that field, when applied _before_ the item in question, indicates an ungrammatical form (yes, there’s also another use of the asterisk for Historical Linguistics). Please pretend, if you would be so kind, that there is an asterisk in front of “Do you see how jarring that is?” and all should be clear. ---
**Author:** ![Mirror\_Image\_egamI\_rorriM](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/m/e56c9b/32.png) [@Mirror\_Image\_egamI\_rorriM](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Mirror_Image_egamI_rorriM)\ **Post date:** [February 17, 2003, 1:43am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/the-nineteenth-letter-of-the-english-alphabet/155462/35 "2003-02-17T01:43:28Z")
**Baldwin** , I think diagramming can mean two different things. The first is drawing the little diagrams for sentences, like in Cecil’s column on “See Spot run,” in which he described the diagram as looking like someone (I don’t remember who) “playing jai alai.” I did learn that in 8th grade English, but haven’t used it since, and I don’t remember how. The second kind of diagramming is the kind we do in Latin class: going through the passage we’re about to translate and identifying each word by gender, number, and case (ablative, genetive, accusative, etc). I use this one everyday, and it’s most useful. I learned much more about language by taking Latin than I did by taking English. ---
**Author:** ![Monty](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/monty/32/47_2.png) [@Monty](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Monty)\ **Post date:** [February 17, 2003, 1:45am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/the-nineteenth-letter-of-the-english-alphabet/155462/36 "2003-02-17T01:45:47Z")
Mirror: Is the next lesson to write “every day” correctly as two words? 😉 ---
**Author:** ![Hometownboy](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/h/5e9695/32.png) [@Hometownboy](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Hometownboy)\ **Post date:** [February 17, 2003, 1:56am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/the-nineteenth-letter-of-the-english-alphabet/155462/37 "2003-02-17T01:56:00Z")
> [@](#): > > \*Originally posted by coosa \* > \*\*You know, **Hometownboy** posted a similar rant a few days ago, and **Dogzilla** and I soothed his ruffled feathers a little by each giving him a big smooch. (BTW, leave any examples of my lousy grammar alone, thankyouverymuch.) > > ::Surveys number of previous posts in thread speculatively:: > > _sigh_ I don’t think I have enough chapstick on hand. ☹ \*\* And let me say that the soothing was very much appreciated, especially as the thread was later hijacked with a drive-by insult exchange that turned far more interesting than my pitiful grammar rant. So, can I loan you chapstick money? In the iterests of world peace, of course. ---
**Author:** ![kaylasdad99](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/kaylasdad99/32/3398_2.png) [@kaylasdad99](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/kaylasdad99)\ **Post date:** [February 17, 2003, 1:58am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/the-nineteenth-letter-of-the-english-alphabet/155462/38 "2003-02-17T01:58:26Z")
Thank you, **Monty** for the clarification, but _not_ for calling me kayla. Perhaps I need to shoulder some of the responsibility for that. I’m considering having my screen name changed to **kayla’s\_father**. What do you think? 😉 ---
**Author:** ![t-keela](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/t/a3d4f5/32.png) [@t-keela](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/t-keela)\ **Post date:** [February 17, 2003, 2:49am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/the-nineteenth-letter-of-the-english-alphabet/155462/39 "2003-02-17T02:49:49Z")
> [@](#): > > \*Originally posted by White Lightning \* > \*\*I hope I never live to see the day where incorrect apostrophe usage becomes grammatically acceptable, justified by ignorance apologists as the “evolution” of the language. > > My girlfriend does this, bizarrely, only for one word: She cannot resist writing “thing’s.” I have no idea where it came from. > > **Baldwin** , no, they’re not. > > And, just to add to the list, here’s a mistake that I had never seen made regularly until I came to the SDMB: “definately.” Ugh. \*\* Was this intended for me, perhaps? If so, please excuse me for being an “ignorance apologists”. That was not my intention. When I taught high school, I could barely comprehend the language that was being used. Forget about reading the papers that were barely legible. Handwriting is absolutely not graded anymore. Grammar? another joke! If these things aren’t taught early in school. It is too late for most students when they reach the secondary level of education. College isn’t much better! As far as my own personal communication skills go. I try to keep it on approximately the same level as those with whom I am conversing. BTW, I live in East Texas…:smack: ---
**Author:** ![vivalostwages](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/v/d07c76/32.png) [@vivalostwages](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/vivalostwages)\ **Post date:** [February 17, 2003, 4:12am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/the-nineteenth-letter-of-the-english-alphabet/155462/40 "2003-02-17T04:12:21Z")
> [@](#): > > \*Originally posted by Monty \* > \*\*Mirror: Is the next lesson to write “every day” correctly as two words? 😉 \*\* * * * Oh, God. Yes, please! (unless it’s used as an adjective, when it’s okay to write it as one word) [Previous page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/the-nineteenth-letter-of-the-english-alphabet/155462.md?page=1) [Next page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/the-nineteenth-letter-of-the-english-alphabet/155462.md?page=3)