# The "No, Both Sides Don't Do This" Thread **URL:** \ **Category:** Great Debates\ **Created:** [May 1, 2015, 1:18pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/the-no-both-sides-dont-do-this-thread/718990 "2015-05-01T13:18:46Z")\ **Posts on this page:** 20\ **Page:** 1
**Author:** ![RTFirefly](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/r/c77e96/32.png) [@RTFirefly](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/RTFirefly)\ **Post date:** [May 1, 2015, 1:18pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/the-no-both-sides-dont-do-this-thread/718990/1 "2015-05-01T13:18:46Z")
Every time I see some Republican craziness - stuff that shouldn’t get any further than Alex Jones, or maybe Glenn Beck, in a more sane era, but has broken into what is now the GOP mainstream - I think of starting a thread like this: a thread to collect instances of stuff that Republicans do and say that has no equivalent on the Dem side, at least not among actual officeholders and other major party figures. A military training exercise known as Jade Helm 15, which the wingnutosphere has elevated to a potential Military Takeover of Texas, seems like a good one to lead off with. It would be one thing if only the wingnutosphere was taking this seriously, and major Republicans were saying, “gimme a fucking break, clowns.” But instead, [here’s Greg Abbott, the (GOP, of course) governor of Texas](http://talkingpointsmemo.com/news/texas-governor-abbott-orders-national-guard-military-takeover): > [@](#): > > “It is important that Texans know their safety, constitutional rights, private property rights and civil liberties will not be infringed,” Abbott wrote. “By monitoring the Operation on a continual basis, the State Guard will facilitate communications between my office and the commanders of the Operation to ensure that adequate measures are in place to protect Texans.” So he’s having the Texas State Guard “monitor[ing Jade Helm 15] on a continual basis” “to ensure that adequate measures are in place to protect Texans.” O-_kay._ And what color is the sky over Texas in _your_ reality, Gov? And Rand Paul, a theoretically serious GOP candidate for President, also can’t bring himself to say, “gimme a fucking break” to the clowns, but rather says [he’ll look into it](http://talkingpointsmemo.com/livewire/rand-paul-jade-helm). (Gotta say, I’d be tickled pink if all the major GOP candidates were asked at some point today whether they think Jade Helm 15 is a potential military takeover of Texas, or a completely ridiculous thing to be worried about, or what. We should know which of them does, and doesn’t, have the guts to be sane in public. :)) ---
**Author:** ![John\_Mace](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/john_mace/32/185_2.png) [@John\_Mace](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/John_Mace)\ **Post date:** [May 1, 2015, 1:43pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/the-no-both-sides-dont-do-this-thread/718990/2 "2015-05-01T13:43:12Z")
From your cite: > [@](#): > > Bastrop County Judge Paul Pape said “conspiracy theorists” and “fear mongers” had been in a frenzy. > > Pape thanked Abbott for the letter to the Texas State Guard, which he believed helped emphasize the benefit of the military training rather than further fuel theorists. > > “It’s a sad when people’s greatest fear is their own government,” Pape said. “Think about the ramification of that. If Americans go to sleep at night worrying whether their own government is going to sell them out before morning, it’d be hard to sleep.” Are you sure any side is doing anything of note here? ---
**Author:** ![RTFirefly](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/r/c77e96/32.png) [@RTFirefly](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/RTFirefly)\ **Post date:** [May 1, 2015, 1:56pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/the-no-both-sides-dont-do-this-thread/718990/3 "2015-05-01T13:56:43Z")
> [@John\_Mace](#): > > From your cite: > Are you sure any side is doing anything of note here? Having a state military keep an eye on the U.S. military to assuage wingnut fears that they’re going to do a military takeover of Texas? Yeah, I consider that pretty extraordinary. ---
**Author:** ![ElvisL1ves](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/e/5daacb/32.png) [@ElvisL1ves](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/ElvisL1ves)\ **Post date:** [May 1, 2015, 2:03pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/the-no-both-sides-dont-do-this-thread/718990/4 "2015-05-01T14:03:25Z")
You might have added a corollary - if it’s indisputable that no, they\* don’t\* both do it, then what the one side _does_ do doesn’t matter. ---
**Author:** ![ITR\_champion](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/i/c67d28/32.png) [@ITR\_champion](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/ITR_champion)\ **Post date:** [May 1, 2015, 2:35pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/the-no-both-sides-dont-do-this-thread/718990/5 "2015-05-01T14:35:57Z")
> [@RTFirefly](#): > > Every time I see some Republican craziness - stuff that shouldn’t get any further than Alex Jones, or maybe Glenn Beck, in a more sane era, but has broken into what is now the GOP mainstream - I think of starting a thread like this: a thread to collect instances of stuff that Republicans do and say that has no equivalent on the Dem side, at least not among actual officeholders and other major party figures. And how do you intend to prove there’s no equivalent on the Dem side? Crazy conspiracy theories pour forth from Democrats all the time. Elizabeth Warren said that the _Hobby Lobby_ decision “lets some big corporation deny the women who work for it access to basic medical treatments or prescriptions”. Mark Udall [said](http://www.politifact.com/truth-o-meter/statements/2014/oct/30/naral-pro-choice/ad-colorado-senate-race-suggests-cory-gardner-woul/) that his opponent, if elected, would ban condoms. Wendy Davis [implied](http://m.washingtonexaminer.com/wendy-davis-supporters-try-to-suggest-greg-abbott-is-against-interracial-marriage-but/article/2555034) that Greg Abbott wouldn’t support interracial marriage, while Abbott is in an interracial marriage. Crazy comes in all flavors. ---
**Author:** ![John\_Mace](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/john_mace/32/185_2.png) [@John\_Mace](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/John_Mace)\ **Post date:** [May 1, 2015, 3:08pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/the-no-both-sides-dont-do-this-thread/718990/6 "2015-05-01T15:08:04Z")
> [@RTFirefly](#): > > Having a state military keep an eye on the U.S. military to assuage wingnut fears that they’re going to do a military takeover of Texas? > > Yeah, I consider that pretty extraordinary. Sounds like boilerplate platitude to me. Seems like something that would typically take place anyway (do states just let the military come in and do whatever they want without any oversight?) and was a reasonable way shut them up. YMMV, as it obviously does. Frankly, with all the wingnuttery out there on the right, I’m really surprised you picked this obscure story as your prime example. But I’m sure you know that this exercise will end up being a battle of the anecdotes, right? It’s hard to prove whose “this” is worse than the other sides “this”, even if I’m basically on your side in that the wingnuttery on the right seems much more potent than on the left these days. That is, the wingnuttery that makes it’s way up into the ranks of actual legislators, not random people on the internet. Still, confirmation bias is a strong element in any partisan analysis like this. ---
**Author:** ![parkona\_driveway](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/p/d26b3c/32.png) [@parkona\_driveway](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/parkona_driveway)\ **Post date:** [May 1, 2015, 4:08pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/the-no-both-sides-dont-do-this-thread/718990/7 "2015-05-01T16:08:19Z")
> [@RTFirefly](#): > > So he’s having the Texas State Guard “monitor[ing Jade Helm 15] on a continual basis” “to ensure that adequate measures are in place to protect Texans.” I’m still writing Jade Helm 14 on my checks ☹ IMO, Republicans distrust the military because they distrust the commander. They want their own idiot driving the clown car. ---
**Author:** ![Jack\_Batty](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/jack_batty/32/3201_2.png) [@Jack\_Batty](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Jack_Batty)\ **Post date:** [May 1, 2015, 4:13pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/the-no-both-sides-dont-do-this-thread/718990/8 "2015-05-01T16:13:45Z")
> [@ITR\_champion](#): > > And how do you intend to prove there’s no equivalent on the Dem side? Crazy conspiracy theories pour forth from Democrats all the time. Elizabeth Warren said that the _Hobby Lobby_ decision “lets some big corporation deny the women who work for it access to basic medical treatments or prescriptions”. Mark Udall [said](http://www.politifact.com/truth-o-meter/statements/2014/oct/30/naral-pro-choice/ad-colorado-senate-race-suggests-cory-gardner-woul/) that his opponent, if elected, would ban condoms. Wendy Davis [implied](http://m.washingtonexaminer.com/wendy-davis-supporters-try-to-suggest-greg-abbott-is-against-interracial-marriage-but/article/2555034) that Greg Abbott wouldn’t support interracial marriage, while Abbott is in an interracial marriage. Crazy comes in all flavors. Hardly equivalents. Warren’s statement is an interpretation of a law, not a direct statement about actions she is undertaking to protect her constituents from armed insurrection. The second example is hardly a conspiracy theory; it’s hyperbole for the sake of effect. Falls flat, but no one claimed all Democrats are Jon Stewart. And the third isn’t even directly attributed to the politician you’re criticizing. The cite (even the link) says “Wendy Davis \*\*\*supporters \*\*\*try to \*suggest \*…” So you’ve got a state governor “monitoring the Operation on a continual basis, the State Guard will facilitate communications between my office and the commanders of the Operation to ensure that adequate measures are in place to protect Texans.” Vs. An interpretation of a law A hyperbolic campaign ad and a suggestion from supporters of a candidate - from an op-ed, no less. Nice try. ---
**Author:** ![BigDadWolf](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/b/aeb1de/32.png) [@BigDadWolf](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/BigDadWolf)\ **Post date:** [May 1, 2015, 5:16pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/the-no-both-sides-dont-do-this-thread/718990/9 "2015-05-01T17:16:22Z")
> [@ITR\_champion](#): > > Wendy Davis [implied](http://m.washingtonexaminer.com/wendy-davis-supporters-try-to-suggest-greg-abbott-is-against-interracial-marriage-but/article/2555034) that Greg Abbott wouldn’t support interracial marriage, while Abbott is in an interracial marriage. Crazy comes in all flavors. Greg Abbott is in an interracial marriage? Is he married to some besides his current wife who, while Hispanic, is still clearly Caucasian. ---
**Author:** ![RTFirefly](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/r/c77e96/32.png) [@RTFirefly](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/RTFirefly)\ **Post date:** [May 1, 2015, 5:24pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/the-no-both-sides-dont-do-this-thread/718990/10 "2015-05-01T17:24:10Z")
More boilerplate, this time [from Rand’s dad](http://talkingpointsmemo.com/livewire/ron-paul-jade-helm-15): > [@](#): > > Former Rep. Ron Paul (R-TX) posted a video to YouTube on Thursday applauding Texas Gov. Greg Abbott (R) for ordering the State Guard to monitor the upcoming military training exercise that will be taking place in Texas and six other western states. > > \ > > “You know it sounds like he’s sort of sympathizing with people who have great concern about federal takeovers,” Ron Paul said. “And, we don’t know what his personal position is but at least legally he’s saying that he’s gonna send the guard in and sort of watch over what the feds will be doing this summer you know in this so called ‘training.’” > > \ > > “I think this is very good that the governor has done this,” Paul said. “I’m not at the point where I think this is the first step and six months from now you’re gonna have see martial law all around the country and I sure hope I’m right on that.” ---
**Author:** ![mrldii](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/m/a88e4f/32.png) [@mrldii](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/mrldii)\ **Post date:** [May 1, 2015, 5:34pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/the-no-both-sides-dont-do-this-thread/718990/11 "2015-05-01T17:34:44Z")
I was rather taken aback by the Governor’s response to the JH-15 activities, too. Right up there was Rubio’s speech which included ““I don’t care if the polls say that 99 percent of people believe we should normalize relations in Cuba…” Seems like just yesterday our current POTUS was accused of _acting **like** _ he’s a sovereign power who doesn’t need to answer to anyone…and that this is a BAD thing; now, we’re running with - and ON - the principle. _Odd_. ---
**Author:** ![parkona\_driveway](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/p/d26b3c/32.png) [@parkona\_driveway](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/parkona_driveway)\ **Post date:** [May 1, 2015, 6:27pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/the-no-both-sides-dont-do-this-thread/718990/12 "2015-05-01T18:27:27Z")
> [@RTFirefly](#): > > More boilerplate, this time [from Rand’s dad](http://talkingpointsmemo.com/livewire/ron-paul-jade-helm-15): Comment from YouTube: > [@](#): > > There is no harm in questioning the motives of a Government. It is a very healthy aspect of protecting our liberties. Mocking and discrediting anyone who questions authority is the oldest trick in the book for those in power. We can turn the philosophy of law enforcement and tyrants back upon them of …if you have nothing to hide, you dont have anything to worry about. If this is nothing more than just a training exercise, then there is no harm in the exercise being monitored. ---
**Author:** ![Bryan\_Ekers](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/bryan_ekers/32/183_2.png) [@Bryan\_Ekers](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Bryan_Ekers)\ **Post date:** [May 1, 2015, 6:50pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/the-no-both-sides-dont-do-this-thread/718990/13 "2015-05-01T18:50:00Z")
The exercise SHOULD be monitored - it carries a not-insignificant risk of injury to the participants and it’s useless as a training tool unless detailed notes are kept for later study, analysis and review. Suggesting likely third-amendment violations is crazypants, though. ---
**Author:** ![LinusK](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/l/258eb7/32.png) [@LinusK](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/LinusK)\ **Post date:** [May 1, 2015, 8:39pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/the-no-both-sides-dont-do-this-thread/718990/14 "2015-05-01T20:39:03Z")
No, you’re totally right. Something or some combination of factors has driven a substantial part of the Republican Party over the edge. I don’t know if it’s having a black president or something else, but the scope of right wing craziness has climbed the walls of the loony bin, and jumped off, and their elected officials have either drank the kook-aid themselves, or feel compelled to go along with it. ---
**Author:** ![running\_coach](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/running_coach/32/15836_2.png) [@running\_coach](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/running_coach)\ **Post date:** [May 1, 2015, 8:41pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/the-no-both-sides-dont-do-this-thread/718990/15 "2015-05-01T20:41:17Z")
> [@LinusK](#): > > No, you’re totally right. Something or some combination of factors has driven a substantial part of the Republican Party over the edge. I don’t know if it’s having a black president or something else, but the scope of right wing craziness has climbed the walls of the loony bin, and jumped off, **and their elected officials have either drank the kook-aid themselves, or feel compelled to go along with it.** Or they’re mixing up a fresh batch. ---
**Author:** ![Ann\_Hedonia](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/ann_hedonia/32/319_2.png) [@Ann\_Hedonia](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Ann_Hedonia)\ **Post date:** [May 1, 2015, 10:06pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/the-no-both-sides-dont-do-this-thread/718990/16 "2015-05-01T22:06:10Z")
> [@RTFirefly](#): > > Having a state military keep an eye on the U.S. military to assuage wingnut fears that they’re going to do a military takeover of Texas? > > Yeah, I consider that pretty extraordinary. I don’t think you’ve captured the total whack-a-doodle level of unhinged insanity that is Jade Helm 15. Here’s a link – it’s a regular Disneyland of crazy…enjoy [http://www.thecommonsenseshow.com/category/martial-law/](http://www.thecommonsenseshow.com/category/martial-law/) For those that don’t have all day to spend exploring this crazytown, here are some highlights 1. Obama has deliberately enacted immigration policies that weaken our Southern borders for the express purpose of enabling a full scale ISIS invasion. This invasion will ultimately be used to justify the imposition of martial law. ISIS fighters are currently amassing in Mexico. 2. Hackers will bring down the banking system. I’m not sure how this ties into the theories except that the proponents probably find Democrats and computers to be equally incomprehensible. 3. Walmart, Walmart, Walmart Walmart plays a huge role in this upcoming plot to seize the guns and gold of true patriots, who will be “red-listed.” Run-of-the-mill dissidents will be imprisoned in Walmart’s that are being repurposed as detention centers. This is true because some Walmarts have ordered new, sturdier shelving that is 2 Republicans wide. And all these closed Walmarts all over the USA – in Texas, Florida, Las Vegas … are connected by underground tunnels. This has something to do with plumbing supplies. An actual WTF? level quote on this is: “It is clear that tunnels are connecting the Walmart under the guise of plumbing supplies.” Wait, there’s more!! Walmarts all across the country have been outfitted with computers running DHS facial recognition software. This will be used to indentify and capture red-listed dissidents. So if you go into a Walmart and you love America, you may never check out. 1. Super dissidents are going to Gitmo!!! 2. Canada is going to help the evil socialist Obamaites enforce martial law. This has something to do with a bunch of closed Target stores in Canada. 3. Something nefarious about Cuba, because Obama. And the Muslim Brotherhood is all up in there, too. 4. The really rich and powerful folks are set to flee to New Zealand and other remote locations without an Obama. 5. Jade Helm 15 also features Death Squads Forced relocation of Tens of Millions Americans FEMA camps Death Domes Black Helicopters Red Dawn World War 3 ---
**Author:** ![TimeWinder](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/t/bcef8e/32.png) [@TimeWinder](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/TimeWinder)\ **Post date:** [May 1, 2015, 10:24pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/the-no-both-sides-dont-do-this-thread/718990/17 "2015-05-01T22:24:43Z")
What I don’t understand is why Obama waited until the twilight of his time in office to implement all these nefarious plans. Just think about all the extra time we could have had under glorious Sharia Law and with all the troublemakers firmly flushed down the Walmart plumbing tunnels. Now it’s going to have to be done on a compressed timetable, and we’re sure to miss a few of those God Fearing True Americans, thus allowing them to build up their personal arsenals in New Zealand and re-invade in a few years. The deportations and detainments authorized under the ACA should have started immediately upon Obama’s taking office in order to make it more convenient for us liberal folks to suppress Christianity completely in a more leisurely fashion. ---
**Author:** ![mrldii](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/m/a88e4f/32.png) [@mrldii](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/mrldii)\ **Post date:** [May 1, 2015, 10:32pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/the-no-both-sides-dont-do-this-thread/718990/18 "2015-05-01T22:32:48Z")
@ TimeWinder: Ha, ha!!! NICE!!! Actually, according the snippet of the radio show I saw when first hearing about it, there IS no “twilight of his time in office”…Obama will NEVER be leaving, just as he’s planned, all along. ---
**Author:** ![Velocity](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/velocity/32/18006_2.png) [@Velocity](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Velocity)\ **Post date:** [May 1, 2015, 10:34pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/the-no-both-sides-dont-do-this-thread/718990/19 "2015-05-01T22:34:17Z")
Both sides obviously stand for different policies or beliefs. But the tactics they use are often similar: Attack ads, appeal to fear, emotional arguments, attempts to get out the vote, exaggeration, hypocrisy and “We cannot afford to lose this election!” hype. ---
**Author:** ![sqweels](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/s/f19dbf/32.png) [@sqweels](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/sqweels)\ **Post date:** [May 1, 2015, 10:36pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/the-no-both-sides-dont-do-this-thread/718990/20 "2015-05-01T22:36:59Z")
And the final insult: When none of these crazy conspiracies come to fruition, the conspiracy theorists will give themselves credit for preventing them. [Next page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/the-no-both-sides-dont-do-this-thread/718990.md?page=2)