# The "No, Both Sides Don't Do This" Thread **URL:** \ **Category:** Great Debates\ **Created:** [May 1, 2015, 1:18pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/the-no-both-sides-dont-do-this-thread/718990 "2015-05-01T13:18:46Z")\ **Posts on this page:** 20\ **Page:** 8
**Author:** ![Fuzzy\_wuzzy](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/f/a8b319/32.png) [@Fuzzy\_wuzzy](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Fuzzy_wuzzy)\ **Post date:** [May 6, 2015, 4:08pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/the-no-both-sides-dont-do-this-thread/718990/141 "2015-05-06T16:08:37Z")
I think we can place Al Gore in the Democratic wingnut camp. It’s one thing to be concerned about climate change but Gore is a pure fearmonger. You don’t get much more establishment Democrat than Vice President and Presidential candidate, Al Gore. ---
**Author:** ![Saint\_Cad](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/saint_cad/32/18907_2.png) [@Saint\_Cad](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Saint_Cad)\ **Post date:** [May 6, 2015, 4:22pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/the-no-both-sides-dont-do-this-thread/718990/142 "2015-05-06T16:22:14Z")
> [@BobLibDem](#): > > He meant to say 47 states or perhaps 57 contests when you account for the territories. One time slip of the tongue. Palin repeatedly doubled down on her claim that geographical proximity gave her foreign policy expertise. So yet again I am proven right. Since Obama said it, it’s a slip of the tongue. As for Alaska and Russia: Are you claiming Palin never was in a trade delegation involving Russia? [The Northern Forum](http://www.northernforum.org/index.php/en/) doesn’t meet in Anchorage and does not have a representative from the Alaskan governor’s office? She was never briefed on Russian air incursions by the Alaskan Air National Guard? ---
**Author:** ![eschereal](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/eschereal/32/18939_2.png) [@eschereal](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/eschereal)\ **Post date:** [May 6, 2015, 4:26pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/the-no-both-sides-dont-do-this-thread/718990/143 "2015-05-06T16:26:07Z")
We should also not lose sight of the fact that Palin was trying to evoke an anxiety reflex by mentioning _ **Russia** _, that _evil empire_. They used to be our arch-enemy, that ought to count for something, right? Putin might attack us with planes! (And, technically, it looks like you might be able to see the Russian mainland from a mountain on the Alaska mainland. On a good day.) ---
**Author:** ![iiandyiiii](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/iiandyiiii/32/7924_2.png) [@iiandyiiii](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/iiandyiiii)\ **Post date:** [May 6, 2015, 4:27pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/the-no-both-sides-dont-do-this-thread/718990/144 "2015-05-06T16:27:39Z")
> [@Fuzzy\_wuzzy](#): > > I think we can place Al Gore in the Democratic wingnut camp. It’s one thing to be concerned about climate change but Gore is a pure fearmonger. You don’t get much more establishment Democrat than Vice President and Presidential candidate, Al Gore. What wingnut things has Gore said? ---
**Author:** ![Shodan](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/s/9f8e36/32.png) [@Shodan](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Shodan)\ **Post date:** [May 6, 2015, 4:34pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/the-no-both-sides-dont-do-this-thread/718990/145 "2015-05-06T16:34:33Z")
> [@Fuzzy\_wuzzy](#): > > I think we can place Al Gore in the Democratic wingnut camp. It’s one thing to be concerned about climate change but Gore is a pure fearmonger. You don’t get much more establishment Democrat than Vice President and Presidential candidate, Al Gore. Nonsense. We should rely on Algore’s ideas about tapping the geothermal energy of the earth, whose core is at a temperature of millions of degrees. At least now that we have drills that will not melt once you go down two kilometers. That’s science! Regards, Shodan ---
**Author:** ![BobLibDem](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/boblibdem/32/3149_2.png) [@BobLibDem](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/BobLibDem)\ **Post date:** [May 6, 2015, 4:40pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/the-no-both-sides-dont-do-this-thread/718990/146 "2015-05-06T16:40:28Z")
> [@Saint\_Cad](#): > > So yet again I am proven right. Since Obama said it, it’s a slip of the tongue. As for Alaska and Russia: > Are you claiming Palin never was in a trade delegation involving Russia? > [The Northern Forum](http://www.northernforum.org/index.php/en/) doesn’t meet in Anchorage and does not have a representative from the Alaskan governor’s office? > She was never briefed on Russian air incursions by the Alaskan Air National Guard? There probably aren’t too many governors who don’t participate in trade delegations. Had she mentioned that rather than mere geographic proximity, she would have been better off. She might have been better off to mention participation with The Northern Forum than fixating on proximity. As for air incursions, I doubt that many occurred and if she had to take any action it would be with clearance from the Pentagon. Maybe she could have mentioned all of your points, but she didn’t. She said in a nutshell, I have foreign policy experience because Alaska is right next to Russia. ---
**Author:** ![Terr](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/t/839c29/32.png) [@Terr](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Terr)\ **Post date:** [May 6, 2015, 4:44pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/the-no-both-sides-dont-do-this-thread/718990/147 "2015-05-06T16:44:31Z")
> [@iiandyiiii](#): > > What wingnut things has Gore said? “People think about geothermal energy — when they think about it at all — in terms of the hot water bubbling up in some places, but two kilometers or so down in most places there are these incredibly hot rocks, ’cause the interior of the earth is extremely hot, several million degrees” Two stupidities here. It’s not “several million” but “several thousand” - in the center of the Earth. And, two kilometers down the “incredibly hot” rocks are maybe at most 100 degrees Celcius. ---
**Author:** ![eschereal](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/eschereal/32/18939_2.png) [@eschereal](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/eschereal)\ **Post date:** [May 6, 2015, 5:21pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/the-no-both-sides-dont-do-this-thread/718990/148 "2015-05-06T17:21:07Z")
The geothermal temperature gradient appears to be 25°C/km on average: that is the temperature difference between freezing and sweating. If you drilled a hole a couple thousand feet, plus or minus, and pumped air through it, you could keep your home a comfortable temperature throughout a rough winter with no more energy than it takes to run a small fan or two. If we could do this across the country, there would be a pretty massive reduction in national energy demand. It would be expensive, to do that for each home, but I think it would be a net gain. So, yeah, Al Gore did exaggerate the numbers, but his case is not entirely without merit. ---
**Author:** ![Shodan](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/s/9f8e36/32.png) [@Shodan](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Shodan)\ **Post date:** [May 6, 2015, 5:26pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/the-no-both-sides-dont-do-this-thread/718990/149 "2015-05-06T17:26:16Z")
> [@eschereal](#): > > The geothermal temperature gradient appears to be 25°C/km on average: that is the temperature difference between freezing and sweating. If you drilled a hole a couple thousand feet, plus or minus, and pumped air through it, you could keep your home a comfortable temperature throughout a rough winter with no more energy than it takes to run a small fan or two. You think it would only take a small fan or two to pump air thru a hole a kilometer deep, in sufficient amounts to warm a small house? Regards, Shodan ---
**Author:** ![eschereal](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/eschereal/32/18939_2.png) [@eschereal](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/eschereal)\ **Post date:** [May 6, 2015, 5:32pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/the-no-both-sides-dont-do-this-thread/718990/150 "2015-05-06T17:32:48Z")
> [@Shodan](#): > > You think it would only take a small fan or two to pump air thru a hole a kilometer deep, in sufficient amounts to warm a small house? > > Regards, > Shodan I suppose it depends on the exact definition of “small”. ---
**Author:** ![Shodan](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/s/9f8e36/32.png) [@Shodan](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Shodan)\ **Post date:** [May 6, 2015, 6:00pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/the-no-both-sides-dont-do-this-thread/718990/151 "2015-05-06T18:00:43Z")
Sure, as long as “small” means “large”. There are reasons why geothermal isn’t used more extensively, and those reasons aren’t what Algore says they are. Water is generally used as the exchange medium, not air, which is why geothermal is generally only practical in places like Iceland where geysers and such already bring hot water to the surface or near it. Add to that the fact that digging a kilometer-deep hole isn’t something you can do with a backhoe over the weekend, and the notion of one in every backyard in America presents other difficulties as well. Regards, Shodan ---
**Author:** ![Sinaptics](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/s/278dde/32.png) [@Sinaptics](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Sinaptics)\ **Post date:** [May 6, 2015, 6:11pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/the-no-both-sides-dont-do-this-thread/718990/152 "2015-05-06T18:11:57Z")
> [@elucidator](#): > > I’m with **John** on this one! I realize that his is a bold position, but I have never been one to shrink from an extreme position simply because it is too outlandish, and am firmly prepared to withstand the scorn and derision it is likely to attract. > > You know what we _could_ do? We could start a custom here whereby we call upon each other to verify facts by citation by using some pithy and succinct phrase, something along the lines of “Can you offer us a citation for those remarks?”. I consider myself somewhat of a connoisseur of sarcasm and that, my fellow, was a superlative specimen. Well done. ---
**Author:** ![John\_Mace](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/john_mace/32/185_2.png) [@John\_Mace](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/John_Mace)\ **Post date:** [May 6, 2015, 6:22pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/the-no-both-sides-dont-do-this-thread/718990/153 "2015-05-06T18:22:11Z")
> [@elucidator](#): > > I’m with **John** on this one! I realize that his is a bold position, but I have never been one to shrink from an extreme position simply because it is too outlandish, and am firmly prepared to withstand the scorn and derision it is likely to attract. > > You know what we _could_ do? We could start a custom here whereby we call upon each other to verify facts by citation by using some pithy and succinct phrase, something along the lines of “Can you offer us a citation for those remarks?”. Not sure if you noticed, since you kinda jumped in at the end here, but that is exactly what started this little side discussion. There was an unwillingness back up a certain assertion with a cite. Post 101 to be exact. ---
**Author:** ![eschereal](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/eschereal/32/18939_2.png) [@eschereal](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/eschereal)\ **Post date:** [May 6, 2015, 6:27pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/the-no-both-sides-dont-do-this-thread/718990/154 "2015-05-06T18:27:25Z")
Because you were trying to be pedantic and failing miserably at it. ---
**Author:** ![John\_Mace](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/john_mace/32/185_2.png) [@John\_Mace](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/John_Mace)\ **Post date:** [May 6, 2015, 6:31pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/the-no-both-sides-dont-do-this-thread/718990/155 "2015-05-06T18:31:54Z")
> [@eschereal](#): > > Because you were trying to be pedantic and failing miserably at it. Is that a fact? I notice that no one has been willing to say whether they accept my interpretation of Maxine Waters’ position or not. Are you? ---
**Author:** ![iiandyiiii](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/iiandyiiii/32/7924_2.png) [@iiandyiiii](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/iiandyiiii)\ **Post date:** [May 6, 2015, 6:40pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/the-no-both-sides-dont-do-this-thread/718990/156 "2015-05-06T18:40:29Z")
> [@Terr](#): > > “People think about geothermal energy — when they think about it at all — in terms of the hot water bubbling up in some places, but two kilometers or so down in most places there are these incredibly hot rocks, ’cause the interior of the earth is extremely hot, several million degrees” > > Two stupidities here. It’s not “several million” but “several thousand” - in the center of the Earth. And, two kilometers down the “incredibly hot” rocks are maybe at most 100 degrees Celcius. Dumb, but “dumb” ain’t “wingnut”. Has Gore said anything wingnutty? Comparable wingnuttery from the other side might include stuff like “Obama is a psychopath”, “Obama is conspiring with the enemy to bring down America”, “Liberals want the terrorists to win”, “the ACA has death panels which might kill your grandmother”, “the military exercise in Texas is secretly meant to bring down Texas”, “FEMA is prepping concentration camps”, and similar. ---
**Author:** ![Terr](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/t/839c29/32.png) [@Terr](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Terr)\ **Post date:** [May 6, 2015, 6:44pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/the-no-both-sides-dont-do-this-thread/718990/157 "2015-05-06T18:44:15Z")
> [@iiandyiiii](#): > > Dumb, but “dumb” ain’t “wingnut”. Has Gore said anything wingnutty? IMO what I cited was “wingnut”. ---
**Author:** ![septimus](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/septimus/32/410_2.png) [@septimus](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/septimus)\ **Post date:** [May 6, 2015, 6:49pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/the-no-both-sides-dont-do-this-thread/718990/158 "2015-05-06T18:49:08Z")
What “This” are we speaking of in _“No, Both Sides Don’t Do This”_ ? It is malicious lies about one’s opponents or political facts that annoy me, not stupidity or ignorance about history or science. And apparent ignorance about science can be divided into two types: (1) slight misconceptions or slips of the tongue, and (2) frightening stupidity. The worry that Guam would tip over qualifies for the latter as, perhaps, does Cruz’ belief that a debate in Galileo’s time was the flatness of the Earth. Substituting “millions” for “thousands” in conversation is a minor lapse. I’ve accidentally made similar slips, and I do know numbers. To raise Al Gore’s lapse as a counterpoint to GOP prattle about Obama’s birth certificate, etc. seems an act of desperation. > [@Shodan](#): > > Nonsense. We should rely on Algore’s ideas about tapping the geothermal energy of the earth, whose core is at a temperature of millions of degrees. At least now that we have drills that will not melt once you go down two kilometers. > > That’s science! > > Regards, > Shodan I think inability to spell “Al Gore” tells us more about intelligence than a numeric lapse does. ---
**Author:** ![iiandyiiii](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/iiandyiiii/32/7924_2.png) [@iiandyiiii](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/iiandyiiii)\ **Post date:** [May 6, 2015, 6:50pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/the-no-both-sides-dont-do-this-thread/718990/159 "2015-05-06T18:50:42Z")
> [@Terr](#): > > IMO what I cited was “wingnut”. In your opinion is confusing millions with thousands and getting the geology wrong about how hot and how deep as “wingnut” as “Obama is trying to bring about the apocalypse”? ---
**Author:** ![Terr](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/t/839c29/32.png) [@Terr](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Terr)\ **Post date:** [May 6, 2015, 6:51pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/the-no-both-sides-dont-do-this-thread/718990/160 "2015-05-06T18:51:49Z")
> [@septimus](#): > > Substituting “millions” for “thousands” in conversation is a minor lapse. I’ve accidentally made similar slips, and I do know numbers. To raise Al Gore’s lapse as a counterpoint to GOP prattle about Obama’s birth certificate, etc. seems an act of desperation. The fact that in the same paragraph he claimed there are “incredibly hot rocks” at 2km depth shows that it was no lapse. [Previous page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/the-no-both-sides-dont-do-this-thread/718990.md?page=7) [Next page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/the-no-both-sides-dont-do-this-thread/718990.md?page=9)