# The "no calling anyone a troll" rule is dumb **URL:** \ **Category:** The BBQ Pit\ **Created:** [October 11, 2005, 1:23am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/the-no-calling-anyone-a-troll-rule-is-dumb/325676 "2005-10-11T01:23:45Z")\ **Posts on this page:** 20\ **Page:** 4
**Author:** ![Skywatcher](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/skywatcher/32/254_2.png) [@Skywatcher](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Skywatcher)\ **Post date:** [October 11, 2005, 5:32pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/the-no-calling-anyone-a-troll-rule-is-dumb/325676/61 "2005-10-11T17:32:31Z")
> [@Maureen](#): > > I don’t think it’s about **Graham** specifically. Yes, that instance is what instigated the thread, but there have been plenty of occasions where it was fairly obvious people are trolling for a reaction. And because no one is allowed to call them on it, that person feels free to push the envelope as far as they like. > > Yeah, yeah, ignore it or report it. Why should I have to report it? I thought the idea was that on this board, people are supposed to self police as much as possible and be mature enough to settle most disputes without having to run to mommy and daddy for intervention. Is it really better for the mods to be flooded with email accusations of trolling than someone in the Pit making that accusation? Or have rules for the Pit changed? Are we now supposed to be sweetness and light here, as well? We should be ignoring trolls, period. You know, not feeding them and all that. Not calling a troll for what they are is a good thing and calling someone a troll who isn’t is not a good thing. ---
**Author:** ![5que](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/5/3bc359/32.png) [@5que](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/5que)\ **Post date:** [October 11, 2005, 5:35pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/the-no-calling-anyone-a-troll-rule-is-dumb/325676/62 "2005-10-11T17:35:15Z")
> [@jrfranchi](#): > > **Cavorting druids** doesn’t sound too bad. I have described myself as Druidic occasionally when press about religion. Heh. When I had to go into a Catholic hospital to have my widsom teeth out, I was warned they put your religion on your hospital bracelet. So I put down Druid. It did tend to keep the nuns away. And I’m continually amazed at how much energy people put into complaining about rules around here. I love our Mod overlords. ---
**Author:** ![Syntropy](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/s/65b543/32.png) [@Syntropy](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Syntropy)\ **Post date:** [October 11, 2005, 5:43pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/the-no-calling-anyone-a-troll-rule-is-dumb/325676/63 "2005-10-11T17:43:38Z")
> [@Lute Skywatcher](#): > > We should be ignoring trolls, period. You know, not feeding them and all that. Not calling a troll for what they are is a good thing and calling someone a troll who isn’t is not a good thing. Yes, and not being a troll in the first place is a good thing, too. Would that everyone played nice and by the rules. Not everyone does. Sometimes, ignoring the bully on the playground doesn’t make the bully go away. Reporting the post to a mod and yelling “a troll! Look, a troll!” will serve to get a mod in the thread, who will slap a wrist and say “now, now, mustn’t do!” The troll will be respectful and penitent and be right back to trolling a week later. There’s a point where the idea that people will treat you as you treat them crosses over into being a door mat. We’ve passed it. ---
**Author:** ![Skywatcher](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/skywatcher/32/254_2.png) [@Skywatcher](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Skywatcher)\ **Post date:** [October 11, 2005, 5:56pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/the-no-calling-anyone-a-troll-rule-is-dumb/325676/64 "2005-10-11T17:56:36Z")
> [@Maureen](#): > > Yes, and not being a troll in the first place is a good thing, too. Would that everyone played nice and by the rules. Not everyone does. Sometimes, ignoring the bully on the playground doesn’t make the bully go away. Reporting the post to a mod and yelling “a troll! Look, a troll!” will serve to get a mod in the thread, who will slap a wrist and say “now, now, mustn’t do!” The troll will be respectful and penitent and be right back to trolling a week later. Yeah, and get themselves banned in most cases. ---
**Author:** ![Larry\_Borgia](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/larry_borgia/32/156_2.png) [@Larry\_Borgia](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Larry_Borgia)\ **Post date:** [October 11, 2005, 6:11pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/the-no-calling-anyone-a-troll-rule-is-dumb/325676/65 "2005-10-11T18:11:36Z")
I’ve never called anyone a troll, and may never call anyone a troll in the future, but I’m with **cricetus**. It’s a stupid rule. First we can call people Fucking assholes, Goat-felching mother-rapers, Brain damaged scumbuckets, and all sorts of insults; we can accuse people of being racists, liars, criminals, morons, or gullible dupes; but we can’t call people trolls. All I can say is 😕 . Why is this the forbidden insult? The closest I’ve seen to a reason is that accusations of trollery are somehow “junior-modding.” First, so what? And second, no they’re not. If I say, “dude, you’re being a troll” how am I being a junior-mod anymore than if I said “dude, you’re being a jerk,” or “dude, you’re being a bigot.” If someone really starts putting on junior-mod airs, then the mods can come down on him/her. But I don’t see why simply pointing out trollery when one sees it is junior modding. Second, there are times when calling someone a troll may be justified. There may be times when a post need not be reported to a mod. Say someone posts an offensive remark. Someone might want to know if the poster was serious or if they’re trying to get a rise out of people. So they’ll ask: Are you being serious or are you trolling? Or, we could go even further and say, “I don’t think your serious, guy, I think you’re just trolling.” This is a perfectly reasonable response to certain outlandish comments. Not everything needs to be taken to the mod. I mean, this is the pit. Obviously accusations of trollery should be confined to this forum, as all other personal attacks are. But the pit is the place where we can tell **Jerky P. Jerkman from Jerk City** exactly what we think of him (or her). If we think **Jerky** is a troll, we should be allowed to say it. Just my $0.02 ---
**Author:** ![Skywatcher](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/skywatcher/32/254_2.png) [@Skywatcher](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Skywatcher)\ **Post date:** [October 11, 2005, 6:32pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/the-no-calling-anyone-a-troll-rule-is-dumb/325676/66 "2005-10-11T18:32:02Z")
> [@Larry Borgia](#): > > Say someone posts an offensive remark. Someone might want to know if the poster was serious or if they’re trying to get a rise out of people. So they’ll ask: Are you being serious or are you trolling? Or, we could go even further and say, “I don’t think your serious, guy, I think you’re just trolling.” This is a perfectly reasonable response to certain outlandish comments. Not everything needs to be taken to the mod. There is a way around the rule: attack the post but not the poster. Calling someone’s post “trollish” is perfectly within the rules. ---
**Author:** ![Larry\_Borgia](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/larry_borgia/32/156_2.png) [@Larry\_Borgia](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Larry_Borgia)\ **Post date:** [October 11, 2005, 6:33pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/the-no-calling-anyone-a-troll-rule-is-dumb/325676/67 "2005-10-11T18:33:59Z")
> [@Lute Skywatcher](#): > > There is a way around the rule: attack the post but not the poster. Calling someone’s post “trollish” is perfectly within the rules. I’d always assumed calling someone’s post “trollish” was also against the rules. ---
**Author:** ![wolf\_meister](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/wolf_meister/32/15202_2.png) [@wolf\_meister](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/wolf_meister)\ **Post date:** [October 11, 2005, 6:43pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/the-no-calling-anyone-a-troll-rule-is-dumb/325676/68 "2005-10-11T18:43:22Z")
I agree with **Lary Borgia** and **cricetus**. _Not_ being able to call someone a troll is a rule that should be abolished. I mean, if you see someone who has “guest” status, with 3 postings and starts a thread - “I am 100% in favor of clubbing baby seals to death”, isn’t it obvious it is someone who resides in Troll City? So, to respond to such a thread, people _could_ call that person all kinds of vicious insults, thus feeding the troll, and getting just the results the troll wanted. However, the unexpected response would be “Hey jerk. You are a troll, who purposely started that thread in order to start a ruckus. We know what you are, what you are doing, and why. So don’t stick around waiting for some brouhaha that will never materialize. So long troll.” Maybe I don’t see the situation properly but to me, such a response would stop the troll dead in its tracks. Should the newer members wish to chime in with insults, outrage or whatever, the more experienced “Dopers” could explain that the thread was purposely initiated by a troll purposely to annoy people. When that is plainly stated the troll loses all effectiveness don’t you think? ---
**Author:** ![Skywatcher](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/skywatcher/32/254_2.png) [@Skywatcher](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Skywatcher)\ **Post date:** [October 11, 2005, 6:45pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/the-no-calling-anyone-a-troll-rule-is-dumb/325676/69 "2005-10-11T18:45:15Z")
> [@Larry Borgia](#): > > I’d always assumed calling someone’s post “trollish” was also against the rules. [Gaudere](http://boards.straightdope.com/sdmb/showpost.php?p=4823208&postcount=29) established that it was acceptable in GD and, to my knowledge, this applies to the entire board and has not changed. ---
**Author:** ![Larry\_Borgia](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/larry_borgia/32/156_2.png) [@Larry\_Borgia](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Larry_Borgia)\ **Post date:** [October 11, 2005, 6:49pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/the-no-calling-anyone-a-troll-rule-is-dumb/325676/70 "2005-10-11T18:49:47Z")
> [@Lute Skywatcher](#): > > [Gaudere](http://boards.straightdope.com/sdmb/showpost.php?p=4823208&postcount=29) established that it was acceptable in GD and, to my knowledge, this applies to the entire board and has not changed. Huh. Learn something new every day. I still stand by my position, though somewhat less so. ---
**Author:** ![Skywatcher](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/skywatcher/32/254_2.png) [@Skywatcher](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Skywatcher)\ **Post date:** [October 11, 2005, 6:50pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/the-no-calling-anyone-a-troll-rule-is-dumb/325676/71 "2005-10-11T18:50:16Z")
> [@wolf\_meister](#): > > However, the unexpected response would be “Hey jerk. You are a troll, who purposely started that thread in order to start a ruckus. We know what you are, what you are doing, and why. So don’t stick around waiting for some brouhaha that will never materialize. So long troll.” Unexpected? No, I think that would give a troll exactly what they want! Trolls live for attention and being publicly recognized for what they are is the highest attention they could hope to achieve. ---
**Author:** ![Giraffe](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/giraffe/32/129_2.png) [@Giraffe](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Giraffe)\ **Post date:** [October 11, 2005, 6:56pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/the-no-calling-anyone-a-troll-rule-is-dumb/325676/72 "2005-10-11T18:56:12Z")
I’ve never been a big fan of the “no calling anyone a troll rule” myself, and in fact started [a thread](http://boards.straightdope.com/sdmb/showthread.php?t=323401&page=1&pp=40) a few months ago to discuss changing the rule in the Pit. In the end, while a number of posters supported getting rid of the rule, it wasn’t clear how we could do so without unleashing a flood of junior modding. Some may argue that junior modding, at least in the Pit, isn’t a big deal. Me, I’ve always found it really annoying. On some message boards and newsgroups I’ve visited, the junior mods are more obnoxious than the trolls. So, what to do? ---
**Author:** ![Syntropy](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/s/65b543/32.png) [@Syntropy](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Syntropy)\ **Post date:** [October 11, 2005, 7:15pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/the-no-calling-anyone-a-troll-rule-is-dumb/325676/73 "2005-10-11T19:15:54Z")
> [@Lute Skywatcher](#): > > There is a way around the rule: attack the post but not the poster. Calling someone’s post “trollish” is perfectly within the rules. Except that this is the Pit, where we attack people. **Lute** , I agree with you 99 times out of a hundred, and for the most part I agree the rules in place are necessary. This time we’re going to have to agree to disagree. While I will go along with your assertion that trolls will get banned within a week, I would add to it the proviso: “if they are fairly new posters.” If they are established posters, it takes some significantly bad behavior to get banned. Many established posters know exactly where the trolling line is, and skate just over it often. It isn’t always a case of giving them the attention they crave. With the posters I’m thinking of, more often than not it’s being able to get away with it, whether they’re reported or not. And they _don’t_ get the hint if we ignore it. They take it as a sign that they can disrupt threads and be jerks whenever they feel like it. **Giraffe** , I don’t know what to tell you. We seem to have edged away from pitting other posters. I believe not being able to call a troll a troll has effectively muzzled a lot of people, even in the Pit. Let us go back to calling each other on jerkish behavior. If it’s a case of a simple misunderstanding, the offending party can explain the comment, apologize, and we can all get on with life. Reporting these dirty little comments to you and the other mods just makes for a buffer we don’t need. In fact, I think it increases resentment. ---
**Author:** ![Knowed\_Out](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/knowed_out/32/7380_2.png) [@Knowed\_Out](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Knowed_Out)\ **Post date:** [October 11, 2005, 7:17pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/the-no-calling-anyone-a-troll-rule-is-dumb/325676/74 "2005-10-11T19:17:19Z")
> [@Miller](#): > > Where did the mods say they closed the thread because of false trolling accusations? I thought it was pretty clear they closed it out of concern for **Graham** ’s mental health. > [@](#): > > fluiddruid > Moderator Join Date: Nov 2001 > Posts: 1,378 > Location: Des Moines, IA > > Accusations of trolling are not permitted on the SDMB, cricetus and Excalibre. > > This situation is getting out of hand and will be discussed by the SDMB staff. Until that time, this topic needs to be dropped. Thread closed. Well, I suppose a case could be made for them not differentiating between “true” and “false” accusations, but the reason for closing the thread is otherwise pretty fucking obvious. Plus, \*\*fluiddruid \*\* doesn’t seem to be shedding any tears on **Graham** ’s behalf. ---
**Author:** ![Skywatcher](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/skywatcher/32/254_2.png) [@Skywatcher](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Skywatcher)\ **Post date:** [October 11, 2005, 7:31pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/the-no-calling-anyone-a-troll-rule-is-dumb/325676/75 "2005-10-11T19:31:12Z")
> [@Maureen](#): > > While I will go along with your assertion that trolls will get banned within a week, I would add to it the proviso: “if they are fairly new posters.” If they are established posters, it takes some significantly bad behavior to get banned. Many established posters know exactly where the trolling line is, and skate just over it often. It isn’t always a case of giving them the attention they crave. With the posters I’m thinking of, more often than not it’s being able to get away with it, whether they’re reported or not. And they _don’t_ get the hint if we ignore it. They take it as a sign that they can disrupt threads and be jerks whenever they feel like it. Yeah, I know; cases such as **december** ’s is why I said “most cases”. Peace. ---
**Author:** ![JohnBckWLD](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/j/d6d6ee/32.png) [@JohnBckWLD](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/JohnBckWLD)\ **Post date:** [October 11, 2005, 7:43pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/the-no-calling-anyone-a-troll-rule-is-dumb/325676/76 "2005-10-11T19:43:27Z")
The No-Troll/Sock accusations rule is useless. The board admins want people to report suspected trolls - not accuse them publicly. But that really puts a damper on things. For starters, no one - with the possible exception of a mind reader - can definitively identify a troll. Devil’s advocacy, naive curiosity or attention whoring could very well be misconstrued as troll-like behavior. Troll used to be a very popular pit label - November 1999 Threads: [Troll List](http://boards.straightdope.com/sdmb/showthread.php?t=5385&highlight=troll)[Troll rampage](http://boards.straightdope.com/sdmb/showthread.php?t=5475&highlight=troll) [Troll alert!! Troll alert!!](http://boards.straightdope.com/sdmb/showthread.php?t=4860&highlight=troll) [Nickrz - Troll or Moderator](http://boards.straightdope.com/sdmb/showthread.php?t=4830&highlight=troll) [Confessions of a troll](http://boards.straightdope.com/sdmb/showthread.php?t=4788&highlight=troll) [rebj0rn as a troll, but just as stupid](http://boards.straightdope.com/sdmb/showthread.php?t=4755&highlight=troll) What if you’re entertained by someone you feel is trolling? What’s the harm in asking them publicly? A label like goat-felcher is OK-but pit accusations of trolling are a no-no? It’s a real Catch 22. If you’re the type of person who reports a poster for troll-like behavior; they’re investigated (usually squashed) and all those memorable, funny and occasionally informative threads get closed. But, if you make a public post that insinuates you’re on to them - they usually ratchet up their activity & provide even more amusing material before go into hyper-troll burn-out. I opt for the latter course. Trolls are people too! ---
**Author:** ![Contrapuntal](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/c/e274bd/32.png) [@Contrapuntal](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Contrapuntal)\ **Post date:** [October 11, 2005, 8:04pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/the-no-calling-anyone-a-troll-rule-is-dumb/325676/77 "2005-10-11T20:04:49Z")
> [@Knowed Out](#): > > Well, I suppose a case could be made for them not differentiating between “true” and “false” accusations, but the reason for closing the thread is otherwise pretty fucking obvious. Plus, \*\*fluiddruid \*\* doesn’t seem to be shedding any tears on **Graham** ’s behalf. I think you have it wrong. Two accusations of trolling is not “getting out of hand.” **Lefty** asked the mods to look in and see if it needed closing, and several posters felt it needed to be closed. The thread that spawned it was closed as well. My guess is that there is genuine concern for Graham’s well-being. ---
**Author:** ![Giraffe](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/giraffe/32/129_2.png) [@Giraffe](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Giraffe)\ **Post date:** [October 11, 2005, 8:57pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/the-no-calling-anyone-a-troll-rule-is-dumb/325676/78 "2005-10-11T20:57:21Z")
> [@Maureen](#): > > **Giraffe** , I don’t know what to tell you. We seem to have edged away from pitting other posters. I believe not being able to call a troll a troll has effectively muzzled a lot of people, even in the Pit. Let us go back to calling each other on jerkish behavior. If it’s a case of a simple misunderstanding, the offending party can explain the comment, apologize, and we can all get on with life. While I agree the troll rule can be inconvenient and unwieldy at times, I don’t see how it muzzles people from calling out other posters for jerkish behavior. I think a far bigger part of the problem is that more and more people seem to want to use the rules and moderators to get rid of posters they don’t like or disagree with, rather than confronting them. > [@](#): > > Reporting these dirty little comments to you and the other mods just makes for a buffer we don’t need. In fact, I think it increases resentment. That resentment is exactly why we don’t allow junior modding. Think of how much worse things would be in terms of board drama if those reports were done publicly. ---
**Author:** ![Syntropy](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/s/65b543/32.png) [@Syntropy](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Syntropy)\ **Post date:** [October 11, 2005, 9:17pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/the-no-calling-anyone-a-troll-rule-is-dumb/325676/79 "2005-10-11T21:17:29Z")
> [@Giraffe](#): > > While I agree the troll rule can be inconvenient and unwieldy at times, I don’t see how it muzzles people from calling out other posters for jerkish behavior. I think a far bigger part of the problem is that more and more people seem to want to use the rules and moderators to get rid of posters they don’t like or disagree with, rather than confronting them. Yes, but if they were allowed to start a Pit thread on an accusation of trolling, they’d get several (hopefully) objective opinions as to whether or not they were correct. Pitting someone doesn’t automatically go the way of the OP. It backfires in a lot of cases. God knows there is no shortage of people around here happy to tell you when you’re wrong. > [@](#): > > That resentment is exactly why we don’t allow junior modding. Think of how much worse things would be in terms of board drama if those reports were done publicly. Exactly. Forget public reporting. Forget reporting at all. Don’t involve the mods. Start a Pit thread. “Poster xxxxxx is a big fat troll and here’s why.” Or whatever. Poster xxxxxx can then explain their actions behind whatever thread they’ve managed to derail. Having to answer to mods instead of the person poster xxxxxx has offended doesn’t do a lot of good. The offended poster doesn’t know what, if anything, has been done. Poster xxxxxx says mia culpa, the matter is dropped, they’re on their best behavior for a couple weeks, then it’s back to trolling. Now. You let someone being pitted answer their accusers, they don’t pull that crap again after a decent pitting, and chances are everyone forgets it after a few days. As opposed to it sitting and festering in people’s memories. “Damn, he was an asshole in that thread. I reported him, and look, he’s back doing the same shit.” ---
**Author:** ![Kamino\_Neko](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/kamino_neko/32/34_2.png) [@Kamino\_Neko](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Kamino_Neko)\ **Post date:** [October 11, 2005, 10:06pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/the-no-calling-anyone-a-troll-rule-is-dumb/325676/80 "2005-10-11T22:06:38Z")
> [@Maureen](#): > > Exactly. Forget public reporting. Forget reporting at all. Don’t involve the mods. Start a Pit thread. “Poster xxxxxx is a big fat troll and here’s why.” That’s called ‘Feeding the troll’. Trolls don’t troll for positive attention. They want to stir shit. And getting into a shit fight about whether they’re trolls is a great chance to do just that. > [@](#): > > You let someone being pitted answer their accusers, they don’t pull that crap again after a decent pitting, and chances are everyone forgets it after a few days. That’s a laugh. Yes, they **do** pull that crap again. Because they’ve stirred shit, and that’s what they do. If they don’t do it again, then they’re not a troll, and publicly calling them one is a Very Bad Thing. [Previous page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/the-no-calling-anyone-a-troll-rule-is-dumb/325676.md?page=3) [Next page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/the-no-calling-anyone-a-troll-rule-is-dumb/325676.md?page=5)