# The "no charge" circle in basketball. **URL:** \ **Category:** The Game Room\ **Created:** [February 23, 2013, 8:25pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/the-no-charge-circle-in-basketball/651196 "2013-02-23T20:25:10Z")\ **Posts on this page:** 14\ **Page:** 1
**Author:** ![UltraVires](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/u/ecccb3/32.png) [@UltraVires](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/UltraVires)\ **Post date:** [February 23, 2013, 8:25pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/the-no-charge-circle-in-basketball/651196/1 "2013-02-23T20:25:10Z")
Why? Why shouldn’t a team be allowed to play defense under the rim? What’s the point of this circle? ---
**Author:** ![Marley23](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/m/45deac/32.png) [@Marley23](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Marley23)\ **Post date:** [February 23, 2013, 8:35pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/the-no-charge-circle-in-basketball/651196/2 "2013-02-23T20:35:47Z")
Because otherwise a defensive player could stand right in front of the rim and draw a charge every time a player on the offense drove to the basket. ---
**Author:** ![UltraVires](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/u/ecccb3/32.png) [@UltraVires](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/UltraVires)\ **Post date:** [February 23, 2013, 8:41pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/the-no-charge-circle-in-basketball/651196/3 "2013-02-23T20:41:52Z")
> [@Marley23](#): > > Because otherwise a defensive player could stand right in front of the rim and draw a charge every time a player on the offense drove to the basket. What’s wrong with that? If a defensive player is standing there, the offensive player should find another route. How else can a guy play defense? If he moves it’s a blocking foul, but if he stands there it’s an “inside the circle” violation. Is this just a way to make basketball a slam dunk show? ---
**Author:** ![Marley23](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/m/45deac/32.png) [@Marley23](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Marley23)\ **Post date:** [February 23, 2013, 8:52pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/the-no-charge-circle-in-basketball/651196/4 "2013-02-23T20:52:04Z")
> [@jtgain](#): > > If a defensive player is standing there, the offensive player should find another route. Just standing there isn’t playing defense, though. > [@](#): > > How else can a guy play defense? If he moves it’s a blocking foul, but if he stands there it’s an “inside the circle” violation. He’s allowed to stand there. There’s no such thing as an “inside the circle” violation. [The rule is that if the defender is standing in the circle and a player on the offense drives into him, the offensive player can’t be called for a charge.](http://www.livestrong.com/article/545721-what-is-the-purpose-of-the-semicircle-in-basketball/) Otherwise, like I said, guys on defense could just stand in front of the basket and try to draw charges on every play. That’s not good defense and it’s not interesting to watch. The defender can still play defense by playing actual defense, i.e. trying to keep his man away from the basket, trying to block his shot, steal the ball, and so on. > [@](#): > > Is this just a way to make basketball a slam dunk show? No. ---
**Author:** ![Darth\_Sensitive](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/d/58956e/32.png) [@Darth\_Sensitive](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Darth_Sensitive)\ **Post date:** [February 23, 2013, 9:17pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/the-no-charge-circle-in-basketball/651196/5 "2013-02-23T21:17:18Z")
At least in the NCAA (and I think in the NBA), the restricted area only applies to a help defender, not the primary defender. ---
**Author:** ![PetW](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/p/d2c977/32.png) [@PetW](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/PetW)\ **Post date:** [February 24, 2013, 2:44am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/the-no-charge-circle-in-basketball/651196/6 "2013-02-24T02:44:23Z")
> [@Darth\_Sensitive](#): > > At least in the NCAA (and I think in the NBA), the restricted area only applies to a help defender, not the primary defender. It doesn’t matter whether it’s the primary defender or a help defender in the NBA. ---
**Author:** ![markdash](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/m/ba8739/32.png) [@markdash](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/markdash)\ **Post date:** [February 24, 2013, 3:50am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/the-no-charge-circle-in-basketball/651196/7 "2013-02-24T03:50:36Z")
> [@PetW](#): > > It doesn’t matter whether it’s the primary defender or a help defender in the NBA. Not so: > [@](#): > > The restricted area (RA) is the area within the arched line on the court located below the rim. Its purpose is to stop secondary defenders from taking a position under the basket in an attempt to draw the offensive foul when a player is driving to the basket. If an offensive player drives past his primary defender on the way to the basket and a secondary defender comes over, he must establish a legal position outside the RA to draw an offensive foul. If the drive starts inside the Lower Defensive Box (LDB – this is the area from the bottom tip of the free throw circle to the endline between the two 3’ posted-up marks), the secondary defender is legally allowed to be positioned inside the RA. The restricted are also does not apply if the secondary defender jumps in attempting to block the shot, the offensive player leads with his leg or knee in an unnatural motion or uses his off arm to prevent the defender from blocking his shot. The RA does not extend from below the backboard to the baseline. Therefore, if a player drives the baseline and is not attempting to go directly to the rim, the RA does not apply. [Link.](http://www.nba.com/nba101/misunderstood_0708.html) ---
**Author:** ![Quercus](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/q/7ab992/32.png) [@Quercus](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Quercus)\ **Post date:** [March 1, 2013, 5:55pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/the-no-charge-circle-in-basketball/651196/8 "2013-03-01T17:55:50Z")
> [@jtgain](#): > > Is this just a way to make basketball a slam dunk show? > [@Marley23](#): > > No. Another opinion: Yes. Not that the NBA is going to put it in those terms of course. They’ll use words like ‘encouraging action’ and ‘exciting offense’ or “not good defense and it’s not interesting to watch”. But there’s no real other justification, so yeah, it boils down to making it easier to dunk. ---
**Author:** ![Marley23](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/m/45deac/32.png) [@Marley23](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Marley23)\ **Post date:** [March 1, 2013, 6:01pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/the-no-charge-circle-in-basketball/651196/9 "2013-03-01T18:01:25Z")
> [@Quercus](#): > > Another opinion: Yes. > > Not that the NBA is going to put it in those terms of course. You understand he’s asking about a rule change from 15 years ago, right? The circle affects drives, not dunking in particular. ---
**Author:** ![That\_Don\_Guy](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/that_don_guy/32/538_2.png) [@That\_Don\_Guy](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/That_Don_Guy)\ **Post date:** [March 1, 2013, 6:30pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/the-no-charge-circle-in-basketball/651196/10 "2013-03-01T18:30:43Z")
> [@jtgain](#): > > What’s wrong with that? If a defensive player is standing there, the offensive player should find another route. How else can a guy play defense? If he moves it’s a blocking foul, but if he stands there it’s an “inside the circle” violation. > > Is this just a way to make basketball a slam dunk show? Not so much “a slam dunk show” - otherwise, why bother with the 3-point line - but it stops teams from parking an extremely tall defender (e.g. someone like Manute Bol) underneath the basket and forcing the other team to either (a) go for the dunk and end up with a charging foul, or (b) pulling up short for a lay-up and getting the shot blocked. In that way, it does allow for more dunks. However, I think the intent of the no-charge circle is diminished by the change in the NBA’s illegal defense rule, since the defense can no longer keep a player underneath the basket constantly. The NCAA changed its rule at the start of last season to apply only to a “secondary defender”: > [@](#): > > A secondary defender cannot establish initial legal guarding position in the Restricted Area for the purposes of drawing a player control foul/charge on a player who is in control of the ball (i.e., dribbling or shooting) or who has released the ball for a pass or try for goal. When illegal contact occurs within this Restricted Area, such contact shall be called a blocking foul, unless the contact is flagrant. (Exception: When the offensive player leads with a foot or unnatural extended knee or wards off with the arm.) > This restriction shall not prohibit a defender, located within the restricted area, from attempting to block a shot. However, a “secondary defender” is any of: “a teammate who has helped a primary defender after that player has been beaten by an opponent because he/she failed to establish or maintain a guarding position. A defensive player is beaten when the offensive player’s head and shoulders get past the defender.”; “a teammate who double teams a low post player”; or, any player, when outnumbered in a fast break (e.g. a 2-on-1). ---
**Author:** ![Quercus](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/q/7ab992/32.png) [@Quercus](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Quercus)\ **Post date:** [March 1, 2013, 8:12pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/the-no-charge-circle-in-basketball/651196/11 "2013-03-01T20:12:34Z")
> [@Marley23](#): > > You understand he’s asking about a rule change from 15 years ago, right? The circle affects drives, not dunking in particular. The circle certainly aids dunks. It also aids drives that are lay-ups and not dunks, but I think that’s a pretty nitpicking distinction in this case. The point is that there is no justification for the rule other than to increase ‘exciting’ scoring at the rim, and even if some scores at the rim are not technically dunks, I don’t think reasonable people would object to describing a game with lots of scoring at the rim as a ‘slam dunk show’. So, I think it’s pretty fair – with only the tiniest bit of hyperbole – to say that the rule is there to make the game a slam dunk show. And yes, I’m aware the rule dates from the period when the league was doing anything it could to increase scoring (e.g. eliminating hand checks) in hopes of creating another Jordan. What’s your point? > [@That\_Don\_Guy](#): > > However, I think the intent of the no-charge circle is diminished by the change in the NBA’s illegal defense rule, since the defense can no longer keep a player underneath the basket constantly. I’m confused; the previous illegal defense rule – in place at the time the circle rule was added – was more restrictive about parking a big guy under the basket than the current ‘defensive 3 seconds’ rule (previously, the big man had to be guarding someone at all times. Now, he can park, as long as he stays just outside the paint until he starts defending a particular person). ---
**Author:** ![Marley23](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/m/45deac/32.png) [@Marley23](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Marley23)\ **Post date:** [March 1, 2013, 8:54pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/the-no-charge-circle-in-basketball/651196/12 "2013-03-01T20:54:12Z")
> [@Quercus](#): > > The circle certainly aids dunks. It also aids drives that are lay-ups and not dunks, but I think that’s a pretty nitpicking distinction in this case. No, it’s a significant distinction. The no-charge circle makes it easier to drive to the basket, which is pretty much the object in basketball: the most efficient and desirable shots are the ones closest to the rim - including but not limited to dunks - and driving to the rim is also a good way to bring about an open three-pointer. So the circle does make it easier to score, but it doesn’t do so in a way that just makes it easier to dunk. It’s misleading to say it’s just about dunks, particularly if it might be more helpful to players who are driving the lane. “Dunk fest” is a matter of opinion, I guess, but we may as well be straight about what the no-charge circle does. It does not just enable dunking, and while it probably helps scoring, I don’t have a problem with a rule that prevents people from playing defense by going to the rim and just standing there. ---
**Author:** ![Yaxche](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/y/8dc957/32.png) [@Yaxche](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Yaxche)\ **Post date:** [March 5, 2013, 3:54pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/the-no-charge-circle-in-basketball/651196/13 "2013-03-05T15:54:17Z")
> [@Marley23](#): > > “Dunk fest” is a matter of opinion, I guess. I guess it is, but I am of that opinion. Just another reason the pro game has lost interest for me. With everyone taking an extra step on their drive, anyway, it’s all about the quickest, most direct path to the basket - and that, too me, is uninteresting. There are other ways to get to the basket besides dunking. Gervin’s finger roll, Dantley’s post-fade, or something like this… [![](https://img.youtube.com/vi/fr0vwEEbTf4/hqdefault.jpg "NBA Moment - 1980 Finals Dr J Up and Under") ](https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=fr0vwEEbTf4) ---
**Author:** ![PetW](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/p/d2c977/32.png) [@PetW](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/PetW)\ **Post date:** [March 6, 2013, 2:35am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/the-no-charge-circle-in-basketball/651196/14 "2013-03-06T02:35:31Z")
> [@markdash](#): > > Not so: > > [Link.](http://www.nba.com/nba101/misunderstood_0708.html) Thanks for the correction, I had no idea! :smack: