# The Noble Prize and fucking China **URL:** \ **Category:** The BBQ Pit\ **Created:** [October 19, 2010, 2:38pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/the-noble-prize-and-fucking-china/557658 "2010-10-19T14:38:00Z")\ **Posts on this page:** 15\ **Page:** 3
**Author:** ![Dissonance](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/d/85f322/32.png) [@Dissonance](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Dissonance)\ **Post date:** [October 21, 2010, 4:29am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/the-noble-prize-and-fucking-china/557658/41 "2010-10-21T04:29:31Z")
> [@constanze](#): > > But that goes for the Rockefeller, Carnegie et al. legacy, too, right? All those guys who got rich by active fraud/ land-grabbing/ stealing, plus exploiting their workers with too-low-to-live on wages, driving competitors into ruin - in other words, the robber barons - then turned around and donated a fraction of their millions into museums, opera halls and universities/ scholarships, all not from a change of heart, but to whitewash their legacy? And it worked, too. They certainly did some whitewashing of their legacies, but it is generally known how they made their money in the first place. I’d argue Nobel isn’t as well known for having made his money selling weapons. A better parallel would be if Rockefeller et al. had willed their estates to the creation of labor unions, or prizes for advancing the cause of socialism or workers rights or the prevention of monopolistic practices so as to link their names to progressive policies out of fear of being remembered as robber barons, and succeeded in doing so to the point that they were barely remembered for how they had made their fortunes. While at the same time doing nothing to implement any of this in their companies during their lifetimes and indeed leaving them working in the same state they had been before passing away. ---
**Author:** ![kidchameleon](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/k/898d66/32.png) [@kidchameleon](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/kidchameleon)\ **Post date:** [October 21, 2010, 1:30pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/the-noble-prize-and-fucking-china/557658/42 "2010-10-21T13:30:38Z")
But the Nobel Prize for Chemistry dovetails nicely with the weapons industry, right? ---
**Author:** ![Marley23](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/m/45deac/32.png) [@Marley23](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Marley23)\ **Post date:** [October 21, 2010, 2:13pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/the-noble-prize-and-fucking-china/557658/43 "2010-10-21T14:13:57Z")
In the course of this thread I learned that the economics prize isn’t technically one of the Nobel prizes. It’s given equal standing today, but it was created in the late '60s instead of the turn of the 20th century and was endowed by the central bank of Sweden, not by Nobel. ---
**Author:** ![Rune](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/r/e68b1a/32.png) [@Rune](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Rune)\ **Post date:** [October 21, 2010, 2:35pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/the-noble-prize-and-fucking-china/557658/44 "2010-10-21T14:35:33Z")
> [@Marley23](#): > > In the course of this thread I learned that the economics prize isn’t technically one of the Nobel prizes. It’s given equal standing today, but it was created in the late '60s instead of the turn of the 20th century and was endowed by the central bank of Sweden, not by Nobel. That’s a pity. I had hoped you would have learned to appreciate fucking Asian girls. ---
**Author:** ![mhendo](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/mhendo/32/3159_2.png) [@mhendo](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/mhendo)\ **Post date:** [October 21, 2010, 7:38pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/the-noble-prize-and-fucking-china/557658/45 "2010-10-21T19:38:40Z")
[Story](http://www.newsinenglish.no/2010/10/15/more-nobel-fallout-but-murder-suspects-release-not-connected/) > [@](#): > > China’s release of a young Chinese man who confessed to the murder of a Norwegian student in Budapest late last summer is not related to official Chinese protests over the awarding of the Nobel Peace Prize to a Chinese dissident, according to Norway’s own foreign ministry. > > \ > > News of his release didn’t break until this week but Ragnhild Imerslund of the Norwegian Foreign Ministry told Norwegian Broadcasting (NRK) that Zhao actually was released as early as September 30, before the Peace Prize winner was announced. Imerslund said he was released after 30 days in a Chinese prison because Chinese law doesn’t allow continued custody without evidence of the crime involved. No further comment needed, i don’t think. ---
**Author:** ![kidchameleon](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/k/898d66/32.png) [@kidchameleon](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/kidchameleon)\ **Post date:** [October 21, 2010, 8:00pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/the-noble-prize-and-fucking-china/557658/46 "2010-10-21T20:00:07Z")
> [@mhendo](#): > > No further comment needed, i don’t think. You must be new here. 😉 ---
**Author:** ![alphaboi867](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/alphaboi867/32/3898_2.png) [@alphaboi867](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/alphaboi867)\ **Post date:** [October 22, 2010, 5:23am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/the-noble-prize-and-fucking-china/557658/47 "2010-10-22T05:23:41Z")
> [@marshmallow](#): > > Obama won the Peace Prize despite occupying two countries, expanding drone bombing and clandestine operations in other countries, and torture. He has the blood of thousands on his hands. But he inspired the new hope for the understanding of peace or words to that effect. ---
**Author:** ![Siam\_Sam](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/s/d78d45/32.png) [@Siam\_Sam](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Siam_Sam)\ **Post date:** [December 9, 2010, 3:09am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/the-noble-prize-and-fucking-china/557658/48 "2010-12-09T03:09:24Z")
In response to the Nobel Peace Prize being given to Liu Xiaobo, China is now preparing to award its first [Confucius Peace Prize](http://edition.cnn.com/2010/WORLD/asiapcf/12/08/china.confucius.prize/index.html?hpt=T1). Really. That’ll show thow those Scandinavian bastards a thing or two! ---
**Author:** ![The\_Tao\_s\_Revenge](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/t/73ab20/32.png) [@The\_Tao\_s\_Revenge](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/The_Tao_s_Revenge)\ **Post date:** [December 9, 2010, 3:24am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/the-noble-prize-and-fucking-china/557658/49 "2010-12-09T03:24:41Z")
> [@Siam\_Sam](#): > > In response to the Nobel Peace Prize being given to Liu Xiaobo, China is now preparing to award its first [Confucius Peace Prize](http://edition.cnn.com/2010/WORLD/asiapcf/12/08/china.confucius.prize/index.html?hpt=T1). Really. > > That’ll show thow those Scandinavian bastards a thing or two! Truely a peaceful country that respects it’s neighbors. Just ask Tibet. ---
**Author:** ![Sablicious](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/s/bbce88/32.png) [@Sablicious](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Sablicious)\ **Post date:** [December 10, 2010, 1:26pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/the-noble-prize-and-fucking-china/557658/50 "2010-12-10T13:26:29Z")
Well, the ceremony just took place… with no shortage of attention directed at Xiaobo’s poignant plight. Microwaving the popcorn in anticipation of the Red response to this ‘sacrilege’ by the ‘barbarians’… ---
**Author:** ![Norse](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/n/a9adbd/32.png) [@Norse](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Norse)\ **Post date:** [December 10, 2010, 2:11pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/the-noble-prize-and-fucking-china/557658/51 "2010-12-10T14:11:04Z")
> [@Marley23](#): > > I believe the peace prize is administered by the Norwegian government and the others are administered by the Swedish government. No, they aren’t: > [@](#): > > The Royal Swedish Academy of Sciences awards the Nobel Prize in Physics, the Nobel Prize in Chemistry, and the Nobel Memorial Prize in Economic Sciences. The Nobel Assembly at Karolinska Institutet awards the Nobel Prize in Physiology or Medicine. The Swedish Academy grants the Nobel Prize in Literature. The Nobel Peace Prize is not awarded by a Swedish organisation but by the Norwegian Nobel Committee. [Cite](http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Nobel_prize) Granted, the Norwegian government appoints the members of the Norwegian Nobel committee, but they don’t have any direct power over who is awarded the prize. And the ex-politician members of the committee are supposed to come from most of the political spectrum. That makes China’s current rage against the Norwegian government a bit meaningless. ---
**Author:** ![even\_sven](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/e/dfb087/32.png) [@even\_sven](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/even_sven)\ **Post date:** [December 10, 2010, 2:17pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/the-noble-prize-and-fucking-china/557658/52 "2010-12-10T14:17:44Z")
I always wonder when China will realize that i’s pleas to be seen as a mature, responsible, respected power are constantly undermined by its insistance at acting like a touchy adolescent. “I’m not going to your party, and I’m gonna tell all my friends if they like me they can’t go either” is an exceptionally childish response. Time after time they shoot their credibility in the foot as they make it just so damn fun to push their buttons. They just can’t realize the ability to brush off an insult gives you more credibility in the end than all the rebuttal in the world. ---
**Author:** ![even\_sven](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/e/dfb087/32.png) [@even\_sven](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/even_sven)\ **Post date:** [December 10, 2010, 2:35pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/the-noble-prize-and-fucking-china/557658/53 "2010-12-10T14:35:09Z")
> [@Norse](#): > > Granted, the Norwegian government appoints the members of the Norwegian Nobel committee, but they don’t have any direct power over who is awarded the prize. And the ex-politician members of the committee are supposed to come from most of the political spectrum. That makes China’s current rage against the Norwegian government a bit meaningless. China, being an authoritarian government that actually does have quite a bit of popular support, doesn’t “get” the idea that things can be separate from the government. They figure if the government isn’t involved in these sorts of things, well, maybe it out to be. The government has an overriding responsibility to make sure that all sectors are serving the national interests (which presumably they think it’s in Noway’s national interests not to make China feel butthurt.) It’s really a different way of looking at things, and it’s at the root of a lot of our tensions. In the west, we see the government as a separate and somewhat adversarial thing to our populace. So we feel like we can criticize a country’s government without criticizing the people of that country. In China, that idea just doesn’t make sense. They see the government as more of an extension of the will of the people, and really take criticism of their government quite personally. China is it’s government, and there is no way to criticize it without upsetting everyone. ---
**Author:** ![Autolycus](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/a/22d042/32.png) [@Autolycus](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Autolycus)\ **Post date:** [December 10, 2010, 3:26pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/the-noble-prize-and-fucking-china/557658/54 "2010-12-10T15:26:03Z")
> [@even\_sven](#): > > It’s really a different way of looking at things, and it’s at the root of a lot of our tensions. In the west, we see the government as a separate and somewhat adversarial thing to our populace. So we feel like we can criticize a country’s government without criticizing the people of that country. In China, that idea just doesn’t make sense. They see the government as more of an extension of the will of the people, and really take criticism of their government quite personally. China is it’s government, and there is no way to criticize it without upsetting everyone. Just thought I’d chime in here, I know nowhere near as much as **sven** or most other Dopers probably for that matter, but I dated a Chinese woman from Beijing for almost a year or so, and anytime we discussed things related to China, it was made perfectly clear that any criticism of China or its government was the same as criticizing her personally. In my (limited) experience, Chinese people do not separate their government from their patriotism. ---
**Author:** ![gonzomax](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/g/e8c25b/32.png) [@gonzomax](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/gonzomax)\ **Post date:** [December 10, 2010, 6:31pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/the-noble-prize-and-fucking-china/557658/55 "2010-12-10T18:31:26Z")
I don’t know why so many people are angry at our friends in China. We have moved a lot of business there taking them from a backwards country that was not a threat and made them an economic powerhouse. We always could take solace in the past that they were way behind us in technology. Now they may even be ahead of us. All thanks to our kind and generous corporations who could make money off them. The fastest computer in the world is made in China now, They are acceleration the tech gap. They are improving industrial technology because they use it every day. A generation ago. if you took a computer to China you would have been fined or jailed. Corporations took all the technology , patents, and intellectual properties and processes of a century of American knowhow there and were rewarded with gobs of money. We could always point out to those who feared Red China that they could not produce a lot of weaponry or sophisticated products. thank you corporations. [Previous page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/the-noble-prize-and-fucking-china/557658.md?page=2)