# The non-rhetorical pit of Aeschines or Time Adventures: episode I **URL:** \ **Category:** The BBQ Pit\ **Created:** [January 24, 2004, 7:20pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/the-non-rhetorical-pit-of-aeschines-or-time-adventures-episode-i/225872 "2004-01-24T19:20:55Z")\ **Posts on this page:** 20\ **Page:** 1
**Author:** ![GIGObuster](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/gigobuster/32/421_2.png) [@GIGObuster](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/GIGObuster)\ **Post date:** [January 24, 2004, 7:20pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/the-non-rhetorical-pit-of-aeschines-or-time-adventures-episode-i/225872/1 "2004-01-24T19:20:55Z")
_ **A cautionary tale for people who always believe what they see on TV:** _ > **[Remote viewing is real--and the truth is being seen by the media...](https://boards.straightdope.com/sdmb/showthread.php?t=235394)** > > Let’s make this simple. A Japanese TV show regularly does remote viewing–uh, not experiments, it just gets the people who can do it to do it. And they do. An American fellow, much used by the FBI it seems (they said that he was able to draw an... _A time machine sends our fearless board member to Athens Circa 400 BC. Accepting his fate of being trapped in the past, our hero realizes that as a follower of the original Aeschines, he at least knows about the history of the period and seeks Socrates at the Lyceum: Socrates was in class, teaching new students on debating when **Aeschines** enters abruptly:_ Socrates- Yes? **Aeschines** - I am here to become one of your followers Mr. Socrates…. Wait a moment! I mean: to become one of your teachers! My name is (increasing voice to a thunderous level) **Aeschines**!!! _The students looked around wondering if furies were in the grounds, (pay attention: I said [furies](http://www.in2greece.com/english/historymyth/mythology/names/furies.htm) not [furries](http://www.tigerden.com/~infopage/furry/) but with this **Aeschines** I wonder…)_ S- (Looking calm) - which Aeschines? The philosopher oratorical artist; The Demosthenes nemesis; The Arcadian, disciple of Isocrates; The citizen of Mitylene, scourge of the Orators; The Neapolitan, the favorite (Ahem) of Melanthius; The Milesian political writer; Or, the one that makes statues? A- Uh… the first one! No, uh, the second! Ugh, does it matter? Ooh! I get it! You are insulting me now! S- Thin-skinned eh? You may join us and we will decide if you are worthy of our Lyceum! Let us begin by learning this: “The only true wisdom is in knowing you know nothing.” A- Uh, excuse me Soc? I think in discussions one has to give the notion to our opponents that we know everything! One has to protect one’s position just like a tyrant keeps his country! S- Ah! However, you should know that “Beauty is a short-lived tyranny.” A- What do you think you are teaching here you dork? You are wrong! S- Aeschines, insulting teachers will get you nowhere here! You better explain your motives now or be banished from Athens forever! Take the podium and explain! _Socrates gives the podium; **Aeschines** conceals (badly) his gleefulness for the chance and takes the stand._ A- Ever heard of Plato, Aristotle? Dreaderus Robertus – (raises hand) Yes! I think they attend the evening classes… S- Hush farm boy! Let him continue… A - Morons… Mr. Socrates, I have invented Rhetoric! With my amazing gift of the language, I can put any enemy into submission! One does not need the truth, evidence, or facts to get in the way of making a point! This is the way of the future! S- But that method leaves the ignorant in the same condition, remember that there are no bad people only ignorant ones, one has to give information to our discussion foes so they will be less ignorant after all is said, and then they’ll be better persons after a debate! A- (Looking sheepish) Well… you see… I must beat them without giving them information! So many times in the past, they have made a monkey out of me because I don’t know much about the subject matter, and my cites then are lousy! S- “Employ your time in improving yourself by other men’s writings, so that you shall gain easily what others have labored hard for.” A- (Getting angry) That takes too long! I want to kick their rears now! “I can do it with one butt cheek tied behind my back”! _Everybody was rolling his eyes after trying to picture that feat! (“Good!” thought Aeschines)_ S– Please! Even Plato, one of “those moron students” said “Be kind, for everyone you meet is fighting a harder battle.” Timon– “The speeches of **Aeschines** do not convince any one” S– Now. be gone from my school, you ignorant! A- (Losing it) Ignorant! Hah! I am a scientist from the future! You are going to worship me in a few days, after you discover all my foreknowledge! _All the students and teachers now saw **Aeschines** as a silly madman and began to make hissing noises, taking that as a unanimous vote, Socrates and other teachers started to move towards Aeschines._ A- I’m not moving from here! S- If you don’t, you will feel the might of the “Force of Truth” boots! A- Hah! I know my movie and TV truths and you guys did not have boots! You sandal footed skeptos! What are you going to hit me with? The lyre? S- No, boot to the head! [SH-ZOOMP!] _And so, **Aeschines** learned the hard way that boots were used first in ancient Mesopotamia and then improved in ancient Greece! That, and also that Socrates still kept his military gear around!_ A– Owe! Leather boots can hurt! Billus and Teddus- Excellent!! A new slave for us dude!! S– No, that will be enough for this ignorant being. "Let him who would move the world first move himself.” _ **Aeschines** got up and left, admitting defeat only for this time. The chronicles are hazy on the fate of this Aeschines. So far, he is known to history as **Aeschines** ignoramilus the 9th one, it could be that he changed his ways, and the discovery of unknown documents will change his history._ -The End? With apologies to the Frantics and to the Ancient Greek philosophers, except one. … Well, that settles it: an entertainment OP has showed that **Aesquines** is so far: glad for his ignorance and that he is debating only for rhetorical points, case closed. Originally, this was going to end worse for **Aeschines** , but his last post on that thread showed that maybe he was seeing this coming; time will tell if this roast will need an update. [sup]Butt cheek tied behind his back?[/sup] :rolleyes: ---
**Author:** ![Doomtrain](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/d/0ea827/32.png) [@Doomtrain](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Doomtrain)\ **Post date:** [January 24, 2004, 8:02pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/the-non-rhetorical-pit-of-aeschines-or-time-adventures-episode-i/225872/2 "2004-01-24T20:02:33Z")
Ted: [to Socrates] All we are is dust in the wind, dude. –_Bill & Ted’s Excellent Adventure_ ---
**Author:** ![Gadfly](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/g/aeb1de/32.png) [@Gadfly](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Gadfly)\ **Post date:** [January 24, 2004, 8:28pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/the-non-rhetorical-pit-of-aeschines-or-time-adventures-episode-i/225872/3 "2004-01-24T20:28:36Z")
Brilliant pitting. 10/10. ---
**Author:** ![Fish](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/f/bc8723/32.png) [@Fish](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Fish)\ **Post date:** [January 24, 2004, 9:01pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/the-non-rhetorical-pit-of-aeschines-or-time-adventures-episode-i/225872/4 "2004-01-24T21:01:59Z")
> [@GIGObuster](#): > > [sup]Butt cheek tied behind his back?[/sup] :rolleyes: So _that’s_ why his arguments were coming out so muffled. ---
**Author:** ![Ale](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/a/f19dbf/32.png) [@Ale](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Ale)\ **Post date:** [January 24, 2004, 9:37pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/the-non-rhetorical-pit-of-aeschines-or-time-adventures-episode-i/225872/5 "2004-01-24T21:37:29Z")
Good thing I didn´t pit him two days ago, I could have never done such a great work as you, GIGObuster. This part is just precious: > [@GIGObuster](#): > > Billus and Teddus- Excellent!! A new slave for us dude!! ---
**Author:** ![GIGObuster](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/gigobuster/32/421_2.png) [@GIGObuster](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/GIGObuster)\ **Post date:** [January 24, 2004, 10:13pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/the-non-rhetorical-pit-of-aeschines-or-time-adventures-episode-i/225872/6 "2004-01-24T22:13:36Z")
> [@GMRyujin](#): > > Ted: [to Socrates] All we are is dust in the wind, dude. > –_Bill & Ted’s Excellent Adventure_ My favorite quote, just before that one, is: * * * Bill S. Preston: (reading history book) Socrates; “The only true wisdom consists of knowing you know nothing”. (Puzzled look on faces) Ted Logan: That’s us, dude! ## Bill: Oh… Yeah! 10/10 **Gadfly**?!? 🆒 Thank you all, the whole thing came to me after I confirmed my hunch that his name was from an ancient Greece philosopher. Indeed, the real Aeschines was renown for his rhetoric, but he had many critics, Timon among them. All the lines with quotes were originally from the philosophers themselves, even the “butt” quote is real, but from our 9th non-philosopher pitted here. ---
**Author:** ![John\_Zahn](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/j/e0b2c6/32.png) [@John\_Zahn](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/John_Zahn)\ **Post date:** [January 25, 2004, 12:17am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/the-non-rhetorical-pit-of-aeschines-or-time-adventures-episode-i/225872/7 "2004-01-25T00:17:39Z")
Nice going **GIGObuster,** not just here, but in that thread as well. Not sure how any of you could stomach much of **Aechines** for very long. Most shovels are not big enough to continually keep carting that much manure out. Heavy equipment is required. After seeing the long list that **IWLN** gathered up of his pearls of wisdom from just another thread, I’m surprised any thread he participates in can even go on as long as that one before it got closed down. Like you, I’m puzzled to know whether to take **Aeschines** seriously or not with that last post. If he did start seeing things a bit differently, I hope it wasn’t because of what he considered peer pressure. You also had brought up some stuff concerning the Hydrick/microphone/Randi bit in that other thread, that I previously hadn’t known before, or if I did, I had forgotten it. It’s been twenty years since I actually seen that very show on TV. That pencil trick is great though. I’ve done it hundreds of times myself, and have had a lot of fun with it. Take care, JZ ---
**Author:** ![GIGObuster](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/gigobuster/32/421_2.png) [@GIGObuster](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/GIGObuster)\ **Post date:** [January 25, 2004, 2:33am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/the-non-rhetorical-pit-of-aeschines-or-time-adventures-episode-i/225872/8 "2004-01-25T02:33:49Z")
Thanks for that **John Zahn** To be precise: I have to say that the correct “butt” quote of **Aeschines** is: “I can beat most of you’s with one ass-cheek tied behind my back…” Somehow, I cleaned up the quote a little bit for the pit! Uncanny! It fitted my original ending better! ---
**Author:** ![Algorithm](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/algorithm/32/12204_2.png) [@Algorithm](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Algorithm)\ **Post date:** [January 25, 2004, 9:28am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/the-non-rhetorical-pit-of-aeschines-or-time-adventures-episode-i/225872/9 "2004-01-25T09:28:52Z")
I particularly like **Aeschines** ’s tactic of telling his debate opponents to go find evidence supporting his own position, and claiming victory when someone actually looked and found none. ---
**Author:** ![Fish](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/f/bc8723/32.png) [@Fish](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Fish)\ **Post date:** [January 25, 2004, 7:47pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/the-non-rhetorical-pit-of-aeschines-or-time-adventures-episode-i/225872/10 "2004-01-25T19:47:01Z")
> [@Algorithm](#): > > I particularly like **Aeschines** ’s tactic of telling his debate opponents to go find evidence supporting his own position, and claiming victory when someone actually looked and found none. The part I liked best was where he insisted he wasn’t out to debate anything but continued to claim he was winning, that nobody could touch him, boo-yah, he’s so uber, etc. I wonder if he knows that all the things he accuses _other_ people of doing—personal attacks, failing to provide citations, selective filtering of evidence, ignoring evidence not within the proper worldview, petty insults—are all clearly behaviors of _his_ that he’s projecting onto his enemies. It’s kind of sad, really. ---
**Author:** ![Bosda\_Di\_Chi\_of\_Tricor](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/bosda_di_chi_of_tricor/32/16845_2.png) [@Bosda\_Di\_Chi\_of\_Tricor](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Bosda_Di_Chi_of_Tricor)\ **Post date:** [January 25, 2004, 8:11pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/the-non-rhetorical-pit-of-aeschines-or-time-adventures-episode-i/225872/11 "2004-01-25T20:11:24Z")
> [@Fish](#): > > The part I liked best was where he insisted he wasn’t out to debate anything but continued to claim he was winning, that nobody could touch him, boo-yah, he’s so uber, etc. > > I wonder if he knows that all the things he accuses _other_ people of doing—personal attacks, failing to provide citations, selective filtering of evidence, ignoring evidence not within the proper worldview, petty insults—are all clearly behaviors of _his_ that he’s projecting onto his enemies. It’s kind of sad, really. **He’s not sad, he’s a shithead!** He’s Jock Itch Fungus growing on the ballsack of John Wayne Gacy, _that’s_ what he is!!! :mad: :mad: ---
**Author:** ![GIGObuster](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/gigobuster/32/421_2.png) [@GIGObuster](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/GIGObuster)\ **Post date:** [January 25, 2004, 10:50pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/the-non-rhetorical-pit-of-aeschines-or-time-adventures-episode-i/225872/12 "2004-01-25T22:50:04Z")
> [@Bosda Di'Chi of Tricor](#): > > **He’s not sad, he’s a shithead!** He’s Jock Itch Fungus growing on the ballsack of John Wayne Gacy, _that’s_ what he is!!! :mad: :mad: Good **Bosda**! I was wondering when the charcoal grills would be lighted! However, that is not hot enough for the likes of this guy! Stand back! To properly roast the “Ass-cheek” referred in the OP, we need liquid oxygen! [http://www.plus613.com/image/447](http://www.plus613.com/image/447) ---
**Author:** ![Fish](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/f/bc8723/32.png) [@Fish](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Fish)\ **Post date:** [January 26, 2004, 3:59am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/the-non-rhetorical-pit-of-aeschines-or-time-adventures-episode-i/225872/13 "2004-01-26T03:59:21Z")
I don’t know that I would participate in a full-on barbecue of the misguided little ingrown twat hair. I think he would enjoy the attention far too much. Given his track record for misinterpreting blatantly obvious evidence, I don’t think he’d come away from his roast with anything remotely akin to the withering scorn we have for the fetid, pustulant organ with which he reasons; I think it would only further unnaturally swell his already-bloated True Believer Martyrdom complex and make him adopt a cringing, sickly pose in his next thread of unsupported fuckery, exhorted by his fellow Believers to take his licks gracefully and tie the other cheek. So if you’re looking for insults for someone whose reason is as sharp as that of Aeschines, I don’t know any. 🙂 ---
**Author:** ![John\_Mace](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/john_mace/32/185_2.png) [@John\_Mace](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/John_Mace)\ **Post date:** [January 26, 2004, 4:17am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/the-non-rhetorical-pit-of-aeschines-or-time-adventures-episode-i/225872/14 "2004-01-26T04:17:59Z")
Mr. Masters Degree in Science? Hey, I think he’s very pleased with his accomplishment-- getting two threads to go on for several pages about absolute garbage. ---
**Author:** ![LeeshaJoy](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/l/8e8cbc/32.png) [@LeeshaJoy](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/LeeshaJoy)\ **Post date:** [January 26, 2004, 5:16am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/the-non-rhetorical-pit-of-aeschines-or-time-adventures-episode-i/225872/15 "2004-01-26T05:16:13Z")
Does this guy remind anybody else of Jack Dean “circumcision is the root of all social ills and anyone who says otherwise has bought into the dogma of the Semitic establishment” Tyler? ---
**Author:** ![Aeschines](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/aeschines/32/16251_2.png) [@Aeschines](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Aeschines)\ **Post date:** [January 27, 2004, 4:11am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/the-non-rhetorical-pit-of-aeschines-or-time-adventures-episode-i/225872/16 "2004-01-27T04:11:16Z")
Gentlemen, I am very saddened by the content of this thread. Never in my life have been so barbarously–and might I add, _personally_–attacked. This onslaught against me is all the more disturbing for the fact that I had, before the start of this thread, already acceded to the position taken by those posting here, namely, Skepticism. It was meet of Mr. Czarcasm to shut down the thread in question, as I only intended to post those last words and be done with it; in any event, I was at that point a changed man. I assume you all had the chance to recognize this before girding your loins for this battle, or, should I say, halter party. Although I held opinions contrary to yours, and, as it turns own, in no wise consistent with those I hold _at present_, never once did I descend to the level of awful cruelty and vulgarity explified in this thread, and manifested in not a few others. Unsupported beliefs should be countered with arguments, not contumely. Hence, I must demand satisfaction from all of you, even though you are now brothers in Skepticism, for the many insults I have suffered here. Just a few decades ago my seconds would have contacted you severally. Today, however, a simple apology will suffice, which I expect within the week. I remain, Gentleman, ever your humble servant, Aeschines ---
**Author:** ![GIGObuster](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/gigobuster/32/421_2.png) [@GIGObuster](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/GIGObuster)\ **Post date:** [January 27, 2004, 5:05am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/the-non-rhetorical-pit-of-aeschines-or-time-adventures-episode-i/225872/17 "2004-01-27T05:05:19Z")
Well, the rhetoric in your reply does not hide rudeness, but your input makes this the perfect pit thread. 🙂 There are several problems in your request: 1. Don’t you get tired of showing ignorance? This is the pit, this is allowed here. 2. The record of your behavior, reflected in the OP, remains in the GD thread and it cannot be changed. Only your future posts will show us if you changed. 3. As I mentioned at the end of the OP, it was going to be worse for you, your last post in GD made me change the ending. What will happen next, depends on you. 4. Mr. **Czarcasm** in the last post looked like he did not believe you anyhow, so it is you who is the one on thin ice, buddy. 5. And once again, as I mentioned at the end of the OP, what you offer in future discussions (good evidence and not just rhetoric) is what will determine your status here. ---
**Author:** ![Ale](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/a/f19dbf/32.png) [@Ale](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Ale)\ **Post date:** [January 27, 2004, 5:22am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/the-non-rhetorical-pit-of-aeschines-or-time-adventures-episode-i/225872/18 "2004-01-27T05:22:49Z")
> [@Fish](#): > > think it would only further unnaturally swell his already-bloated True Believer Martyrdom complex and make him adopt a cringing, sickly pose in his next thread… Well, he couldn´t wait, it seems… All hail Aeschines, Master of the Offenderati. ---
**Author:** ![Aeschines](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/aeschines/32/16251_2.png) [@Aeschines](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Aeschines)\ **Post date:** [January 27, 2004, 5:46am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/the-non-rhetorical-pit-of-aeschines-or-time-adventures-episode-i/225872/19 "2004-01-27T05:46:46Z")
> [@GIGObuster](#): > > 1. Don’t you get tired of showing ignorance? This is the pit, this is allowed here. Now that I am reformed, I am no longer ignorant. But fools and wise men alike despise rudeness, and neither deserves same without provocation. > [@](#): > > 1. The record of your behavior, reflected in the OP, remains in the GD thread and it cannot be changed. Only your future posts will show us if you changed. I have already apologized for those minor instances of misbehavior, in which I was so provoked by the rudeness of the forum, that I could not help but lash out in frustration at the harpies that besieged me. Other than this, I feel that no apology on my part is warranted. > [@](#): > > 1. As I mentioned at the end of the OP, it was going to be worse for you, your last post in GD made me change the ending. What will happen next, depends on you. And also on whether the participants here are truly interested in changing the mind of a fellow thinker; it could be they prefer ostracizaiton and mockery even of those who change so as to agree with them. Sadly, this thread is evidence of the latter. > [@](#): > > 1. Mr. **Czarcasm** in the last post looked like he did not believe you anyhow, so it is you who is the one on thin ice, buddy. In what way, sir? As I always obey the rules of SDMB, I should have nothing to fear from the moderators, as the advice of my betters is for my own improvement; this I recognize. > [@](#): > > 1. And once again, as I mentioned at the end of the OP, what you offer in future discussions (good evidence and not just rhetoric) is what will determine your status here. I already feel ready to provide evidence in the service of Skepticism, in whatever thread that requires it. ---
**Author:** ![Aeschines](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/aeschines/32/16251_2.png) [@Aeschines](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Aeschines)\ **Post date:** [January 27, 2004, 5:48am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/the-non-rhetorical-pit-of-aeschines-or-time-adventures-episode-i/225872/20 "2004-01-27T05:48:18Z")
> [@Ale](#): > > Well, he couldn´t wait, it seems… > All hail Aeschines, Master of the Offenderati. This mocking of me is itself most offensive. I suppose now you’ll further mock me for being offended by the mockery? [Next page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/the-non-rhetorical-pit-of-aeschines-or-time-adventures-episode-i/225872.md?page=2)