# The non-rhetorical pit of Aeschines or Time Adventures: episode I **URL:** \ **Category:** The BBQ Pit\ **Created:** [January 24, 2004, 7:20pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/the-non-rhetorical-pit-of-aeschines-or-time-adventures-episode-i/225872 "2004-01-24T19:20:55Z")\ **Posts on this page:** 20\ **Page:** 2
**Author:** ![Miller](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/miller/32/481_2.png) [@Miller](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Miller)\ **Post date:** [January 27, 2004, 5:52am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/the-non-rhetorical-pit-of-aeschines-or-time-adventures-episode-i/225872/21 "2004-01-27T05:52:21Z")
> [@Aeschines](#): > > I am very saddened by the content of this thread. Never in my life have been so barbarously–and might I add, personally–attacked. I find this astonishing. ---
**Author:** ![Ale](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/a/f19dbf/32.png) [@Ale](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Ale)\ **Post date:** [January 27, 2004, 5:56am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/the-non-rhetorical-pit-of-aeschines-or-time-adventures-episode-i/225872/22 "2004-01-27T05:56:38Z")
> [@Aeschines](#): > > This mocking of me is itself most offensive. I suppose now you’ll further mock me for being offended by the mockery? Yep. On a more formal pitting stance; I don´t know if you noticed it or not; but your attitude in the GD threads has been a mockering of the whole community. The reasons why you engage in such obnoxious behaviour is either that you enjoy to cause indignation or you just are a natural jerk. Neither of which is respected around here. ---
**Author:** ![Fish](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/f/bc8723/32.png) [@Fish](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Fish)\ **Post date:** [January 27, 2004, 6:09am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/the-non-rhetorical-pit-of-aeschines-or-time-adventures-episode-i/225872/23 "2004-01-27T06:09:35Z")
Give it up, **Aeschines.** With your own brand of mockery and infantile behavior, you have made your bed; now you must lie in it. You stepped out of the gate mocking skeptics left and right. I seem to remember that you pulled the string of Chucky the Skeptic: do you recall? You began your relentless _ad hominem_ attacks before you even admitted to being in a debate—which you never actually did admit—and yet any time someone doubted you, you bloated with thorns like a puffer fish in Full Star-Wars Missile Defense Mode and shouted, “help, help, I’m insulted, poor me, personal attack, oh why won’t the mods help me?!” You do not see how you are required to apologize? Even in your contrition you work in a backhanded slam: how you have already apologized, poor innocent martyr Aeschines, for the tempestuous and unfortunate remarks you made as a result of the **harpies** attacking you. “Harpies” is your word. Even when you apologize you are on the attack. This tells me more about your character than your reason or your beliefs ever will. It would be like saying, “I’m sincerely sorry that you’re all hamster-fucking morons.” You simply cannot let things lie. I’ve seen thinner skin floating on the surface of a gallon of milk. I do not care if you have adopted the Light Of Reason and now carry the staff of Solomon and the crown of Isis and a jar with the brain of Einstein. Your behavior is still vindictive. Only time will tell if your cringing, whining pose of Helpless Martyrdom is just that—a pose—or if you truly have it in you to turn over a new leaf and turn the other cheek (or at least tie them both back neatly). I suspect that change will not be something we shall see in the BBQ Pit. You will not acquit yourself here. If you wish to show us that your behavior has changed, **then show us.** Don’t tell us. We’re your Chucky the Skeptic dolls, remember, wash rinse repeat? We don’t believe without proof. Just because someone says it’s so, don’t mean it’s so. ---
**Author:** ![IWLN](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/i/b5ac83/32.png) [@IWLN](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/IWLN)\ **Post date:** [January 27, 2004, 6:26am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/the-non-rhetorical-pit-of-aeschines-or-time-adventures-episode-i/225872/24 "2004-01-27T06:26:25Z")
> [@Aeschines](#): > > I have already apologized for those minor instances of misbehavior, in which I was so provoked by the rudeness of the forum, that I could not help but lash out in frustration at the harpies that besieged me. It’s become kind of tedious, but I _could_ provide a more complete list of your insults, refresh your memory. I only gave you about half of them last time. I am a vigilant _harpie_ > [@](#): > > Other than this, I feel that no apology on my part is warranted.And also on whether the participants here are truly interested in changing the mind of a fellow thinker; it could be they prefer ostracizaiton and mockery even of those who change so as to agree with them. Sadly, this thread is evidence of the latter. Do you _ever_ talk normally? Does that bound ass cheek give you problems with communication? > [@](#): > > In what way, sir? As I always obey the rules of SDMB, I should have nothing to fear from the moderators, as the advice of my betters is for my own improvement; this I recognize.I already feel ready to provide evidence in the service of Skepticism, in whatever thread that requires it. Uh, threads don’t normally get locked. They die of neglect. Having your thread closed was not a compliment to you, it was a slap on the hand. Pay attention!! ---
**Author:** ![Czarcasm](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/czarcasm/32/4050_2.png) [@Czarcasm](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Czarcasm)\ **Post date:** [January 27, 2004, 6:29am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/the-non-rhetorical-pit-of-aeschines-or-time-adventures-episode-i/225872/25 "2004-01-27T06:29:22Z")
On the plus side, _Mr._ Czarcasm has a nice ring to it. 🆒 ---
**Author:** ![Miller](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/miller/32/481_2.png) [@Miller](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Miller)\ **Post date:** [January 27, 2004, 6:34am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/the-non-rhetorical-pit-of-aeschines-or-time-adventures-episode-i/225872/26 "2004-01-27T06:34:15Z")
[Sidney Poitier]“They call me MISTER Czarcasm!”[/Sidney Poitier] ---
**Author:** ![GIGObuster](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/gigobuster/32/421_2.png) [@GIGObuster](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/GIGObuster)\ **Post date:** [January 27, 2004, 6:34am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/the-non-rhetorical-pit-of-aeschines-or-time-adventures-episode-i/225872/27 "2004-01-27T06:34:58Z")
> [@Aeschines](#): > > In what way, sir? As I always obey the rules of SDMB, I should have nothing to fear from the moderators, as the advice of my betters is for my own improvement; this I recognize.I already feel ready to provide evidence in the service of Skepticism, in whatever thread that requires it. I have to remind you here that what Mr. **Czarcasm** \* said was: > [@Czarcasm](#): > > Yeah, right. > Next time, bring facts. > Since you do not wish to participate in an actual debate on the issue you brought up in the first place, I think I’ll just lock this thread. I interpret that as the moderator having little patience left, and like me, he noticed one important reason why I pointed at you in the pit: a lack of evidence to support your points. **Fish** : I did forget those insults! I did notice the **harpies** coment, and I did remember the **Skeptos** broadside of him. Yes, he made his own bed. As Demosthenes would say to a defeated Aeschines: “What a Sisyphus!!” [sup]\*noticed him on preview![/sup] 😃 ---
**Author:** ![Ferrous](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/f/8e7dd6/32.png) [@Ferrous](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Ferrous)\ **Post date:** [January 27, 2004, 7:04am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/the-non-rhetorical-pit-of-aeschines-or-time-adventures-episode-i/225872/28 "2004-01-27T07:04:50Z")
I just went and read the linked GD thread, just for shits and giggles. **Aeschines** is indeed quite a piece of work, but I will say one nice thing about him… Someone in the thread (and I’m deliberately not naming names because I don’t want to start a fight with them) posed some questions to him, ending: “…show us some data. Just the tiniest peek, M’kay?” To which **A** responded, “M-not-k, as I am not trying to prove…(blah blah blah)” That made me chuckle. Yes, he’s full of shit, but I absolutely _despise_ that smug, condescending non-word, “mkay”. Please don’t use it, people. It’s not clever. It just makes you sound like an ass. IMO, anyway. ---
**Author:** ![Kamandi](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/k/5daacb/32.png) [@Kamandi](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Kamandi)\ **Post date:** [January 27, 2004, 7:05am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/the-non-rhetorical-pit-of-aeschines-or-time-adventures-episode-i/225872/29 "2004-01-27T07:05:45Z")
> [@Aeschines](#): > > Hence, I must demand satisfaction from all of you, even though you are now brothers in Skepticism, for the many insults I have suffered here. Just a few decades ago my seconds would have contacted you severally. Today, however, a simple apology will suffice, which I expect within the week. > > I remain, > Gentleman, > ever your humble servant, > Aeschines Clearly, our new little playmate is enjoying pissing in our sandbox. ---
**Author:** ![Fish](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/f/bc8723/32.png) [@Fish](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Fish)\ **Post date:** [January 27, 2004, 7:13am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/the-non-rhetorical-pit-of-aeschines-or-time-adventures-episode-i/225872/30 "2004-01-27T07:13:38Z")
And now he’s asking us to apologize for his pissing in our sandbox. ---
**Author:** ![Aeschines](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/aeschines/32/16251_2.png) [@Aeschines](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Aeschines)\ **Post date:** [January 27, 2004, 7:20am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/the-non-rhetorical-pit-of-aeschines-or-time-adventures-episode-i/225872/31 "2004-01-27T07:20:35Z")
> [@Fish](#): > > Give it up, **Aeschines.** I have given up all but my dignity–_that_ you cannot have. > [@](#): > > With your own brand of mockery and infantile behavior, you have made your bed; now you must lie in it. Though I am now one of your fellows, a Skeptic, yet you will ostracize me anyhow? If reason be your ruler, and not emotion, you should welcome me with open arms. > [@](#): > > You stepped out of the gate mocking skeptics left and right… and yet any time someone doubted you, you bloated with thorns like a puffer fish in Full Star-Wars Missile Defense Mode and shouted, “help, help, I’m insulted, poor me, personal attack, oh why won’t the mods help me?!” I am justly chastised in this regard. > [@](#): > > You do not see how you are required to apologize? Even in your contrition you work in a backhanded slam: how you have already apologized, poor innocent martyr Aeschines, for the tempestuous and unfortunate remarks you made as a result of the **harpies** attacking you. “Harpies” is your word. Nor was the word chosen not without purpose. As you have seen, I have offered an apology to the forum; now I expect one myself for the mockery and rudeness I suffered without provocation. > [@](#): > > Even when you apologize you are on the attack. This tells me more about your character than your reason or your beliefs ever will. If it shows an unbending desire for justice, then yes: it does reveal my character indeed. For it is not an attack; it is merely my opinion regarding the behavior of my oppoents, which was poor in the extreme. And if you expect a kowtowing from anyone who wishes to apologize to you and make amends, then it is your character, sir, that will be questioned. > [@](#): > > It would be like saying, “I’m sincerely sorry that you’re all hamster-fucking morons.” You simply cannot let things lie. I’ve seen thinner skin floating on the surface of a gallon of milk. What I am “sorry” about is this: my opponents’ powers of Reason and dedication to Skepticism are very admirable, but the contumely and disrespect you regularly heap on your opponents is not. Which is preferable? To convince someone of the Truth and welcome him to it, or to mock someone for not knowing the Truth while hoping he never finds it? I think, sir, you know the answer. > [@](#): > > I do not care if you have adopted the Light Of Reason and now carry the staff of Solomon and the crown of Isis and a jar with the brain of Einstein. Sir, I kindly request that you desist from this mocking tone; it does not become a man of Reason. > [@](#): > > Your behavior is still vindictive. Only time will tell if your cringing, whining pose of Helpless Martyrdom is just that—a pose—or if you truly have it in you to turn over a new leaf and turn the other cheek (or at least tie them both back neatly). I suspect that change will not be something we shall see in the BBQ Pit. You will not acquit yourself here. Time has already told a part of the story, for which I request due recognition. It would also behoove you to examine your own words and actions, and see if they truly match your professed Philosophy. > [@](#): > > If you wish to show us that your behavior has changed, **then show us.** Don’t tell us. We’re your Chucky the Skeptic dolls, remember, wash rinse repeat? We don’t believe without proof. Just because someone says it’s so, don’t mean it’s so. Your request for proof is respected. The apology is one step toward that proof, I should think. Other evidence shall be forthcoming, presently. ---
**Author:** ![Miller](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/miller/32/481_2.png) [@Miller](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Miller)\ **Post date:** [January 27, 2004, 7:43am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/the-non-rhetorical-pit-of-aeschines-or-time-adventures-episode-i/225872/32 "2004-01-27T07:43:33Z")
> [@Aeschines](#): > > Though I am now one of your fellows, a Skeptic, yet you will ostracize me anyhow? If reason be your ruler, and not emotion, you should welcome me with open arms. A dick who agrees with me is still a dick. ---
**Author:** ![IWLN](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/i/b5ac83/32.png) [@IWLN](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/IWLN)\ **Post date:** [January 27, 2004, 7:56am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/the-non-rhetorical-pit-of-aeschines-or-time-adventures-episode-i/225872/33 "2004-01-27T07:56:36Z")
> [@Aeschines](#): > > Sir, I kindly request that you desist from this mocking tone; it does not become a man of Reason.Time has already told a part of the story, for which I request due recognition. It would also behoove you to examine your own words and actions, and see if they truly match your professed Philosophy. I think **Fish** was a lot kinder than you deserve. I would have used the words “Attention Whore” in the sentence. ---
**Author:** ![GIGObuster](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/gigobuster/32/421_2.png) [@GIGObuster](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/GIGObuster)\ **Post date:** [January 27, 2004, 8:05am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/the-non-rhetorical-pit-of-aeschines-or-time-adventures-episode-i/225872/34 "2004-01-27T08:05:59Z")
> [@Aeschines](#): > > Sir, I kindly request that you desist from this mocking tone; it does not become a man of Reason. > > … > > Time has already told a part of the story, for which I request due recognition. It would also behoove you to examine your own words and actions, and see if they truly match your professed Philosophy. I still think you are not getting it: in the pit it is allowed, and once again, it is the result of your demonstrated, very insulting, behavior in GD. Speaking only for myself, I have resorted to very mild mockery and devastating parody of your actions; no apology will come from me since very sincere efforts to give information were eviscerated by you in GD before. Rhetoric is not everything, not even in a forced act of contrition here; it is in GD where the truth of your words will appear, since it will not be under duress. Over here, I am content to see an effort to get better from your part, but this seem to be the case for just half a page, there were 4 pages of your pig-head-ness in the referred GD thread alone, (and even in your apology demand here) it will take about the same number of reasonable posts elsewhere to trust you. In other words: we need extraordinary evidence from you that there is a change. Ah. Evidence! The point of this roast!.. … And also to let others be merciless in the pit! That what is for. 😛 ---
**Author:** ![Aeschines](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/aeschines/32/16251_2.png) [@Aeschines](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Aeschines)\ **Post date:** [January 27, 2004, 8:23am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/the-non-rhetorical-pit-of-aeschines-or-time-adventures-episode-i/225872/35 "2004-01-27T08:23:16Z")
> [@GIGObuster](#): > > Over here, I am content to see an effort to get better from your part, but this seem to be the case for just half a page, there were 4 pages of your pig-head-ness in the referred GD thread alone, (and even in your apology demand here) it will take about the same number of reasonable posts elsewhere to trust you. In other words: we need extraordinary evidence from you that there is a change. I am satisfied with this statement. Let’s work together in the future to defend Reason and advance Skepticism. ---
**Author:** ![Aeschines](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/aeschines/32/16251_2.png) [@Aeschines](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Aeschines)\ **Post date:** [January 27, 2004, 8:24am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/the-non-rhetorical-pit-of-aeschines-or-time-adventures-episode-i/225872/36 "2004-01-27T08:24:18Z")
> [@IWLN](#): > > I think **Fish** was a lot kinder than you deserve. I would have used the words “Attention Whore” in the sentence. For you, madam, _whore_ alone will suffice. ---
**Author:** ![GIGObuster](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/gigobuster/32/421_2.png) [@GIGObuster](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/GIGObuster)\ **Post date:** [January 27, 2004, 8:43am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/the-non-rhetorical-pit-of-aeschines-or-time-adventures-episode-i/225872/37 "2004-01-27T08:43:58Z")
> [@Aeschines](#): > > I am satisfied with this statement. That was not an apology “Sisyphus”! 😛 BTW: among ancient Greeks this was insulting, but it had nothing to do with sissies, it was a proverbial name for a cheat. > [@Aeschines](#): > > Let’s work together in the future to defend Reason and advance Skepticism. Better nip this on the bud: A skeptic assumes even the uncertainty of his beliefs in order to oppose dogmatism (e.g. TV is truth) Skepticism is not an automatic position or faith, evidence modifies it always. ---
**Author:** ![Aeschines](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/aeschines/32/16251_2.png) [@Aeschines](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Aeschines)\ **Post date:** [January 27, 2004, 8:45am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/the-non-rhetorical-pit-of-aeschines-or-time-adventures-episode-i/225872/38 "2004-01-27T08:45:58Z")
> [@GIGObuster](#): > > Better nip this on the bud: A skeptic assumes even the uncertainty of his beliefs in order to oppose dogmatism (e.g. TV is truth) Skepticism is not an automatic position or faith, evidence modifies it always. I accept this statement, too. Reason must constantly critique itself, lest it become dogma, of which we Skeptics do not approve. ---
**Author:** ![IWLN](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/i/b5ac83/32.png) [@IWLN](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/IWLN)\ **Post date:** [January 27, 2004, 8:52am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/the-non-rhetorical-pit-of-aeschines-or-time-adventures-episode-i/225872/39 "2004-01-27T08:52:12Z")
> [@Aeschines](#): > > For you, madam, _whore_ alone will suffice. Very good. Substitute _“bitch”_ for _madam_ and _“do”_ for _suffice_ and we’ll have you sounding normal in no time.🙂 ---
**Author:** ![GIGObuster](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/gigobuster/32/421_2.png) [@GIGObuster](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/GIGObuster)\ **Post date:** [January 27, 2004, 9:01am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/the-non-rhetorical-pit-of-aeschines-or-time-adventures-episode-i/225872/40 "2004-01-27T09:01:23Z")
Of course **Aeschines** , I am uncertain of your sincerity here ( what do you expect? 🙂 ), you are assuming pseudo-apologies from my part when there are none. Lets see you act elsewhere, otherwise: more cannon fodder here! [Previous page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/the-non-rhetorical-pit-of-aeschines-or-time-adventures-episode-i/225872.md?page=1) [Next page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/the-non-rhetorical-pit-of-aeschines-or-time-adventures-episode-i/225872.md?page=3)