I agree. I don’t think this insurance offering is going to change the number of people shot in lawful self defense much at all.
It probably does make a difference when you are heading out of the house, deciding whether or not to take your gun with you.
Obviously, having a gun on you is going to make it much more likely for you to shoot someone.
Do you really think that if you’re actually carrying a gun for a real self defense reason, as in you’re literally concerned that there will be a threat to your life, you will let the threat of court costs slow you down?
Honestly, if I got the impression that somebody was allowing this insurance to make them more comfortable with the idea of shooting threats, I would immediately conclude that the threats were actually “threats” and that the bastard was looking for trouble.
For the marginal gun carrier, yes. There are those who carry every day, and there are those who never carry. In between, there are those who carry sometimes, and yes, I do think that they would carry more often in more situations if they had more of a shield from liability.
That’s actually how I feel about most people that want to carry in public anyway, insurance or no.
Well, if we’re talking about people who are not shooting for self-defense reasons, then this insurance could totally increase the number of them that go around casually shooting people, if only due to them grossly misunderstanding what they’re covered for. (“Murder insurance? Sweet! I’ma go get my murder on!”)
This type of insurance is not new. The first offering appears to be USCCA, in business since 2003 (cite). Armed Citizens Legal Defense Network formed in 2008 (cite), and Texas Law Shield formed in 2009 (cite). I could not find exactly when CCW Safe, Second Call Defense, or Self Defense Association were formed. The point is, this type of insurance has been available for over a decade, without blood flowing in the streets.
Incidences where the insurance is actually used are rare, but the biggest case would probably be the first degree murder trial of Stephen Maddox: (cite).
It’s not clear from this particular article, but the 911 call was made between the 2nd and 3rd attacks. The reason he stayed at the location of the 2nd attack was because that was what 911 had told him to do - to stay there and wait for police.
The price for being an innocent victim that was attacked, defended himself, fled, was attacked again, called 911, followed law enforcement’s directions, was attacked a 3rd time, and defended himself yet again, was a 2 year legal battle costing over $300,000. His CCW insurance provider, (CCW Safe) provided financial support, as well as expert witnesses and access to experienced self defense lawyers for Maddox’s defense team to consult with. I would argue that at least in this case, CCW insurance provided a public good.
FYI, I’m not affiliated with any of these companies in any way - not even as a customer.
Do you actually think that those of us who conceal carry have itchy trigger fingers and we just can’t wait until we shoot someone?
I’m armed as I type this and I can tell you without a doubt that I pray that I never have to use my firearm against another person. Don’t confuse,that for I won’t however. My firearm is a tool of last resort. I know that it may one day be what stands between myself and my family and great harm. I know no matter how well intentioned, the police can’t protect my family.
With that said if I ever do have to use my firearm for self defense my intent is to stop the threat, not kill. If the person intending to harm me experies, he expires.
Bottom line is I and the majority of firearm owners take offense to any thought that we carry because we can’t wait to get into a fight. If anything I’m more polite and more apt to walk away from a confrontation because I’m carrying. As stated, if I draw me weapon it’s because there are no other options.
The reason I carry a gun is because a cop is too heavy.
If you carry, you need to train, and practice, clean it and think a lot about it, especially how loaded it is, and who can find it. It’s a part of your life and your Karma now.
So I do not believe that gun carriers don’t think in terms of the immediate potential for violence. Einstein! You’re carrying a gun! If you are not envisioning a firefight then you probably shouldn’t even be carrying. It sounds like bad outcomes that way too.
Can you do a cost benefit analysis of how your life feels vs someone who wouldn’t carry a gun, when neither of you is likely to encounter the violence in your mind, in actual life?
If I were in a bar brawl and the ape pulled a gun, I would NOT be pleased to learn he had this insurance, whatever it’s called.
Are you saying it is NOT like
?
A criminal defendant with $250,000 worth of lawyers is much less likely to be convicted than one without.
No, but you have thought about it, trained for it, and prepared for it. That may not be an “itchy trigger finger”, but that is certainly not someone who hasn’t considered the act of killing another person.
There are other protections for your family. A lock on your door, an alarm system, a dog. A gun is not going to do you any good if you are surprised in the middle of the night, a gun is going to do you no good if you are mugged on the street, and caught unawares, a gun is going to do you no good if someone barges into the room where you are right now seeking to do you harm.
A first aid kit is far more likely to save the life of your or yours than a gun is. Do you carry a first aid kit?
Out of curiosity, after they are down, and no longer a threat, would you offer first aid if possible?
How much offense? Enough that you want to get into a fight about it?
No other options than you can think of in the moment. No other options because you may have left yourself with fewer options because you knew you had the option of a gun. There are situations that I avoid because I do not think that they would be the safest situations for me to be in. With a gun, they would be much safer for me, but fatal to others.
I carry a first aid kit because an EMT is too heavy.
Yes, I have trained extensively on how to effectively use my weapon and sure I’ve run through scenarios in my head. But that’s a far cry from “having an itchy trigger finger”, just waiting for the chance to gun someone down.
You know what? I have three fire extinguisherstation in my home, yet I’ve never had and likely never will have a fire in my home. I carry flood insurance on my home though I’ve never experienced a flood and likely never will. I carry a gun although I’ve never had someone threaten my life. BUT, the chance of a fire, flood or violence maybe be very small it’s not zero.
The only thing that might save my home in a fire is an extinguisher, the only thing that will rebuild my house after a flood is insurance and the only tool that has a chance of saving my life against someone intent on harming me is a firearm.
Chances are I’ll go my entire life without needing it. Yet, if I do need it nothing else will do. I’ll admit it very well might not save me, but it certs gives me a fighting chance. I have nothing against a person who chooses not to arm themselves. They’re choice, but I’d rather not really on the hope someone else would save me if the time ever comes. Sadly, people are mugged, raped and assaulted everyday. The risk, as small as it maybe, is there. I choose to be prepared, that’s all the cost benefit I need.
I have a fence, I have a dog and I have locks. All are layered protection. If someone gets past the fence, dog and locked door I’ll assume he’s there to cause me harm.
As for your assertion that firearms can never save anyone. Sorry, your wrong. If I wasn’t on my phone I’d be more than happy to link you to hundreds of accounts of firearms saving people from harm.
Broken in to my door right this second, into this very room I’m sitting in and I assure you that my firearm will come into play.
Once again, I’ve run scenarios through my head and as much as I hope I never have to take a life I am prepared to and won’t hesitate if it is to protect myself or my family from harm. But I don’t have an itchy trigger finger. I’m not waiting for the day I can draw my weaponame and use it. Only a psychopath would think like that. If my weapon leaves my holster it’s only because I am facing a deadly threat and there are no other options available to me. And if that day comes, I pray that I’ll shoot straight and be faster than the one trying to harm me. If not, I went down fighting, not as a helpless victim.
Oh, I also carry a first aid kit everyday.
Oh, one other thing. I have three police officers in my immediate family. Each one encouraged me to carry. They were honest and said that realistically they cannot protect me or my family from harm. They might get there after the fact and do the paperwork, but only you can be responsible for your own safety. I started carrying because of their recommendations.