# The NSA is collecting America’s phone data. Again. **URL:** \ **Category:** Great Debates\ **Created:** [June 6, 2013, 2:11am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/the-nsa-is-collecting-america-s-phone-data-again/660262 "2013-06-06T02:11:48Z")\ **Posts on this page:** 20\ **Page:** 1
**Author:** ![I\_Made\_French\_Toast\_For\_You](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/i/858c86/32.png) [@I\_Made\_French\_Toast\_For\_You](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/I_Made_French_Toast_For_You)\ **Post date:** [June 6, 2013, 2:11am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/the-nsa-is-collecting-america-s-phone-data-again/660262/1 "2013-06-06T02:11:48Z")
[A breaking story](http://www.guardian.co.uk/world/2013/jun/06/nsa-phone-records-verizon-court-order?guni=Network%20front:network-front%20main-2%20Special%20trail:Network%20front%20-%20special%20trail:Position1) from The Guardian reports that the National Security Agency issued a court order requiring Verizon to disclose, daily, the phone records of millions of Americans. The order was approved by the secret FISA court (which is not surprising, as it approves almost every governement request), and phone call information will be collected until July. The justification is found once again in the Patriot Act. I say “once again” because, as most of us can recall, this same situation occurred during the Bush administration. We don’t yet know the extent to which it compares, however; all we know is that it’s happening again under Obama. Does this warrant outrage? Or will Americans be too blasé or defeated to protest? ---
**Author:** ![I\_Made\_French\_Toast\_For\_You](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/i/858c86/32.png) [@I\_Made\_French\_Toast\_For\_You](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/I_Made_French_Toast_For_You)\ **Post date:** [June 6, 2013, 2:23am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/the-nsa-is-collecting-america-s-phone-data-again/660262/2 "2013-06-06T02:23:02Z")
Some summary quotes from the article: > [@](#): > > The secret Foreign Intelligence Surveillance Court (Fisa) granted the order to the FBI on April 25, giving the government unlimited authority to obtain the data for a specified three-month period ending on July 19.Under the terms of the blanket order, the numbers of both parties on a call are handed over, as is location data, call duration, unique identifiers, and the time and duration of all calls. The contents of the conversation itself are not covered. > [@](#): > > It is not known whether Verizon is the only cell-phone provider to be targeted with such an order, although previous reporting has suggested the NSA has collected cell records from all major mobile networks. It is also unclear from the leaked document whether the three-month order was a one-off, or the latest in a series of similar orders. ---
**Author:** ![marshmallow](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/m/df705f/32.png) [@marshmallow](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/marshmallow)\ **Post date:** [June 6, 2013, 2:33am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/the-nsa-is-collecting-america-s-phone-data-again/660262/3 "2013-06-06T02:33:57Z")
> [@I\_Made\_French\_Toast\_For\_You](#): > > Does this warrant outrage? Or will Americans be too blasé or defeated to protest? Don’t most people assume the government can access their telephone and mail records whenever they want? So no biggie. And from what I remember the main reason so called progressives complained last time was because Bush was going around FISA. Obama dotted his i’s, crossed the t’s etc. So everything is peachy keen. ---
**Author:** ![Condescending\_Robot](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/c/a183cd/32.png) [@Condescending\_Robot](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Condescending_Robot)\ **Post date:** [June 6, 2013, 2:41am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/the-nsa-is-collecting-america-s-phone-data-again/660262/4 "2013-06-06T02:41:37Z")
> [@I\_Made\_French\_Toast\_For\_You](#): > > Does this warrant outrage? Or will Americans be too blasé or defeated to protest? The people with actual values and minds will be outraged. The people who follow our increasingly autocratic President as the source of right and wrong will call everyone who objects a racist or whatever it is they usually do. ---
**Author:** ![Snowboarder\_Bo](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/snowboarder_bo/32/229_2.png) [@Snowboarder\_Bo](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Snowboarder_Bo)\ **Post date:** [June 6, 2013, 3:00am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/the-nsa-is-collecting-america-s-phone-data-again/660262/5 "2013-06-06T03:00:41Z")
> [@Condescending\_Robot](#): > > The people with actual values and minds will be outraged. The people who follow our increasingly autocratic President as the source of right and wrong will call everyone who objects a racist or whatever it is they usually do. :rolleyes: ---
**Author:** ![I\_Made\_French\_Toast\_For\_You](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/i/858c86/32.png) [@I\_Made\_French\_Toast\_For\_You](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/I_Made_French_Toast_For_You)\ **Post date:** [June 6, 2013, 3:17am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/the-nsa-is-collecting-america-s-phone-data-again/660262/6 "2013-06-06T03:17:53Z")
> [@marshmallow](#): > > Don’t most people assume the government can access their telephone and mail records whenever they want? So no biggie. And from what I remember the main reason so called progressives complained last time was because Bush was going around FISA. Obama dotted his i’s, crossed the t’s etc. So everything is peachy keen. I can’t tell if you’re being sarcastic or not. It’s a surveillance and privacy issue, obviously. There’s also the issue of a why a foreign surveillance act is being used to justify domestic surveillance. In related news, I guess the Associated Press doesn’t use Verizon, because the DoJ had to subpoena those phone records independently. You know, in that big scandal that happened a couple weeks ago. ---
**Author:** ![adaher](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/a/dec6dc/32.png) [@adaher](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/adaher)\ **Post date:** [June 6, 2013, 9:44am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/the-nsa-is-collecting-america-s-phone-data-again/660262/7 "2013-06-06T09:44:29Z")
I’m sure that a) it’s a mistake, and b) the President only found out about it this morning. Just like the IRS thing, the AP thing, and Fast and Furious. Face it, he has a rogue administration that is trying to sabotage him. And BTW, why the hell is the Guardian the one to find this out? Where is our own media? Licking boots? ---
**Author:** ![DrCube](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/d/a3d4f5/32.png) [@DrCube](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/DrCube)\ **Post date:** [June 6, 2013, 12:34pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/the-nsa-is-collecting-america-s-phone-data-again/660262/8 "2013-06-06T12:34:46Z")
> [@adaher](#): > > Where is our own media? Helping the NSA spy on people? All the juicy stories are for government eyes only. Hey guys, what do you think the giant NSA data center in Utah is for, if not to store the calls, texts, tweets, or straight dope posts of every last American? What the hell else is the NSA even for? Doesn’t “NSA” stand for “Nasty people who Spy on Americans”? Who needs enemies when we’ve got groups like that “protecting” us? ---
**Author:** ![Diceman](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/d/22d042/32.png) [@Diceman](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Diceman)\ **Post date:** [June 6, 2013, 3:00pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/the-nsa-is-collecting-america-s-phone-data-again/660262/9 "2013-06-06T15:00:40Z")
> [@adaher](#): > > Face it, he has a rogue administration that is trying to sabotage him. I figure, there’s two plausable explanations: 1. Obama is an autocratic dick, who will happily steamroll people’s rights whenever it suits him, or… 2. He has his head in the sand, and doesn’t know or care what his subordinates do, until one of them bites him on the ass. I’m wondering if it might not be Option 2. Especially given the I’m-sure-it’s-all-just-coincidental sudden departure of his National Security Advisor yesterday. ---
**Author:** ![Czarcasm](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/czarcasm/32/4050_2.png) [@Czarcasm](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Czarcasm)\ **Post date:** [June 6, 2013, 3:03pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/the-nsa-is-collecting-america-s-phone-data-again/660262/10 "2013-06-06T15:03:55Z")
Is what the NSA is doing illegal? ---
**Author:** ![Chefguy](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/chefguy/32/138_2.png) [@Chefguy](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Chefguy)\ **Post date:** [June 6, 2013, 3:04pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/the-nsa-is-collecting-america-s-phone-data-again/660262/11 "2013-06-06T15:04:56Z")
> [@adaher](#): > > I’m sure that a) it’s a mistake, and b) the President only found out about it this morning. Just like the IRS thing, the AP thing, and Fast and Furious. > > Face it, he has a rogue administration that is trying to sabotage him. > > And BTW, why the hell is the Guardian the one to find this out? Where is our own media? Licking boots? The same people who, when warrantless wiretaps were authorized by Bush, dismissed concerns with the logic “if you’re not doing anything wrong, you have nothing to worry about”, will be the loudest critics snapping at Obama’s heels. The Patriot Act was a hastily approved knee-jerk, foisted on us by Dick Cheney in order to expand the powers of the President’s office. Reap, sow, etc. ---
**Author:** ![VinylTurnip](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/v/b2d939/32.png) [@VinylTurnip](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/VinylTurnip)\ **Post date:** [June 6, 2013, 3:13pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/the-nsa-is-collecting-america-s-phone-data-again/660262/12 "2013-06-06T15:13:07Z")
> [@marshmallow](#): > > Don’t most people assume the government can access their telephone and mail records whenever they want? I do. It makes me sad to do so, but it’s the only reasonable assumption. I further assume that what happened here has been going on for years, and that this is just one case we were informed about because the measures in place to keep us ignorant failed. I don’t know whether the information will be misused. But the notion of keeping our personal communication (and to a large extent, our whereabouts at all times) private from the government has already been lost forever. Some of us just haven’t quite understood and accepted it yet. ---
**Author:** ![Marley23](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/m/45deac/32.png) [@Marley23](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Marley23)\ **Post date:** [June 6, 2013, 3:16pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/the-nsa-is-collecting-america-s-phone-data-again/660262/13 "2013-06-06T15:16:02Z")
> [@Czarcasm](#): > > Is what the NSA is doing illegal? It was approved by the courts that were set up for requests like this. Whether people are OK with this kind of enormous data collection and secret approvals is another question. But let’s not get bogged down with boring legal and Constitutional questions and privacy issues; let’s snark on Obama. That’ll be much more productive. ---
**Author:** ![DCnDC](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/dcndc/32/2842_2.png) [@DCnDC](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/DCnDC)\ **Post date:** [June 6, 2013, 3:20pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/the-nsa-is-collecting-america-s-phone-data-again/660262/14 "2013-06-06T15:20:08Z")
> [@Czarcasm](#): > > Is what the NSA is doing illegal? And is what they plan on doing with this information any more or less sinister than what Verizon is doing with it already? ---
**Author:** ![Czarcasm](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/czarcasm/32/4050_2.png) [@Czarcasm](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Czarcasm)\ **Post date:** [June 6, 2013, 3:20pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/the-nsa-is-collecting-america-s-phone-data-again/660262/15 "2013-06-06T15:20:40Z")
> [@Marley23](#): > > It was approved by the courts that were set up for requests like this. Whether people are OK with this kind of enormous data collection and secret approvals is another question. But let’s not get bogged down with boring legal and Constitutional questions and privacy issues; let’s snark on Obama. That’ll be much more productive. I apologize for going off-topic. ---
**Author:** ![Condescending\_Robot](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/c/a183cd/32.png) [@Condescending\_Robot](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Condescending_Robot)\ **Post date:** [June 6, 2013, 3:23pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/the-nsa-is-collecting-america-s-phone-data-again/660262/16 "2013-06-06T15:23:21Z")
We’re well into year 5 of the Obama regime. “I just HAD to renew, expand, and defend all of this stuff that Dick Cheney foisted on me even though I detest it so” stopped working a long time ago. ---
**Author:** ![Czarcasm](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/czarcasm/32/4050_2.png) [@Czarcasm](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Czarcasm)\ **Post date:** [June 6, 2013, 3:26pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/the-nsa-is-collecting-america-s-phone-data-again/660262/17 "2013-06-06T15:26:22Z")
> [@Condescending\_Robot](#): > > We’re well into year 5 of the Obama regime. "I just HAD to renew, expand, and defend all of this stuff… Did he actually do any of those three things when it comes to what the NSA is doing? ---
**Author:** ![DCnDC](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/dcndc/32/2842_2.png) [@DCnDC](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/DCnDC)\ **Post date:** [June 6, 2013, 3:26pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/the-nsa-is-collecting-america-s-phone-data-again/660262/18 "2013-06-06T15:26:51Z")
Just FYI, courtesy of the Department of Justice via the ACLU, [here](http://www.aclu.org/cell-phone-location-tracking-request-response-cell-phone-company-data-retention-chart)’s a handy chart detailing what information your major cell service providers retain and for how long. ---
**Author:** ![newcomer](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/n/e5b9ba/32.png) [@newcomer](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/newcomer)\ **Post date:** [June 6, 2013, 3:27pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/the-nsa-is-collecting-america-s-phone-data-again/660262/19 "2013-06-06T15:27:39Z")
Obama responded with a letter that explains everything: > **[A Letter to Verizon Customers](https://www.newyorker.com/humor/borowitz-report/a-letter-to-verizon-customers)** > > While surveillance was not part of your original contract, the N.S.A. is providing this service free of charge… ---
**Author:** ![Marley23](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/m/45deac/32.png) [@Marley23](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Marley23)\ **Post date:** [June 6, 2013, 3:31pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/the-nsa-is-collecting-america-s-phone-data-again/660262/20 "2013-06-06T15:31:47Z")
> [@Czarcasm](#): > > I apologize for going off-topic. Just don’t let it happen again. [Next page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/the-nsa-is-collecting-america-s-phone-data-again/660262.md?page=2)