# The Number of the Beast **URL:** \ **Category:** Great Debates\ **Created:** [July 28, 2000, 10:27am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/the-number-of-the-beast/27178 "2000-07-28T10:27:24Z")\ **Posts on this page:** 14\ **Page:** 2
**Author:** ![Saint\_Zero](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/s/c4cdca/32.png) [@Saint\_Zero](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Saint_Zero)\ **Post date:** [July 29, 2000, 6:09pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/the-number-of-the-beast/27178/21 "2000-07-29T18:09:21Z")
> [@](#): > > \*Originally posted by Amanda Treefield \* > \*\* > > > [@](#): > > > > \*Originally posted by Saint Zero \* > > \*\*Not to quibble, but if I pull my New International Version, and the New American Standard (from [http://unbound.biola.edu/](http://unbound.biola.edu/), The Unbound Bible online) I don’t get the verse you quote. > > \*\* > > I found the quote in alt.christnet.demonology. I have no idea of which version of the bible it came from. > > Isn’t it odd? There are so many versions of ‘The one true word’ and so many versions of the same stories in it. It’s no wonder that all these christians cannot seem to agree on anything, and spend all their time preparing to smite each other mightily. > > Amanda Treefield > \*\* It helps in debates like this to have an agreed-upon version of the scripture. 🙂 The scriptures were all written in one language, but like the problem of translating Mommar Gaddifi’s name (30 variations) it comes in when translating that 2000 year old text into modern english. In my opinion, Christians do all agree on one thing: Christ will come back one day. The rest, realistically, is minor details. 🙂 ---
**Author:** ![vanilla](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/v/f19dbf/32.png) [@vanilla](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/vanilla)\ **Post date:** [July 29, 2000, 6:40pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/the-number-of-the-beast/27178/22 "2000-07-29T18:40:33Z")
I’ve heard say the antichrist is really Charles Nelson Reilly. 😉 ---
**Author:** ![vanilla](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/v/f19dbf/32.png) [@vanilla](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/vanilla)\ **Post date:** [July 29, 2000, 7:14pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/the-number-of-the-beast/27178/23 "2000-07-29T19:14:56Z")
I just HAD to post here as this is my 666 post.(it’s not me, really!) ---
**Author:** ![tracer](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/tracer/32/20578_2.png) [@tracer](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/tracer)\ **Post date:** [July 29, 2000, 11:45pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/the-number-of-the-beast/27178/24 "2000-07-29T23:45:16Z")
cmkeller wrote: > [@](#): > > In Hebrew, the letter of the alef-bet are also used as numbers, with the following correspondence: > \< snip \> So … can any of the Grecophiles out there tell us what the numerical equivalents for the _Greek_ letters were? ---
**Author:** ![Achernar](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/a/e274bd/32.png) [@Achernar](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Achernar)\ **Post date:** [July 30, 2000, 1:26am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/the-number-of-the-beast/27178/25 "2000-07-30T01:26:50Z")
[Numerics - A mathematical revelation in Scripture](http://www.rev.org/bibnum.htm) ```auto Alpha 1 Iota 10 Rho 100 Beta 2 Kappa 20 Sigma 200 Gamma 3 Lambda 30 Tau 300 Delta 4 Mu 40 Upsilon 400 Epsilon 5 Nu 50 Phi 500 Digamma 6 Xi 60 Chi 600 Zeta 7 Omicron 70 Psi 700 Eta 8 Pi 80 Omega 800 Theta 9 Koppa 90 Sampsi 900 ``` Note: Digamma, Koppa, and Sampsi became obsolete, but they were kept around for the numbering system. Try as I might, though, I can’t get any transliteration of “Neron Caesar” to add up to 666, so I may be getting something wrong. Any help? ---
**Author:** ![tomndebb](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/t/b9e5f3/32.png) [@tomndebb](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/tomndebb)\ **Post date:** [July 30, 2000, 5:02am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/the-number-of-the-beast/27178/26 "2000-07-30T05:02:54Z")
I found a site that gets to 666: [Nero 666](http://www.judaismvschristianity.com/nero666.htm) Unfortunately, they play with the numbers in unexpected ways: The Greek is given (correctly) as KAISAR NERON (_kappa alpha iota sigma alpha rho nu epsilon rho omega nu_). However, where I would transliterate that to QSR NRN (_qoph same resh nun resh nun_) (Hebrew having no vowels), they call the first alpha an “ah” and insert the Hebrew character _he_ picking up 5 points and for the second _alpha_ they use the Hebrew _aleph_, picking up a 1. I fail to see how they justify changing an _alpha_ to an “h.” And changing the second _alpha_ to an _aleph_ violates two principles: using the same letter to translate the same letter and using _aleph_ (a glottal stop, not even a vowel) to represent _alpha_. This next site comes up with a different method that (excepting my ignorance regarding the treatment of _waw_ as the letter “o”) seems to be more reliable. (Of course it uses some really strange name games to hang the 666 number on poor old John Paul II, as well.) [WILL THE BEAST OF THE END-TIMES BE NERO CAESAR WHO ADDS UP TO 666?](http://www.highpoint.net/users/speighd/dick.htm) A site that gets to Nero = 666 in the same manner as the previous is [Feedback #10](http://www.primenet.com/~heuvelc/feedback/fb10.htm) Just about everyone who really cares who the “666” indicates is heavily into discussing Fundamentalist/Pentacostal Christianity, (either affirming its truth or attacking it), so most of these sites have a certain amount of additional discussions on those sorts of topics. ---
**Author:** ![Monty](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/monty/32/47_2.png) [@Monty](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Monty)\ **Post date:** [July 30, 2000, 6:45am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/the-number-of-the-beast/27178/27 "2000-07-30T06:45:38Z")
> [@](#): > > \*Originally posted by don Jaime \* > **Here we go… > The Greek system in use at the time (Ignore the Roman! Everyone in the Greek east did.)…** I’d love to, DJ; however, the big-time fundamentalists have made a big-time deal, on this very board even, about how the church fathers used the Roman system at the same time they were using another system. I am, of course, referring to time-keeping, but you should see the point. ---
**Author:** ![lilah](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/l/e36b37/32.png) [@lilah](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/lilah)\ **Post date:** [July 31, 2000, 2:25am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/the-number-of-the-beast/27178/28 "2000-07-31T02:25:54Z")
> [@](#): > > Unfortunately, several other emperors’ names can be contorted to “spell out” 666 and the author, figuring his immediate audience would _know_ who he was talking about, did not leave us a key. > > \*\* i have it in my head somewhere (and no, there’s no cite along with it) that in variant manuscipts, the number is something other than 666–let’s say 664, for the sake of argument. there is also a variant spelling of nero caesar that works out to that number. considering the problems that nero caused the early christians, i don’t think it’s anything other than that. ---
**Author:** ![cmkeller](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/cmkeller/32/118_2.png) [@cmkeller](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/cmkeller)\ **Post date:** [July 31, 2000, 4:00pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/the-number-of-the-beast/27178/29 "2000-07-31T16:00:05Z")
Achernar: > [@](#): > > Try as I might, though, I can’t get any transliteration of “Neron Caesar” to add up to 666, so I may be getting something wrong. Any help? The Hebrew version: Nun = 50 Reish = 200 Vav = 6 Nun - 50 Kof = 100 Sameh = 60 Resh = 200 Bear in mind that Hebrew does not have any letters designated as vowels…in modern Hebrew, the vowel markings are placed under or around the letters. The “Vav” in “Neron” often silently accompanies the vowel sound “O” or “OO.” Chaim Mattis Keller ---
**Author:** ![Achernar](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/a/e274bd/32.png) [@Achernar](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Achernar)\ **Post date:** [August 1, 2000, 1:01am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/the-number-of-the-beast/27178/30 "2000-08-01T01:01:22Z")
Arrrr. So the whole 666 thing isn’t part of Greek numerology at all? Something **don Jaime** said made me think that it is. So what did I post that list for? Ugh. ---
**Author:** ![RTFirefly](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/r/c77e96/32.png) [@RTFirefly](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/RTFirefly)\ **Post date:** [August 1, 2000, 7:19pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/the-number-of-the-beast/27178/31 "2000-08-01T19:19:13Z")
> [@](#): > > i have it in my head somewhere (and no, there’s no cite along with it) that in variant manuscipts, the number is something other than 666 lilah, my recollection is that the alternative in some manuscripts is 616. I know the New English Bible has a footnote on the subject, but my copy of the NEB is at home. Tom: > [@](#): > > Unfortunately, several other emperors’ names can be contorted to “spell out” 666 and the author, figuring his immediate audience would know who he was talking about, did not leave us a key. Which left us to come up with our own. I think my favorites have been: Kissinger (A=6, B=12, C=18…) and Ronald Wilson Reagan (# letters in each name = each digit). ---
**Author:** ![jmullaney](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/j/85e7bf/32.png) [@jmullaney](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/jmullaney)\ **Post date:** [August 1, 2000, 7:46pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/the-number-of-the-beast/27178/32 "2000-08-01T19:46:04Z")
As the preceding passage indicates, John is talking about money. Money being valued numerically, John is making the point that you will recoginze the Anti-Christ because there is a number associated with him – and does seem to be making a play on the imperfectness of “6.” ---
**Author:** ![vanilla](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/v/f19dbf/32.png) [@vanilla](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/vanilla)\ **Post date:** [August 1, 2000, 9:13pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/the-number-of-the-beast/27178/33 "2000-08-01T21:13:23Z")
I’ve read enough books about this, and one of them said that it has to do with bar codes. Supposedly, the first, middle, and last “numbers” which don’t actually have numbers beneath them are the 6,6, and 6. It will be like a smart card, only on your right hand, so no one can steal it. ---
**Author:** ![jmullaney](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/j/85e7bf/32.png) [@jmullaney](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/jmullaney)\ **Post date:** [August 1, 2000, 10:09pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/the-number-of-the-beast/27178/34 "2000-08-01T22:09:04Z")
Oh yeah sure. Only bar codes were really big back then and required two camels to move them around so they didn’t use them much.:rolleyes: [Previous page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/the-number-of-the-beast/27178.md?page=1)