the numbing of our society

We interact with people just as much as we always did. (Unless you’re the Unabomer, in which case you aren’t reading this.) We just don’t interact with people in immediate physical proximity the way we used to, and we don’t interact using the same tools as we formerly did – i.e., face to face.

Some will decry this, labeling it a “collapse of values” or a “deterioration of humanity” or whatever, as I gather you are, flood. I hesitate to buy into this, though, because I feel the human animal has enormous resiliency to change. Paradoxically, of course, the human animal, taken collectively, has a great fear of change; name any advance, any step forward in progress without an obvious downside, and you’ll have people lining up against it, merely because it’s different, and different is scary.

That said, I do think mass communication is having an impact on us. Consider our relationship to celebrities. We’ve always had well-known people and cults of fame; remember the fans lining up on the docks of New York to get the latest Dickens installment? Remember the old newspaper column, “What Babe Ruth Did Today”?

However, in today’s world, it’s slightly different, I think. Consider how concerned we all are about the Affleck/Lopez merger – I mean, marriage. Practically speaking, who gives a shit? And yet, these are people whose faces are writ large before us on the movie screen, or whose personalities are injected into our living rooms on a nightly basis. I believe this triggers some underlying bit of our software, recognition and familiarity or something, to the degree that, counter to rationality, we actually feel like we know these people. And not just facts (birthday, city of residence, etc.). No, their media appearance, I think, simulates the sort of interaction we get with people in our actual lives, and we are therefore deceived on a deep level.

But most of us, consciously, recognize we don’t really know these people. Just because we know about David Letterman’s troubles with Connecticut highway patrolmen doesn’t mean we’re going to be invited to his birthday party. A small number of people can’t make this distinction, which is where stalkers come from, but in general I don’t think it’s out of bounds to assert that at least some of our need for personal interaction can be supplanted and satisfied by this simulated version.

But I’ll go back to what Derleth said: The Internet provides a very different form of interaction, in that, even though these are just words on a screen, you know there’s an actual person behind them. You have no idea what I look like, or where I might have been when I wrote them (or as you read them now), but it’s an actual person with actual opinions and emotions and needs and everything else. It’s a two-way street, truly interactive, which is vastly different than the one-way flow of sludge that is everything you know about Larry King’s revolving marital door.

I’m also not saying, by the way, that there’s no possibility that this won’t have a negative impact in the long term. Certainly that chance exists. All I’m really saying is that I don’t fear change on the mere basis that it’s different, and that, as yet, I don’t see the collapse of civilization so many people are squawking about. It’s worth keeping an eye on, but there’s absolutely no reason to send everybody to battle stations, either.

Ya but…
What about the direction of people not having to own what they say anymore because they are anonymous now hiding behind the computer. There are no real consequences to being disrespectful, dishonest or discourteous. I see a great change in the attitude of the ‘mouths’ on the younger generation and their ‘assumption’ that hey can talk in real life like they do on the net. Until all the old fogies are gone, there seems to be a real potential for train wrecks in the old fashioned fade to face sector.

YMMV

YMMV, indeed. That might actually do us all a favor, improving our ability to identify the jerks, who don’t know any more they have to hide it.

well, flood, honey, I understood ya from the beginning of the thread.

To answer the OP: I don’t think we’ve even scratched the surface of it. I don’t think it will stop until…

we’ve all got chips implanted in our brains to bring us the latest News! and Shopping! so that we are all connected together into the mega whopper consumer who …

oops wrong movie :wink:

flood, I think your main point of misunderstanding (or contention) is that while the superficial trappings of communciation are changing (replacing one physical apparatus with another, whether the vocal cords are being replaced by the telephone or the eye is being replaced with the camera), the basic flow of ideas and human contact remains the same. Emotions don’t care how they are expressed, as long as there is an expression and someone is at the other end of it to care. Are Poe’s writings about Anabelle Lee any less profound for the century of time that separates us from him? Are the teachings of the Dalai Lama any less important for the thousands of miles that stands between him and I? No. Communication at every level, intellectual and emotional, carries on regardless of distance or medium of communication.

Secondly, and more importantly, humans are gregarious beings by nature. Most humans actively seek out others to be around for the simple reason most humans enjoy being with other humans. You can observe this in any cafeteria: Anyone can, theoretically, sit anywhere he chooses, but people form into distinguishable clumps that then engage in active communication. Some people do choose to sit alone, but those people are uncommon. It is a common human drive to seek out human contact, one that can only be overridden by psychological abnormalities.

Technology is not working against that drive. In fact, technology is being improved to satisfy it. Witness the progression of communications technology: From dumb marks on clay given voice as a written language to recorded images and sound (that can bridge both temporal and physical gaps) to two-way sound communication (partially satisfying the need for two-way human communication) to broadcast images and sound (followed soon after by a way to record those broadcasts) to two-way video communication (webcams, which go most of the way to satisfying the need, leaving out only physical contact and scent cues). It is a rather strong progression towards full communication, a striving to unbound traditional face-to-face communication from both physical and temporal boundaries. We are actively trying to recreate face-to-face communication in a system that lets us forget about differences in both physical location and time.

flood, your concerns are unfounded. Humans are, by nature, more social than that.

Ancedote:

I have witness two posters on this board posting in quick succession as if this were IM. When I pointed out that perhaps they should take it to chat, one of the posters said they were spouses posting from separate room IN THE SAME FREAKIN’ HOUSE. (emphasis mine).

Now that’s pathetic.

Apropos to the topic here, also, I believe.

The Internet is good, flood. Enjoy it. Embrace it.

I’m certainly not trying to argue a point. My concerns maybe unfounded, but that’s because this is a hypothetical situation. The reason I brought this up, is because I’m conducting a study on the use of the Internet, and its link toward depression and antisocial behavior for a research and design class. My point was that while we might be seeing an increase in the amount of communication between people, these same people are miserable in reality because of their dependence on the Internet. Certain people may display antisocial behavior, or have a problem communicating with people. As a result, they use the Internet as a sort of release or escape. You can’t say that there aren’t some people out there that are like that. While I can’t say that we are all bound to become like this, I can say that there has been a marked increase in depression in the population within the last 5-10 years. I do agree with many of the points that you bring up Derleth, but you shouldn’t be so quick as to write off the fact that the Internet depresses the hell out of some people and that the advances in technology may well bring up an age of antisocial behavior. Or maybe I’m just a pessimist…

flood - perhaps the reported cases of depression are up now. Heck - you can’t watch TV without seeing ads for anti-depressants. The increasing acceptance of mental illness and the fact that the doctors and drug companies have an interest in seeing people diagnosed with (and treated for) depression would cause an increase in diagnoses. That doesn’t mean that people are neccesarily more depressed than they were 20 years ago, or that the cause of the depression is the internet.

StG

True, but it kind of makes you wonder why people are so depressed these days. You cant write off the fact that alot of these people are diagnosed with antisocial behavior. Whatever the case maybe, I still maintain that a good number of people out there are addicted to the Internet just like any other person might be addicted to any other type of drug. I’m not sure how this ties into my original question though. Somewhere in the middle of all this, the thread involved into an argument about whether people are becoming seperated or not. Its interesting though :slight_smile: