# The numbnut who had the freakout at the Arlen Specter townhall meeting **URL:** \ **Category:** The BBQ Pit\ **Created:** [August 12, 2009, 7:14pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/the-numbnut-who-had-the-freakout-at-the-arlen-specter-townhall-meeting/506206 "2009-08-12T19:14:32Z")\ **Posts on this page:** 20\ **Page:** 14
**Author:** ![El\_Kabong](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/el_kabong/32/496_2.png) [@El\_Kabong](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/El_Kabong)\ **Post date:** [August 14, 2009, 3:20am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/the-numbnut-who-had-the-freakout-at-the-arlen-specter-townhall-meeting/506206/261 "2009-08-14T03:20:08Z")
> [@Rand\_Rover](#): > > I don’t think that I should be forced to pay for your health care. If you die because you cannot afford health care, well, tough shit. You rolled the dice and came up snake eyes. Not my problem, lady. If you were my mom or wife or kid or whatever, I’d pay for your health care, but you’re just some lady on the internet, so tough shit. Looking at this as you dying for my ideals is a really strange way of looking at it. Thing is, it doesn’t appear that there are enough like-minded folk around to keep you from eventually paying for some tiny fraction of **jsgoddess** ’s (or others’) health care, just as some of your tax burden already goes to programs such as Social Security, Medicare and Medicaid. What’s more, no one around here seems to care very much at all whether your tax burden happens to go up by 3 percent or whatever. So what good is it doing you to bitch endlessly about it on this particular message board anyway? I’ve gotta say I marvel at your genius for alienating other people. I really have no clue what you think you are accomplishing here, and I have rarely seen anyone so ham-handedly inept at attempting to represent one’s own interests. ---
**Author:** ![Rand\_Rover](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/r/db5fbb/32.png) [@Rand\_Rover](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Rand_Rover)\ **Post date:** [August 14, 2009, 3:44am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/the-numbnut-who-had-the-freakout-at-the-arlen-specter-townhall-meeting/506206/262 "2009-08-14T03:44:22Z")
> [@El\_Kabong](#): > > Thing is, it doesn’t appear that there are enough like-minded folk around to keep you from eventually paying for some tiny fraction of **jsgoddess** ’s (or others’) health care, just as some of your tax burden already goes to programs such as Social Security, Medicare and Medicaid. What’s more, no one around here seems to care very much at all whether your tax burden happens to go up by 3 percent or whatever. So what good is it doing you to bitch endlessly about it on this particular message board anyway? > > I’ve gotta say I marvel at your genius for alienating other people. I really have no clue what you think you are accomplishing here, and I have rarely seen anyone so ham-handedly inept at attempting to represent one’s own interests. Dance, monkey, dance. ---
**Author:** ![El\_Kabong](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/el_kabong/32/496_2.png) [@El\_Kabong](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/El_Kabong)\ **Post date:** [August 14, 2009, 3:48am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/the-numbnut-who-had-the-freakout-at-the-arlen-specter-townhall-meeting/506206/263 "2009-08-14T03:48:24Z")
> [@Rand\_Rover](#): > > Dance, monkey, dance. OK, I think we’re pretty much done here. Off to Coventry with you. ---
**Author:** ![Rand\_Rover](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/r/db5fbb/32.png) [@Rand\_Rover](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Rand_Rover)\ **Post date:** [August 14, 2009, 3:50am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/the-numbnut-who-had-the-freakout-at-the-arlen-specter-townhall-meeting/506206/264 "2009-08-14T03:50:35Z")
I know about the underground river, motherfucker. ---
**Author:** ![elucidator](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/e/8edcca/32.png) [@elucidator](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/elucidator)\ **Post date:** [August 14, 2009, 4:21am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/the-numbnut-who-had-the-freakout-at-the-arlen-specter-townhall-meeting/506206/265 "2009-08-14T04:21:41Z")
You mean, the sewer? ---
**Author:** ![Guinastasia](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/guinastasia/32/5751_2.png) [@Guinastasia](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Guinastasia)\ **Post date:** [August 14, 2009, 4:26am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/the-numbnut-who-had-the-freakout-at-the-arlen-specter-townhall-meeting/506206/266 "2009-08-14T04:26:33Z")
> [@elucidator](#): > > You mean, the sewer? Big surprise. 😉 ---
**Author:** ![Mr.Svinlesha](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/m/22d042/32.png) [@Mr.Svinlesha](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Mr.Svinlesha)\ **Post date:** [August 14, 2009, 5:20am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/the-numbnut-who-had-the-freakout-at-the-arlen-specter-townhall-meeting/506206/267 "2009-08-14T05:20:26Z")
**Rand Rover:** > [@](#): > > \*Apologies for the delay. The answer is: Society works best when the government does the least possible. > > I’m sure you’ll dismiss that as sloganeering, but it is a fully sufficient and rational reason to not support UHC, even if you disagree with it.\* Yes, counselor, unless you have some kind of evidence with which you can support this claim, it really is nothing but an empty slogan. We do know that publicly run health care systems in other countries are less expensive, more effective, and (generally) achieve better outcomes than the US system. We know that public satisfaction with these systems in these countries is much higher than the satisfaction US consumers express in relation to their current private health care system. We also know that the deregulation of the banking and investment sector over the last two decades was directly responsible for the economic meltdown that nearly tanked the world economy. These facts alone seem to falsify your assertion, as far as I can tell, unless you have some very obscure definition of the phrase “_society works best._” I also found this floating around on the net, and for some reason it made me think of you: > [@](#): > > ``` > Joe gets up at 6:00am to prepare his morning coffee. He fills his pot full of good clean drinking water because some liberal fought for minimum water quality standards. He takes his daily medication with his first swallow of coffee. His medications are safe to take because some liberal fought to insure their safety, and that they work as advertised. > > All but $10.00 of his medications are paid for by his employers medical plan because some liberal union workers fought their employers for paid medical insurance, now Joe gets it too. He prepares his morning breakfast, bacon and eggs this day. Joe’s bacon is safe to eat because some liberal fought for laws to regulate the meat packing industry. > > Joe takes his morning shower reaching for his shampoo; His bottle is properly labeled with every ingredient and the amount of its contents because some liberal fought for his right to know what he was putting on his body and how much it contained. Joe dresses, walks outside and takes a deep breath. The air he breathes is clean because some tree hugging liberal fought for laws to stop industries from polluting our air. He walks to the subway station for his government subsidized ride to work; it saves him considerable money in parking and transportation fees. You see, some liberal fought for affordable public transportation, which gives everyone the opportunity to be a contributor. > > Joe begins his work day; he has a good job with excellent pay, medicals benefits, retirement, paid holidays and vacation because some liberal union members fought and died for these working standards. Joe’s employer pays these standards because Joe’s employer doesn’t want his employees to call the union. If Joe is hurt on the job or becomes unemployed he’ll get a worker compensation or unemployment check because some liberal didn’t think he should loose his home because of his temporary misfortune. > > Its noon time, Joe needs to make a Bank Deposit so he can pay some bills. Joe’s deposit is federally insured by the FDIC because some liberal wanted to protect Joe’s money from unscrupulous bankers who ruined the banking system before the depression. > > Joe has to pay his Fannie Mae underwritten Mortgage and his below market federal student loan because some stupid liberal decided that Joe and the government would be better off if he was educated and earned more money over his life-time. > > Joe is home from work, he plans to visit his father this evening at his farm home in the country. He gets in his car for the drive to dads; his car is among the safest in the world because some liberal fought for car safety standards. He arrives at his boyhood home. He was the third generation to live in the house financed by Farmers Home Administration because bankers didn’t want to make rural loans. The house didn’t have electric until some big government liberal stuck his nose where it didn’t belong and demanded rural electrification. (Those rural Republican’s would still be sitting in the dark) > > He is happy to see his dad who is now retired. His dad lives on Social Security and his union pension because some liberal made sure he could take care of himself so Joe wouldn’t have to. After his visit with dad he gets back in his car for the ride home. > He turns on a radio talk show, the host’s keeps saying that liberals are bad and conservatives are good. (He doesn’t tell Joe that his beloved Republicans have fought against every protection and benefit Joe enjoys throughout his day) Joe agrees, **"We don’t need those big government liberals ruining our lives; after all, I’m a self made man who believes everyone should take care of themselves, just like I have"**. > > ``` Finally, I’m a bit curious about your response to **jsgodess** , given your belief in the efficacy of small governments. To her you write, _“Because I think that all the government should do is protect us from other countries and terrorists.”_ These criteria seems quite arbitrary to me. Don’t you think those sorts of protections could be better handled by the private sector as well? And really, why should I pay the government to protect _you_, or your property? Sounds like a handout to me. ---
**Author:** ![Der\_Trihs](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/der_trihs/32/233_2.png) [@Der\_Trihs](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Der_Trihs)\ **Post date:** [August 14, 2009, 5:27am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/the-numbnut-who-had-the-freakout-at-the-arlen-specter-townhall-meeting/506206/268 "2009-08-14T05:27:04Z")
> [@Rand\_Rover](#): > > If you die because you cannot afford health care, well, tough shit. You rolled the dice and came up snake eyes. Not my problem, lady. If you were my mom or wife or kid or whatever, I’d pay for your health care, but you’re just some lady on the internet, so tough shit. And when I refer to you as the guy who thinks “The weak shall perish”, you complain that I’m quoting you out of context. :rolleyes: I still find it amusing that you actually agreed with a quote from a TV villain, which I had picked as a _reductio ad absurdum_. I really expected you to backpedal instead. ---
**Author:** ![Rand\_Rover](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/r/db5fbb/32.png) [@Rand\_Rover](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Rand_Rover)\ **Post date:** [August 14, 2009, 12:23pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/the-numbnut-who-had-the-freakout-at-the-arlen-specter-townhall-meeting/506206/269 "2009-08-14T12:23:31Z")
Der Trihs, you are just physically unable to shake yourself out of the belief that if the government doesn’t provide something then people won’t have it. People will take responsiblity for themselves if the other option is to sit there and rot. Also, there are plenty of charities already, and there would likely be more if the goverment got out of the charity business. ---
**Author:** ![Rand\_Rover](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/r/db5fbb/32.png) [@Rand\_Rover](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Rand_Rover)\ **Post date:** [August 14, 2009, 12:25pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/the-numbnut-who-had-the-freakout-at-the-arlen-specter-townhall-meeting/506206/270 "2009-08-14T12:25:10Z")
Also, as I’ve explained many times, when I ageed with the statement you love so much, the context showed that what I meant is that some people are going to essentially commit suicide and there’s nothing anyone can do to stop them. ---
**Author:** ![SmashTheState](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/s/e36b37/32.png) [@SmashTheState](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/SmashTheState)\ **Post date:** [August 14, 2009, 12:51pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/the-numbnut-who-had-the-freakout-at-the-arlen-specter-townhall-meeting/506206/271 "2009-08-14T12:51:35Z")
Hey RandRover, if you really want to return to the law of the jungle, I’m ready any time you are, baby. You think your life of certified chartered accounting has prepared you for life without a safety net? I’d be just as happy to take all your toys away by main force, myself, and I know a lot of my comrades feel the same way. You hide behind the skirts of the State’s protection, all the while crying about all the stuff the State is doing to protect you from people like me – like welfare, universal health care, and labour laws. Without those crumbs to the hungry masses, my comrades and I would be leading hordes of raging proles through your house, taking back all the shit you’ve stolen from the rest of us. You think the New Deal was for OUR benefit? All of North America was teetering on the brink of armed insurrection, and the unions were powerful, militant, and growing. The New Deal was created to keep YOUR sorry ass off the firing line by taking away our strength, giving people just enough to keep them from saying “fuck it” and picking up a gun. Hey, sparky, if you want to pull off the kid gloves and go hammer and tongs in the streets, we’re up for it any time you are. Bring an army. ---
**Author:** ![Rand\_Rover](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/r/db5fbb/32.png) [@Rand\_Rover](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Rand_Rover)\ **Post date:** [August 14, 2009, 1:10pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/the-numbnut-who-had-the-freakout-at-the-arlen-specter-townhall-meeting/506206/272 "2009-08-14T13:10:58Z")
Sounds like a plan to me. I’ll just distract you by throwing a twinky just over your shoulder and then take 10 steps back, confident that you couldn’t cover the distance without a rest break. ---
**Author:** ![Rand\_Rover](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/r/db5fbb/32.png) [@Rand\_Rover](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Rand_Rover)\ **Post date:** [August 14, 2009, 1:18pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/the-numbnut-who-had-the-freakout-at-the-arlen-specter-townhall-meeting/506206/273 "2009-08-14T13:18:40Z")
Also, you are free to take back absolutely everything I’ve stolen from the rest of society. ---
**Author:** ![Don\_t\_Call\_Me\_Shirley](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/d/f4b2a3/32.png) [@Don\_t\_Call\_Me\_Shirley](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Don_t_Call_Me_Shirley)\ **Post date:** [August 14, 2009, 1:36pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/the-numbnut-who-had-the-freakout-at-the-arlen-specter-townhall-meeting/506206/274 "2009-08-14T13:36:56Z")
> [@Rand\_Rover](#): > > Also, you are free to take back absolutely everything I’ve stolen from the rest of society. How many times do we have to go down this same road? You can start by paying back everything the government spent on your public education. Also, I’m not too crazy about you driving on the roads that I’ve paid for, so I’d like that money back too. ---
**Author:** ![elucidator](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/e/8edcca/32.png) [@elucidator](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/elucidator)\ **Post date:** [August 14, 2009, 1:41pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/the-numbnut-who-had-the-freakout-at-the-arlen-specter-townhall-meeting/506206/275 "2009-08-14T13:41:39Z")
Clearly, though, you can keep your massive self-esteem. Since it has no basis in reality, we can safely conclude it is entirely your own. ---
**Author:** ![El\_Kabong](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/el_kabong/32/496_2.png) [@El\_Kabong](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/El_Kabong)\ **Post date:** [August 14, 2009, 1:44pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/the-numbnut-who-had-the-freakout-at-the-arlen-specter-townhall-meeting/506206/276 "2009-08-14T13:44:47Z")
> [@Don\_t\_Call\_Me\_Shirley](#): > > How many times do we have to go down this same road? Psst. Post 262. He’s just trying to wind everyone up. Don’t waste your time. ---
**Author:** ![Gyrate](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/gyrate/32/3588_2.png) [@Gyrate](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Gyrate)\ **Post date:** [August 14, 2009, 1:45pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/the-numbnut-who-had-the-freakout-at-the-arlen-specter-townhall-meeting/506206/277 "2009-08-14T13:45:22Z")
Since no one’s said this yet: > [@Rand\_Rover](#): > > You know who else used absurd caricature to denigrate people he didn’t like? Ayn Rand, ironically (apart from the “he” part). ---
**Author:** ![Rand\_Rover](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/r/db5fbb/32.png) [@Rand\_Rover](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Rand_Rover)\ **Post date:** [August 14, 2009, 2:27pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/the-numbnut-who-had-the-freakout-at-the-arlen-specter-townhall-meeting/506206/278 "2009-08-14T14:27:35Z")
> [@El\_Kabong](#): > > Psst. Post 262. He’s just trying to wind everyone up. Don’t waste your time. Everyone? No. Just those looking to get wound up. I try not to disappoint. ---
**Author:** ![Rand\_Rover](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/r/db5fbb/32.png) [@Rand\_Rover](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Rand_Rover)\ **Post date:** [August 14, 2009, 2:29pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/the-numbnut-who-had-the-freakout-at-the-arlen-specter-townhall-meeting/506206/279 "2009-08-14T14:29:43Z")
> [@Gyrate](#): > > Since no one’s said this yet: > Ayn Rand, ironically (apart from the “he” part). I agree–the books are fiction, so caricature to make a point is de rigeur. ---
**Author:** ![Katriona](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/katriona/32/113_2.png) [@Katriona](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Katriona)\ **Post date:** [August 14, 2009, 2:52pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/the-numbnut-who-had-the-freakout-at-the-arlen-specter-townhall-meeting/506206/280 "2009-08-14T14:52:23Z")
> [@Mr.Svinlesha](#): > > I will tell you what I am coming to believe. I do not think democracy can survive the information delivery systems now available to modern societies. For democracy to function – and by that, I mean for it to be a source of wise, benevolent policy – it requires a well educated, well informed public. It’s citizens must be capable of rationality and critical reflection. After the last eight years, and now watching the very people who have the most to gain from UHC idiotically frittering away the opportunity out of sheer ignorance, it has become very clear to me that the majority of Americans do not posses these characteristics. I’ve said this before, but…this is precisely why “Idiocracy” made me want to cry instead of laugh. It’s not the future. We’re already there. [Previous page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/the-numbnut-who-had-the-freakout-at-the-arlen-specter-townhall-meeting/506206.md?page=13) [Next page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/the-numbnut-who-had-the-freakout-at-the-arlen-specter-townhall-meeting/506206.md?page=15)