# The numeral "7" - With crossbar or without? **URL:** \ **Category:** In My Humble Opinion\ **Created:** [February 2, 2009, 12:51am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/the-numeral-7-with-crossbar-or-without/484055 "2009-02-02T00:51:30Z")\ **Posts on this page:** 20\ **Page:** 1
**Author:** ![hekk](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/h/50afbb/32.png) [@hekk](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/hekk)\ **Post date:** [February 2, 2009, 12:51am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/the-numeral-7-with-crossbar-or-without/484055/1 "2009-02-02T00:51:30Z")
When you write the numeral “7”, do you include the crossbar in the middle or not? I do, but I think I was taught this way in elementary school. Many people I know don’t. I know that this style is popular in Germany, but is there a regional North American variation involved here? Also, my “4” has a open top, to distinguish it from my “9”. ---
**Author:** ![Johnny\_L.A](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/johnny_l.a/32/1084_2.png) [@Johnny\_L.A](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Johnny_L.A)\ **Post date:** [February 2, 2009, 12:59am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/the-numeral-7-with-crossbar-or-without/484055/2 "2009-02-02T00:59:34Z")
Crossed sevens, since high school German. Fours are closed at the top. ---
**Author:** ![Amp](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/a/6a8cbe/32.png) [@Amp](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Amp)\ **Post date:** [February 2, 2009, 1:07am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/the-numeral-7-with-crossbar-or-without/484055/3 "2009-02-02T01:07:35Z")
> [@Johnny\_L.A](#): > > Crossed sevens, since high school German. Hey, me too. Also slashes through the zero. ---
**Author:** ![HongKongFooey](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/h/c4cdca/32.png) [@HongKongFooey](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/HongKongFooey)\ **Post date:** [February 2, 2009, 1:07am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/the-numeral-7-with-crossbar-or-without/484055/4 "2009-02-02T01:07:49Z")
> [@Johnny\_L.A](#): > > Crossed sevens, since high school German. > > Fours are closed at the top. Me too, on both counts. I also cross my zeds. ---
**Author:** ![Nightingale](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/n/ecae2f/32.png) [@Nightingale](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Nightingale)\ **Post date:** [February 2, 2009, 1:09am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/the-numeral-7-with-crossbar-or-without/484055/5 "2009-02-02T01:09:01Z")
Crossed sevens, open fours, and slashed zeros since nursing school. ---
**Author:** ![Hanna](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/h/b3f665/32.png) [@Hanna](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Hanna)\ **Post date:** [February 2, 2009, 1:09am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/the-numeral-7-with-crossbar-or-without/484055/6 "2009-02-02T01:09:42Z")
I do. My writing isn’t the greatest. I wasn’t taught it, but one of my professors did them that way and on a math test I got a problem wrong when in one of my calculations I got a 7 mixed up with a 2. I also do open top 4’s. ---
**Author:** ![Cat\_Whisperer](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/cat_whisperer/32/4839_2.png) [@Cat\_Whisperer](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Cat_Whisperer)\ **Post date:** [February 2, 2009, 1:24am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/the-numeral-7-with-crossbar-or-without/484055/7 "2009-02-02T01:24:09Z")
My sevens tend to look like a one, so I cross them (zeds too). My fours are halfway between open and closed. ETA: Crossed sevens are not the norm here, but they aren’t too unusual, either. Very much a personal preference. ---
**Author:** ![Savannah](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/s/b3f665/32.png) [@Savannah](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Savannah)\ **Post date:** [February 2, 2009, 1:24am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/the-numeral-7-with-crossbar-or-without/484055/8 "2009-02-02T01:24:10Z")
Crossed sevens, crossed zeds, usually open four, and sometimes crossed zeros. ---
**Author:** ![Diogenes\_the\_Cynic](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/d/e99b99/32.png) [@Diogenes\_the\_Cynic](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Diogenes_the_Cynic)\ **Post date:** [February 2, 2009, 1:27am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/the-numeral-7-with-crossbar-or-without/484055/9 "2009-02-02T01:27:35Z")
I do it, but I spent a lot of my formative years overseas. ---
**Author:** ![Vox\_Imperatoris](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/v/f9ae1b/32.png) [@Vox\_Imperatoris](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Vox_Imperatoris)\ **Post date:** [February 2, 2009, 1:29am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/the-numeral-7-with-crossbar-or-without/484055/10 "2009-02-02T01:29:04Z")
7, the way God intended. I also use open 4’s, not that that stops them looking like 9’s. Valete, Vox Imperatoris ETA: And my “zees” are all in cursive, so crossing wouldn’t apply. ---
**Author:** ![hekk](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/h/50afbb/32.png) [@hekk](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/hekk)\ **Post date:** [February 2, 2009, 1:31am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/the-numeral-7-with-crossbar-or-without/484055/11 "2009-02-02T01:31:01Z")
I also cross my zeros, but I think that it might be because of my line of work. I remember from high school German that the “1” has a big ass serif on top (almost to the point of looking like a “7”), but I don’t draw it that way. I was taught the closed “4”, but it got mixed up just too much with my “9” so I taught myself to change it. ---
**Author:** ![tumbleddown](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/t/e9bcb4/32.png) [@tumbleddown](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/tumbleddown)\ **Post date:** [February 2, 2009, 1:31am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/the-numeral-7-with-crossbar-or-without/484055/12 "2009-02-02T01:31:35Z")
Looped 2s, closed-top 4s, crossed 7s, crossed 0s, crossed Zs. American born and raised. I just prefer to eliminate all ambiguities. Also, since arthritis is taking its toll on me, I have the handwriting of a psychopath, so it’s kind of necessary. ---
**Author:** ![Johnny\_L.A](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/johnny_l.a/32/1084_2.png) [@Johnny\_L.A](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Johnny_L.A)\ **Post date:** [February 2, 2009, 1:33am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/the-numeral-7-with-crossbar-or-without/484055/13 "2009-02-02T01:33:07Z")
> [@Amp](#): > > Hey, me too. Also slashes through the zero. I got into the habit of slashing zeros at the same time. This was reinforced by getting a job in computers. But I (mostly) broke the habit after visiting Sweden, where Ø is a letter. ---
**Author:** ![silenus](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/silenus/32/166_2.png) [@silenus](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/silenus)\ **Post date:** [February 2, 2009, 1:33am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/the-numeral-7-with-crossbar-or-without/484055/14 "2009-02-02T01:33:43Z")
Crossed 7s, crossed Zs, open 4s, crossed Zeroes. ---
**Author:** ![Digital\_Stimulus](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/d/aeb1de/32.png) [@Digital\_Stimulus](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Digital_Stimulus)\ **Post date:** [February 2, 2009, 1:38am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/the-numeral-7-with-crossbar-or-without/484055/15 "2009-02-02T01:38:17Z")
After I became a CS major, I changed the way I write numerals. Crossed sevens and zeros, single stroke fours (like the Fantastic Four), twos without a loop (like a typewritten 2), and two separate circles for eights. I also cross my Zs (to distinguish them from 2s). None of that was the way I was taught to write. ---
**Author:** ![spike404](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/s/aeb1de/32.png) [@spike404](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/spike404)\ **Post date:** [February 2, 2009, 1:52am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/the-numeral-7-with-crossbar-or-without/484055/16 "2009-02-02T01:52:16Z")
I just wish that computers would cross the zero! Very difficult to determine the difference between O, and 0. Also, verbally I never say, Oh, for zero. Oh is a letter, zero is a numeral. ---
**Author:** ![Spectre\_of\_Pithecanthropus](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/spectre_of_pithecanthropus/32/12343_2.png) [@Spectre\_of\_Pithecanthropus](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Spectre_of_Pithecanthropus)\ **Post date:** [February 2, 2009, 1:58am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/the-numeral-7-with-crossbar-or-without/484055/17 "2009-02-02T01:58:59Z")
We’re not taught to do that here in the United States, but I think most everyone understands it. Nevertheless, I do cross 7s and Zs, sometimes. My handwriting is terrible, so I’ll do anything to reduce confusion. ---
**Author:** ![Chefguy](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/chefguy/32/138_2.png) [@Chefguy](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Chefguy)\ **Post date:** [February 2, 2009, 2:02am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/the-numeral-7-with-crossbar-or-without/484055/18 "2009-02-02T02:02:47Z")
Closed 4s since graphics class in high school. Crossed 7s since living in Germany for three years. Also, it keeps someone from confusing a hastily written 7 with a one. ---
**Author:** ![pulykamell](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/pulykamell/32/3166_2.png) [@pulykamell](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/pulykamell)\ **Post date:** [February 2, 2009, 2:13am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/the-numeral-7-with-crossbar-or-without/484055/19 "2009-02-02T02:13:02Z")
Crossed 7s. Open 4s. Sometimes I cross my z, usually not. Zeros are plain “0.” ---
**Author:** ![elfkin477](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/e/a9a28c/32.png) [@elfkin477](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/elfkin477)\ **Post date:** [February 2, 2009, 2:16am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/the-numeral-7-with-crossbar-or-without/484055/20 "2009-02-02T02:16:11Z")
Since the majority of people just use a straight up-down line for a one these days without any attempt to be fancy, I’m not sure I understand the point of crossed sevens. OTOH, some of my numbers are odd looking anyway. You know how an open 4 has that little bit sticking out on the right? Mine don’t, they stop at the straight up-down part. And The up-down part of a 5? I don’t do that either, but have an angled line off the loop. I’ve only ever had one person complain, though. (she thought it was remotely possible \*someone \*might think my 5 was a 3, not that she had any problem herself telling them apart.) [Next page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/the-numeral-7-with-crossbar-or-without/484055.md?page=2)