# The NYC biker gang beat down **URL:** \ **Category:** Miscellaneous and Personal Stuff I Must Share\ **Created:** [October 3, 2013, 1:14am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/the-nyc-biker-gang-beat-down/670236 "2013-10-03T01:14:29Z")\ **Posts on this page:** 20\ **Page:** 5
**Author:** ![doreen](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/d/858c86/32.png) [@doreen](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/doreen)\ **Post date:** [October 5, 2013, 2:02am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/the-nyc-biker-gang-beat-down/670236/81 "2013-10-05T02:02:05Z")
> [@Glazer](#): > > Why would you drive past a blocked entrance? In this case it was some yahoos trying to hog the road. But it could just as likely be because there was an accident ahead and citizens helping keep it clear for life flight or something. Because that literally never happens in NYC. I’ve never seen the entrances to a highway blocked by civilians for a legitimate reason and I’ve seen police vehicles in NYC do it rarely -for events like the marathon and catastrophes much bigger than an auto or motorcycle accident.Civilians will sometimes block ordinary streets if an accident renders the street impassable, but that’s to prevent a long line of vehicles entering the street and getting stuck. If by “life flight” you mean a plane or a helicopter that’s going to land on the highway to fly someone to a hospital, that doesn’t happen either. ---
**Author:** ![Glazer](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/g/a88e57/32.png) [@Glazer](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Glazer)\ **Post date:** [October 5, 2013, 2:04am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/the-nyc-biker-gang-beat-down/670236/82 "2013-10-05T02:04:14Z")
Y’all don’t have Life Flight? In a city with that much traffic? ---
**Author:** ![doreen](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/d/858c86/32.png) [@doreen](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/doreen)\ **Post date:** [October 5, 2013, 2:15am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/the-nyc-biker-gang-beat-down/670236/83 "2013-10-05T02:15:13Z")
> [@Glazer](#): > > Y’all don’t have Life Flight? In a city with that much traffic? By the time you cleared the traffic for the plane to land, the ambulance could have gotten to the hospital already. Remember , we’ve got a lot of people in a relatively small area and consequently a lot of hospitals. I’ve got 5 hospitals within a normal (not ambulance) 20 minute or so drive of my house and I think four of them have Level 1 trauma centers- they’re the sort of places that people are air-lifted to. ---
**Author:** ![newcomer](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/n/e5b9ba/32.png) [@newcomer](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/newcomer)\ **Post date:** [October 5, 2013, 2:21am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/the-nyc-biker-gang-beat-down/670236/84 "2013-10-05T02:21:00Z")
This is how they do it in Russia: [![](https://img.youtube.com/vi/4-uQuU0ydaY/maxresdefault.jpg "Учитель на байке") ](https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=4-uQuU0ydaY) Action starts at 0:54. Best part at 1:40 😃 ---
**Author:** ![Glazer](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/g/a88e57/32.png) [@Glazer](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Glazer)\ **Post date:** [October 5, 2013, 2:37am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/the-nyc-biker-gang-beat-down/670236/85 "2013-10-05T02:37:45Z")
> [@doreen](#): > > By the time you cleared the traffic for the plane to land, the ambulance could have gotten to the hospital already. Remember , we’ve got a lot of people in a relatively small area and consequently a lot of hospitals. I’ve got 5 hospitals within a normal (not ambulance) 20 minute or so drive of my house and I think four of them have Level 1 trauma centers- they’re the sort of places that people are air-lifted to. Atlanta’s got all that too. It only takes a couple of minutes to stop traffic for a helo to land. They don’t call it out often but when seconds count they don’t hesitate. It would seem we have more hospitals too. I count seven within twenty minutes of my home. But I pretty centrally located. Outside the Perimeter they’re a little less dense. ---
**Author:** ![Lord\_Feldon](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/lord_feldon/32/341_2.png) [@Lord\_Feldon](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Lord_Feldon)\ **Post date:** [October 5, 2013, 2:48am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/the-nyc-biker-gang-beat-down/670236/86 "2013-10-05T02:48:08Z")
> [@Glazer](#): > > It would seem we have more hospitals too. I count seven within twenty minutes of my home. But I pretty centrally located. Outside the Perimeter they’re a little less dense. New York City appears to have [at least 60.](http://hospitals.nyhealth.gov/browse_search.php?rt=R_NY+Metro+-+New+York+City&form=REGION) This is just in the city itself. [15 of them](http://www.health.ny.gov/professionals/ems/trauma2.htm) are trauma centers. ---
**Author:** ![DragonAsh](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/d/db5fbb/32.png) [@DragonAsh](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/DragonAsh)\ **Post date:** [October 5, 2013, 12:42pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/the-nyc-biker-gang-beat-down/670236/87 "2013-10-05T12:42:25Z")
I can not think of any scenario where adding a gun to the mix improved the situation for anyone involved. If the driver of the SUV had a gun and had drawn it I guarantee we’d be talking about a bunch of dead motorcycles and a dead family of three. Surround my car and threaten my family? Yeah, you’re getting run over. Tough shit. ---
**Author:** ![johnpost](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/j/f17d59/32.png) [@johnpost](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/johnpost)\ **Post date:** [October 5, 2013, 2:24pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/the-nyc-biker-gang-beat-down/670236/88 "2013-10-05T14:24:44Z")
> [@nearwildheaven](#): > > CNN is saying right now that an undercover officer was part of the group. This may explain why the police didn’t intervene as many of us think they should have. > > :dubious: 😕 seems he was unknown for days [http://news.yahoo.com/undercover-nypd-cop-watched-suv-driver-beaten-222926241--abc-news-topstories.html](http://news.yahoo.com/undercover-nypd-cop-watched-suv-driver-beaten-222926241--abc-news-topstories.html) ---
**Author:** ![enipla](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/e/54ee81/32.png) [@enipla](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/enipla)\ **Post date:** [October 5, 2013, 2:53pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/the-nyc-biker-gang-beat-down/670236/89 "2013-10-05T14:53:39Z")
> [@johnpost](#): > > seems he was unknown for days > > [http://news.yahoo.com/undercover-nypd-cop-watched-suv-driver-beaten-222926241--abc-news-topstories.html](http://news.yahoo.com/undercover-nypd-cop-watched-suv-driver-beaten-222926241--abc-news-topstories.html) “The officer’s involvement is also the subject of an Internal Affairs investigation, sources said” Hmm. He’s an undercover cop, but was this ride part of his investigation? Or was he just having ‘fun’. Anywho. Too bad all around, but the bikers are fully, 100% responsible for what happened. The bikers terrified him. Heh. I wonder if we could through some Homeland Security laws at these guys too with regard to terrorism. It would be useful for once. ---
**Author:** ![TokyoBayer](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/tokyobayer/32/13989_2.png) [@TokyoBayer](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/TokyoBayer)\ **Post date:** [October 5, 2013, 3:04pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/the-nyc-biker-gang-beat-down/670236/90 "2013-10-05T15:04:34Z")
> [@epbrown01](#): > > Mr. Lien apparently saw no reason a bunch of civilians should be allowed to block a public road and drove around the motorcycles, knocking one over. This is why they were chasing him when the video starts, and why for a lot of the video you see nothing on the road but him and the bikes. Do you have a cite for that? According to [the Times](http://www.nytimes.com/2013/10/05/nyregion/injured-biker-was-playing-peacemaker-when-suv-hit-him-lawyer-says.html?hp&_r=0), it was a brake check which precipitated the incident. > [@](#): > > So far, one motorcyclist, Christopher Cruz, 28, has been arraigned on charges of unlawful imprisonment and reckless driving. He was believed to have slowed his motorcycle directly in front of the Range Rover, which “restrained” those inside the vehicle, according to the criminal complaint against him. It was at that point that Mr. Lien hit Mr. Cruz’s motorcycle, precipitating the initial standoff. ---
**Author:** ![enipla](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/e/54ee81/32.png) [@enipla](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/enipla)\ **Post date:** [October 5, 2013, 3:24pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/the-nyc-biker-gang-beat-down/670236/91 "2013-10-05T15:24:27Z")
> [@](#): > > So far, one motorcyclist, Christopher Cruz, 28, has been arraigned on charges of unlawful imprisonment and **reckless driving** Sorry, but this just makes me laugh. Reckless driving. :rolleyes: Vehicular assault and public endangerment or something. But reckless driving? Hahahaha. Seriously, these guys don’t need the book thrown at them. They should have the whole library thrown at them. ---
**Author:** ![levdrakon](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/l/49beb7/32.png) [@levdrakon](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/levdrakon)\ **Post date:** [October 5, 2013, 4:00pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/the-nyc-biker-gang-beat-down/670236/92 "2013-10-05T16:00:09Z")
I read yesterday the undercover detective was off duty, and rides with a couple other “clubs” too. So do a couple of his cop buddies, and NYPD is looking into whether they were riding with this gang that day too. ---
**Author:** ![FXMastermind](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/fxmastermind/32/7289_2.png) [@FXMastermind](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/FXMastermind)\ **Post date:** [October 5, 2013, 4:09pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/the-nyc-biker-gang-beat-down/670236/93 "2013-10-05T16:09:28Z")
> [@newcomer](#): > > This is how they do it in Russia: > > [http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=4-uQuU0ydaY](http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=4-uQuU0ydaY) > > Action starts at 0:54. > > Best part at 1:40 😃 helpful tip with YT videos (and thanks for the video link) If you hit the “share video” link below the video, you can select when the video starts playing. the link below starts at 55 seconds in [![](https://img.youtube.com/vi/4-uQuU0ydaY/maxresdefault.jpg "Учитель на байке") ](https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=4-uQuU0ydaY&t=55s) and here is the “best part” [![](https://img.youtube.com/vi/4-uQuU0ydaY/maxresdefault.jpg "Учитель на байке") ](https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=4-uQuU0ydaY&t=1m45s) ---
**Author:** ![Airman\_Doors\_USAF](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/a/e36b37/32.png) [@Airman\_Doors\_USAF](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Airman_Doors_USAF)\ **Post date:** [October 5, 2013, 4:15pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/the-nyc-biker-gang-beat-down/670236/94 "2013-10-05T16:15:32Z")
> [@DragonAsh](#): > > If the driver of the SUV had a gun and had drawn it I guarantee we’d be talking about a bunch of dead motorcycles and a dead family of three. No, we’d probably be talking about the driver of the SUV being charged with gun possession in New York City and how he would be going to jail for a few years. ---
**Author:** ![Learjeff](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/l/94ad74/32.png) [@Learjeff](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Learjeff)\ **Post date:** [October 5, 2013, 5:33pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/the-nyc-biker-gang-beat-down/670236/95 "2013-10-05T17:33:42Z")
> [@nearwildheaven](#): > > The man who was run over will probably be paralyzed. Was he the brake-checker? That’s the impression I got, but I’m not sure. If so, well, Darwin at work. > [@nearwildheaven](#): > > Or more likely, dead mother and child too. That’s my guess too. I bet plenty of the bikers were armed, and would have riddled the vehicle with holes had they been shot at. > [@Ca3799](#): > > I am withholding opinion about what precipitated this incident. The suggestion the the SUV driver committed some offense prior to the 6 minute video will require some evidence. In my mind, it doesn’t affect much. It would explain how it happend, but wouldn’t exculpate anyone. What’s the point of a brake-check? They’re expecting you to slow down, I assume … is the goal to stop you completely? If so, I’d try to drive around, but probably fail and hit the guy. > [@newcomer](#): > > This is how they do it in Russia: > > [http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=4-uQuU0ydaY](http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=4-uQuU0ydaY) A case of two complete assholes. > [@DragonAsh](#): > > I can not think of any scenario where adding a gun to the mix improved the situation for anyone involved. > > If the driver of the SUV had a gun and had drawn it I guarantee we’d be talking about a bunch of dead motorcycles and a dead family of three. > > Surround my car and threaten my family? Yeah, you’re getting run over. Tough shit. > [@Airman\_Doors\_USAF](#): > > No, we’d probably be talking about the driver of the SUV being charged with gun possession in New York City and how he would be going to jail for a few years. So, you think the bikers would either be unarmed, or would just sit there and take the bullets without reacting? Sorry, but I don’t buy it one bit. They were obviously enraged. Evidence: smashing windows. That guy probably wasn’t armed, but I bet others were. I sympathize with the driver, and don’t blame him for driving ahead, running over the one bike we see in the news (haven’t watched all 6 minute of footage yet). He was trying to get the hell out of there, and not intentionally harming anyone – but if someone got harmed for blocking him, that’s their problem. But the folks above who’d love to see the highway littered with red marks: I sure hope that’s meaningless forum bravado. I understand the emotion behind it; I share it. But I shudder to think people would actually do it or recommend it. For one, it would kill folks who were just cycling with no evil intent (sure, folks playing where they shouldn’t, but death penalty?) For another, it would most likely end with everyone in the vehicle being killed. Ramping things up when surrounded by dozens of badasses is a truly stupid thing to do. Talk like that is a damned good argument against concealed carry permits. I’m not anti-gun, either. I support the right of people to have and use guns. I have owned guns myself. ---
**Author:** ![FXMastermind](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/fxmastermind/32/7289_2.png) [@FXMastermind](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/FXMastermind)\ **Post date:** [October 5, 2013, 5:49pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/the-nyc-biker-gang-beat-down/670236/96 "2013-10-05T17:49:15Z")
In America, you actually have the right to defend yourself. If a gang of criminals (and they are) is chasing a family, after attacking the vehicle, and they are continuing to attack, you have the right to defend yourself. Some people wouldn’t have sat there and let the window be smashed (knowing what comes next), and backed/circled out of the situation, probably causing more injury. I know I would. Panic, fear, concern for what is going to happen when thugs smash their way in, these are powerful motives to use a vehicle as a battering ram, a weapon, and if you are stupid and evil enough to try and trap a family with your bikes, slash the tires, smash at the windows, I will run you over. With out losing a bit of sleep over it. Sorry about your luck. ---
**Author:** ![Learjeff](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/l/94ad74/32.png) [@Learjeff](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Learjeff)\ **Post date:** [October 5, 2013, 5:51pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/the-nyc-biker-gang-beat-down/670236/97 "2013-10-05T17:51:46Z")
I see that the paralyzed rider wasn’t the brake-checker. ---
**Author:** ![epbrown01](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/e/7ba0ec/32.png) [@epbrown01](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/epbrown01)\ **Post date:** [October 5, 2013, 5:54pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/the-nyc-biker-gang-beat-down/670236/98 "2013-10-05T17:54:27Z")
> [@TokyoBayer](#): > > Do you have a cite for that? According to [the Times](http://www.nytimes.com/2013/10/05/nyregion/injured-biker-was-playing-peacemaker-when-suv-hit-him-lawyer-says.html?hp&_r=0), it was a brake check which precipitated the incident. You’ve seen the video, correct? The bikes are clearly already pursuing the SUV at the beginning of it, trying to get him to stop - it’s why Cruz pulled in front and braked. What incited that action? That he’d knocked over a bike earlier is the justification some of the group have given for the incident - i.e. “well _he_ started it!” Though they’ve pulled all the videos they could, many of the group are still active on motorcycle forums and boards trying to get “the real story” out. ---
**Author:** ![FXMastermind](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/fxmastermind/32/7289_2.png) [@FXMastermind](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/FXMastermind)\ **Post date:** [October 5, 2013, 5:56pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/the-nyc-biker-gang-beat-down/670236/99 "2013-10-05T17:56:40Z")
> [@Learjeff](#): > > I see that the paralyzed rider wasn’t the brake-checker. No, but he is a criminal. And to the dismay of a lot of the other bikers, taking part in a criminal activity, makes you guilty of the same crime you were part of. In other words, if you see a criminal act, and you encourage it, become part of it (by chasing a vehicle that is fleeing a criminal assault), you can be charged and convicted of the crime. Oh sure you thought it was justice, fun, vengeance, whatever. I don’t care. You are committing a crime. I hope they throw the book at them all. ---
**Author:** ![Airman\_Doors\_USAF](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/a/e36b37/32.png) [@Airman\_Doors\_USAF](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Airman_Doors_USAF)\ **Post date:** [October 5, 2013, 6:00pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/the-nyc-biker-gang-beat-down/670236/100 "2013-10-05T18:00:21Z")
> [@Learjeff](#): > > So, you think the bikers would either be unarmed, or would just sit there and take the bullets without reacting? > > Sorry, but I don’t buy it one bit. They were obviously enraged. Evidence: smashing windows. That guy probably wasn’t armed, but I bet others were. > > I sympathize with the driver, and don’t blame him for driving ahead, running over the one bike we see in the news (haven’t watched all 6 minute of footage yet). He was trying to get the hell out of there, and not intentionally harming anyone – but if someone got harmed for blocking him, that’s their problem. > > But the folks above who’d love to see the highway littered with red marks: I sure hope that’s meaningless forum bravado. I understand the emotion behind it; I share it. But I shudder to think people would actually do it or recommend it. For one, it would kill folks who were just cycling with no evil intent (sure, folks playing where they shouldn’t, but death penalty?) For another, it would most likely end with everyone in the vehicle being killed. Ramping things up when surrounded by dozens of badasses is a truly stupid thing to do. Talk like that is a damned good argument against concealed carry permits. > > I’m not anti-gun, either. I support the right of people to have and use guns. I have owned guns myself. Blahblahblah. That was a whole lot of nothing for what I said. I didn’t make any value judgments, I didn’t say anything about right or wrong, I didn’t recommend any course of action. I simply said that we would be talking about how the guy who was attacked would be facing jail time if he pulled a gun. Which he would. But since you wasted so much time writing up a response, I’ll follow up. No, I don’t think the bikers were armed. First, when dressed properly, there’s no place to put a gun. Second, they were on motorcycles, which means that there is no easy way to conceal a gun. Third, it is illegal to carry a concealed weapon in NYC and the aforementioned circumstances would make it a dead giveaway. Fourth, they knew it was being taped, and the existence of a video would easily convict the shooter. Last, they went nuts on this guy, and you expect me to believe that one of them wouldn’t have pulled a gun on him? They beat the piss out of him and his car, why stop there? But none of that is of any consequence because nobody pulled a gun. My comment on how the victim would have been facing jail time had he had and used a gun was all I intended to say and it stood alone until this mighty overreaction. [Previous page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/the-nyc-biker-gang-beat-down/670236.md?page=4) [Next page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/the-nyc-biker-gang-beat-down/670236.md?page=6)