# The NYC biker gang beat down **URL:** \ **Category:** Miscellaneous and Personal Stuff I Must Share\ **Created:** [October 3, 2013, 1:14am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/the-nyc-biker-gang-beat-down/670236 "2013-10-03T01:14:29Z")\ **Posts on this page:** 20\ **Page:** 6
**Author:** ![FXMastermind](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/fxmastermind/32/7289_2.png) [@FXMastermind](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/FXMastermind)\ **Post date:** [October 5, 2013, 6:00pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/the-nyc-biker-gang-beat-down/670236/101 "2013-10-05T18:00:32Z")
> [@epbrown01](#): > > You’ve seen the video, correct? The bikes are clearly already pursuing the SUV at the beginning of it, trying to get him to stop - it’s why Cruz pulled in front and braked. What incited that action? Wrong. That isn’t what you is in the video. You can tell this because the riders, including the cameraman simply pass by the vehicle, at a good clip. The one rider who started it was the one trying to stop an American family from driving down a highway. Also, the behavior they were engaged in is a known tactic for gangs to stop traffic so they can own the road. they did it to all traffic, which is why we see no other traffic there, or ahead of the gang. You can try and justify their activities (and the gang certainly is), but you will fail. ---
**Author:** ![epbrown01](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/e/7ba0ec/32.png) [@epbrown01](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/epbrown01)\ **Post date:** [October 5, 2013, 6:23pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/the-nyc-biker-gang-beat-down/670236/102 "2013-10-05T18:23:48Z")
> [@FXMastermind](#): > > Wrong. That isn’t what you is in the video. You can tell this because the riders, including the cameraman simply pass by the vehicle, at a good clip. The one rider who started it was the one trying to stop an American family from driving down a highway. Also, the behavior they were engaged in is a known tactic for gangs to stop traffic so they can own the road. they did it to all traffic, which is why we see no other traffic there, or ahead of the gang. > > You can try and justify their activities (and the gang certainly is), but you will fail. You seem unclear on something - I’m agreeing with you. I don’t see any of the gang’s antics as justified. All I’m saying is their issues with Mr. Lien started sooner than the video footage shows. ---
**Author:** ![Airman\_Doors\_USAF](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/a/e36b37/32.png) [@Airman\_Doors\_USAF](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Airman_Doors_USAF)\ **Post date:** [October 5, 2013, 6:29pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/the-nyc-biker-gang-beat-down/670236/103 "2013-10-05T18:29:55Z")
> [@epbrown01](#): > > You seem unclear on something - I’m agreeing with you. I don’t see any of the gang’s antics as justified. All I’m saying is their issues with Mr. Lien started sooner than the video footage shows. I’m sure it did, probably the first time they tried to yank his chain and make him pull over or get off the highway. The previous alleged incident was almost certainly precipitated by the bikers also, if it even happened. To say otherwise requires us to believe that a guy with his family in his very expensive SUV went after a biker minding his own business along with the dozens of others who to that point had been operating their bikes in a perfectly legal manner. ---
**Author:** ![levdrakon](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/l/49beb7/32.png) [@levdrakon](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/levdrakon)\ **Post date:** [October 5, 2013, 6:55pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/the-nyc-biker-gang-beat-down/670236/104 "2013-10-05T18:55:00Z")
> [@Learjeff](#): > > But the folks above who’d love to see the highway littered with red marks: I sure hope that’s meaningless forum bravado. I understand the emotion behind it; I share it. But I shudder to think people would actually do it or recommend it. For one, it would kill folks who were just cycling with no evil intent (sure, folks playing where they shouldn’t, but death penalty?) For another, it would most likely end with everyone in the vehicle being killed. Ramping things up when surrounded by dozens of badasses is a truly stupid thing to do. Talk like that is a damned good argument against concealed carry permits. I said if a biker gang were chasing me Mad Max style there’d be stains, and I stand by that. It’s not like I’d be randomly hitting bikers not involved; I’d be playing bumper car with the bikers who are actually chasing me, surrounding me, and trying to do me harm. I wouldn’t feel an ounce of guilt. Well, knowing me, I would, but I’d get over it. What would probably happen is I take out one biker and the rest immediately fall back when they realize I’m willing to kill them. I guess they could start shooting, but most people shoot right-handed so they’d have to take their hand off the throttle. I don’t know, do motorcyclists shoot guns at speed very often? ---
**Author:** ![FXMastermind](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/fxmastermind/32/7289_2.png) [@FXMastermind](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/FXMastermind)\ **Post date:** [October 5, 2013, 7:28pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/the-nyc-biker-gang-beat-down/670236/105 "2013-10-05T19:28:17Z")
> [@epbrown01](#): > > All I’m saying is their issues with Mr. Lien started sooner than the video footage shows. Utter nonsense. First, the bikers in the footage do not slow down and surround the SUV, in fact most had passed it (excluding the large group stuck behind the initial accident). Second, only one biker, the criminal that caused the accident, is even paying much attention to the SUV. Third, with over an hour of footage from before the incident, it’s impossible to believe the jerk who put the footage online would exclude the “original incident” that led to their assumed pursuit. Of course he cut the footage off before the assault, claiming the battery ran out. And tried to remove the footage from YouTube. Having watched all the previous footage, I stand firm that the bikers initiated it all, and the footage shows the entire sequence. The motor psychos are liars. ---
**Author:** ![Muffin](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/muffin/32/4341_2.png) [@Muffin](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Muffin)\ **Post date:** [October 5, 2013, 8:44pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/the-nyc-biker-gang-beat-down/670236/106 "2013-10-05T20:44:09Z")
> [@aceplace57](#): > > That poor guy and his family. Just going out for a Sunday drive on his wedding anniversary. A former Attorney General of Ontario was out for a drive with his wife following their anniversary dinner. He accidentally bumped a stunting bicyclist, who then crawled on his vehicle to get at him. The former AG accelerated and smeared the asshole off on a hydrant, killing him. The AG was arrested, but after a thorough investigation, the charges were dropped. Moral of the story: stay inside with your helmet on for your anniversary. ---
**Author:** ![Muffin](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/muffin/32/4341_2.png) [@Muffin](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Muffin)\ **Post date:** [October 5, 2013, 8:49pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/the-nyc-biker-gang-beat-down/670236/107 "2013-10-05T20:49:12Z")
I pity the poor suv driver. First terrorized, then beaten, then falsely accused by his persecutors, and now expecting to face a civil action. Life isn’t fair sometimes. I have no sympathy for the inured criminal, nor his fellow gang members. ---
**Author:** ![epbrown01](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/e/7ba0ec/32.png) [@epbrown01](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/epbrown01)\ **Post date:** [October 5, 2013, 11:10pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/the-nyc-biker-gang-beat-down/670236/108 "2013-10-05T23:10:48Z")
> [@Airman\_Doors\_USAF](#): > > I’m sure it did, probably the first time they tried to yank his chain and make him pull over or get off the highway. The previous alleged incident was almost certainly precipitated by the bikers also, if it even happened. Am I not writing in English or have comprehension levels fallen sharply? The alleged incident that led to the confrontation on the road with Mr. Cruz was not “almost certainly” precipitated by the bikers - it was _definitely_ precipitated by them. Before the media blow-up, members of Hollywood Stuntz openly admitted they set up a roadblock on an on-ramp, and started chasing Mr. Lien when he went around it, knocking over someone’s bike. They misguidely feel everything is his fault for not respecting their (non-existent) authority. You guys are welcome to claim it didn’t happen, no skin off my nose. I believe it because 1) well, it’s exactly the sort of dumb-ass thing they’d do based on everything else, 2) it’s in character for them to think they can just block off a section of highway for their own use and everyone’s supposed to think it’s fine. and 3) similar groups of squidiots have done the same thing in FL and CA. ---
**Author:** ![Airman\_Doors\_USAF](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/a/e36b37/32.png) [@Airman\_Doors\_USAF](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Airman_Doors_USAF)\ **Post date:** [October 5, 2013, 11:30pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/the-nyc-biker-gang-beat-down/670236/109 "2013-10-05T23:30:35Z")
> [@epbrown01](#): > > Am I not writing in English or have comprehension levels fallen sharply? You’re not writing in English. Your posts look like rationalizations. Until now it was unclear whether or not you were backing the bikers or the victim. ---
**Author:** ![Maeglin](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/m/8baadc/32.png) [@Maeglin](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Maeglin)\ **Post date:** [October 6, 2013, 12:13am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/the-nyc-biker-gang-beat-down/670236/110 "2013-10-06T00:13:10Z")
I live up in the neighborhood where this incident occurred. It’s been crazy around here lately. The police have installed cameras on the main east-west drag and in several large housing projects. This isn’t a completely random event; bike gangs passing through the neighborhood has been a significant cause of local tensions that our police claim to be powerless to stop. This incident is just boiling the kettle. The bikers have been a persistent nuisance. They are disruptive, dangerous, and they generally make things worse for residents when they gather up here. But they typically stop just short of doing anything illegal, save operating without licenses. This is how the police usually get them. There have been waves of confiscations, sometimes up to 30 or 40 at a time. But this doesn’t really seem to impede them in the long term. As a community, we really don’t know what to do. None of this has any bearing on how the responsibility for this incident is allocated. I just thought it might help to give a wider context for it. It is not just some lamentable explosion; it’s been building up for some time. ---
**Author:** ![Maeglin](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/m/8baadc/32.png) [@Maeglin](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Maeglin)\ **Post date:** [October 6, 2013, 12:24am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/the-nyc-biker-gang-beat-down/670236/111 "2013-10-06T00:24:20Z")
You don’t have to take my word for it. [Here](http://www.dnainfo.com/new-york/20130814/inwood/cops-confiscate-dozens-of-illegal-motorcycles-inwood) is a piece from August about the last mass confiscation that I can remember. ---
**Author:** ![Fiveyearlurker](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/f/da6949/32.png) [@Fiveyearlurker](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Fiveyearlurker)\ **Post date:** [October 6, 2013, 12:48am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/the-nyc-biker-gang-beat-down/670236/112 "2013-10-06T00:48:12Z")
> [@epbrown01](#): > > You’ve seen the video, correct? The bikes are clearly already pursuing the SUV at the beginning of it, trying to get him to stop - it’s why Cruz pulled in front and braked. What incited that action? > > That he’d knocked over a bike earlier is the justification some of the group have given for the incident - i.e. “well _he_ started it!” Though they’ve pulled all the videos they could, many of the group are still active on motorcycle forums and boards trying to get “the real story” out. They are pursuing the SUV because they are trying to block off the entire highway to do stunts on the highway. They do it all the time, and you can see motorcycles blocking the on ramps; that’s why there are no other cars on the road. The break checker was attempting to get the SUV to pull to the side of the road, so that his buddies would have an entirely cleared off highway to do wheelies. That is why they are pursuing the SUV when the video opens. Maybe this is a regional thing, but New Yorkers have been complaining about these guys for years. ---
**Author:** ![Muffin](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/muffin/32/4341_2.png) [@Muffin](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Muffin)\ **Post date:** [October 6, 2013, 12:50am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/the-nyc-biker-gang-beat-down/670236/113 "2013-10-06T00:50:27Z")
Why not free up some funds for a biker-gang bounty. $100 per pelt. That[freeze frame from the final vid](http://www.heavy.com/news/2013/10/hollywood-stuntz-road-rage-viral-video/)of the Range Rover climbing over the biker and his bike makes for a good advertisement for the brand. ---
**Author:** ![Muffin](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/muffin/32/4341_2.png) [@Muffin](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Muffin)\ **Post date:** [October 6, 2013, 1:13am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/the-nyc-biker-gang-beat-down/670236/114 "2013-10-06T01:13:07Z")
What’s that phrase, “Keepin’ it real.” Meezee just met with reality in the form of a father, mother and child. [Vids of the injured biker doing his thing.](http://www.liveleak.com/view?i=2e2_1380707420) ---
**Author:** ![Maeglin](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/m/8baadc/32.png) [@Maeglin](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Maeglin)\ **Post date:** [October 6, 2013, 2:27am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/the-nyc-biker-gang-beat-down/670236/115 "2013-10-06T02:27:25Z")
As an aside, there is no way anyone from around here would have assumed that the bikers were armed. They are on thin ice already as it is and, since this is NYC, can be subject to warrantless searches. These guys are stupid, but not _that_ stupid. ---
**Author:** ![TokyoBayer](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/tokyobayer/32/13989_2.png) [@TokyoBayer](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/TokyoBayer)\ **Post date:** [October 6, 2013, 2:52am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/the-nyc-biker-gang-beat-down/670236/116 "2013-10-06T02:52:24Z")
> [@epbrown01](#): > > Am I not writing in English or have comprehension levels fallen sharply? The alleged incident that led to the confrontation on the road with Mr. Cruz was not “almost certainly” precipitated by the bikers - it was _definitely_ precipitated by them. Before the media blow-up, members of Hollywood Stuntz openly admitted they set up a roadblock on an on-ramp, and started chasing Mr. Lien when he went around it, knocking over someone’s bike. They misguidely feel everything is his fault for not respecting their (non-existent) authority. > > You guys are welcome to claim it didn’t happen, no skin off my nose. I believe it because 1) well, it’s exactly the sort of dumb-ass thing they’d do based on everything else, 2) it’s in character for them to think they can just block off a section of highway for their own use and everyone’s supposed to think it’s fine. and 3) similar groups of squidiots have done the same thing in FL and CA. I don’t have a problem with English. I can comprehend well-written sentences. If everyone is misunderstanding you, perhaps the fault is not with the reader. You are seemingly unquestioningly accepting the bikers’ assertion that Mr. Lien knocked over a bike on the onramp. This assertion is what I am challenging. The \*New York Times \*piece states that (and I’m going to quote it again) > [@](#): > > So far, one motorcyclist, Christopher Cruz, 28, has been arraigned on charges of unlawful imprisonment and reckless driving. He was believed to have slowed his motorcycle directly in front of the Range Rover, which “restrained” those inside the vehicle, according to the criminal complaint against him. It was at that point that Mr. Lien hit Mr. Cruz’s motorcycle, precipitating the initial standoff. It does not state that Cruz was brake checking Mr. Lien in retaliation for the alleged occurrence. The _Times_ is not your Mom and Pop local paper. It’s, well, the _Times_ and while they are not perfect, one would assume that had this been a continuation of such an action, it would have been noted. Yes, the bikers were harassing Mr. Lien from before the video started, which I did watch. As others have said, it is very likely that they wanted him off the highway. Brake checking him could every well been part of those efforts. He could very well have pulled past them on a checkpoint. I’m asking for specifically for a credible source for this > [@](#): > > Mr. Lien apparently saw no reason a bunch of civilians should be allowed to block a public road and drove around the motorcycles, knocking one over. This is why they were chasing him when the video starts, and why for a lot of the video you see nothing on the road but him and the bikes. Is there a reliable source for your assertion that he knocked over a bike at that point? ---
**Author:** ![FXMastermind](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/fxmastermind/32/7289_2.png) [@FXMastermind](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/FXMastermind)\ **Post date:** [October 6, 2013, 4:14am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/the-nyc-biker-gang-beat-down/670236/117 "2013-10-06T04:14:41Z")
> [@Muffin](#): > > What’s that phrase, “Keepin’ it real.” Meezee just met with reality in the form of a father, mother and child. > > [Vids of the injured biker doing his thing.](http://www.liveleak.com/view?i=2e2_1380707420) The small sympathy I had for these thugs is evaporating quickly. ---
**Author:** ![Learjeff](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/l/94ad74/32.png) [@Learjeff](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Learjeff)\ **Post date:** [October 6, 2013, 4:35pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/the-nyc-biker-gang-beat-down/670236/118 "2013-10-06T16:35:36Z")
> [@FXMastermind](#): > > No, but he is a criminal. And to the dismay of a lot of the other bikers, taking part in a criminal activity, makes you guilty of the same crime you were part of. While I don’t think the “punishment” suits the crime, the fact is, when you take it outside the legal envelope, you’re taking responsibility for the consequences. I don’t think that he “got what he deserved”, but I think he’s responsible for his injury. > [@](#): > > That was a whole lot of nothing for what I said. I didn’t make any value judgments, I didn’t say anything about right or wrong, I didn’t recommend any course of action. I simply said that we would be talking about how the guy who was attacked would be facing jail time if he pulled a gun. Which he would. I apologize if my reply included you as one of those recommending violence. It wasn’t my intent. > [@](#): > > No, I don’t think the bikers were armed. First, when dressed properly, there’s no place to put a gun. Second, they were on motorcycles, which means that there is no easy way to conceal a gun. I bet you’re wrong about that, but I admit I don’t have any firsthand knowledge in the matter. > [@](#): > > Third, it is illegal to carry a concealed weapon in NYC and the aforementioned circumstances would make it a dead giveaway. Yeah, their regard for NYC laws is obvious. > [@](#): > > Fourth, they knew it was being taped, and the existence of a video would easily convict the shooter. They clearly weren’t moderating their behavior based on the presence of cameras. > [@](#): > > Last, they went nuts on this guy, and you expect me to believe that one of them wouldn’t have pulled a gun on him? They beat the piss out of him and his car, why stop there? Because they didn’t need to go any further. If they had been fired on, that would have changed the situation dramatically. > [@](#): > > But none of that is of any consequence because nobody pulled a gun. Right, thank goodness! > [@](#): > > My comment on how the victim would have been facing jail time had he had and used a gun was all I intended to say My point was that he’d be facing a funeral. > [@](#): > > and it stood alone until this mighty overreaction. Whose overreaction? Hopefully this was just a misunderstanding. Since you weren’t advocating violence, I wouldn’t expect you to take statements about advocating violence as directed at you. They wouldn’t follow. ---
**Author:** ![FXMastermind](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/fxmastermind/32/7289_2.png) [@FXMastermind](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/FXMastermind)\ **Post date:** [October 6, 2013, 4:39pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/the-nyc-biker-gang-beat-down/670236/119 "2013-10-06T16:39:50Z")
> [@Learjeff](#): > > While I don’t think the “punishment” suits the crime, the fact is, when you take it outside the legal envelope, you’re taking responsibility for the consequences. I don’t think that he “got what he deserved”, but I think he’s responsible for his injury. Having watched all the videos of the day, and videos from previous “rides”, being run over is actually not that bad of a consequence of your actions. There is no doubt something like this was going to happen eventually. If you don’t have a licence to drive, are riding an illegal bike, breaking laws and taking risks, running from the police and threatening other people, you have to be dumber than a rock to act surprised when somebody gets hurt. ---
**Author:** ![GusNSpot](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/gusnspot/32/436_2.png) [@GusNSpot](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/GusNSpot)\ **Post date:** [October 6, 2013, 6:42pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/the-nyc-biker-gang-beat-down/670236/120 "2013-10-06T18:42:42Z")
Have you all seen this video? [https://www.facebook.com/video/embed?video\_id=10201210860167803](https://www.facebook.com/video/embed?video_id=10201210860167803) [Previous page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/the-nyc-biker-gang-beat-down/670236.md?page=5) [Next page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/the-nyc-biker-gang-beat-down/670236.md?page=7)