# The Obama Administration Dismal Human Rights Policies **URL:** \ **Category:** Great Debates\ **Created:** [October 6, 2009, 8:41pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/the-obama-administration-dismal-human-rights-policies/512852 "2009-10-06T20:41:55Z")\ **Posts on this page:** 20\ **Page:** 3
**Author:** ![Argent\_Towers](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/a/e8c25b/32.png) [@Argent\_Towers](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Argent_Towers)\ **Post date:** [October 7, 2009, 3:27am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/the-obama-administration-dismal-human-rights-policies/512852/41 "2009-10-07T03:27:03Z")
I’m not a “conservative.” I wouldn’t say I’m a liberal either. And I’m certainly not a libertarian. I don’t have political views that fit into one category. I just think that the Dalai Lama is incredibly overrated and that he has accomplished very little despite his bully pulpit; I am _extremely_ skeptical of Buddhism as a philosophy/religion and cause, as I am of all organized religions. ---
**Author:** ![Zoe](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/z/a4c791/32.png) [@Zoe](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Zoe)\ **Post date:** [October 7, 2009, 4:59am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/the-obama-administration-dismal-human-rights-policies/512852/42 "2009-10-07T04:59:56Z")
> [@](#): > > **Argent Towers** : Why do people - especially non-Buddhists - revere this man? He’s a fraud. Why did you go to hear him speak? Is it possible that you think he is a fraud because he doesn’t believe the things that you think he should believe – not because he claims to be something he is not? **Sam Stone** , do you have a history here at the Straight Dope of condemning the detention of human beings at Guantanamo without trial? Did you protest the use of the concocted title of “enemy combatants” as a designation for those held at Guantanamo? Did you protest the use of torture at Guantanamo? If so, I will take your concerns seriously now. If not, I will assume that you are well intentioned, but easily persuaded by blogs that you read that are anti-Obama and terribly nitpicky. I was disappointed that Obama postponed the meeting with the Dalai Lama. By tradition, the President of the United States always meets with him on his visits to the United States. But his visits are not that infrequent. His brother resides here. The Dalai Lama is a peaceful man and I would think that he would hope that some good would come from the way things are. Wouldn’t he want more Western influence in China? > [@](#): > > **Argent Towers** : Yasser Arafat also won the Nobel Peace Prize. No one has ever thought of that response before. That trumps everyone who has won the Peace Prize forever and ever, right? BTW, I think the Dalai Lama is wrong about some things too. But I still think he is a holy man. ---
**Author:** ![Xan](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/x/ac8455/32.png) [@Xan](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Xan)\ **Post date:** [October 7, 2009, 5:46am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/the-obama-administration-dismal-human-rights-policies/512852/43 "2009-10-07T05:46:45Z")
> [@Zoe](#): > > Why did you go to hear him speak? > > Is it possible that you think he is a fraud because he doesn’t believe the things that you think he should believe – not because he claims to be something he is not? > > **Sam Stone** , do you have a history here at the Straight Dope of condemning the detention of human beings at Guantanamo without trial? Did you protest the use of the concocted title of “enemy combatants” as a designation for those held at Guantanamo? Did you protest the use of torture at Guantanamo? > > If so, I will take your concerns seriously now. If not, I will assume that you are well intentioned, but easily persuaded by blogs that you read that are anti-Obama and terribly nitpicky. > > I was disappointed that Obama postponed the meeting with the Dalai Lama. By tradition, the President of the United States always meets with him on his visits to the United States. But his visits are not that infrequent. His brother resides here. The Dalai Lama is a peaceful man and I would think that he would hope that some good would come from the way things are. Wouldn’t he want more Western influence in China? > > No one has ever thought of that response before. That trumps everyone who has won the Peace Prize forever and ever, right? > > BTW, I think the Dalai Lama is wrong about some things too. But I still think he is a holy man. [He’s only for nonviolence when it’s convenient](http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/14th_Dalai_Lama#CIA_backing) ---
**Author:** ![Argent\_Towers](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/a/e8c25b/32.png) [@Argent\_Towers](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Argent_Towers)\ **Post date:** [October 7, 2009, 5:49am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/the-obama-administration-dismal-human-rights-policies/512852/44 "2009-10-07T05:49:38Z")
He is a holy man, insomuch as he is the head of a religion the same way the Pope is. I wouldn’t deny that. I just think he’s overrated as a figure of wisdom and of international significance. He’s basically like a mascot that people who want to appear spiritual can latch onto; he’s famous for being famous. He was born into his position; he did not do anything to achieve it. He was designated the Dalai Lama as a child through rituals of religious superstition. I don’t wish ill on the man, I’m just not impressed by him. ---
**Author:** ![Miller](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/miller/32/481_2.png) [@Miller](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Miller)\ **Post date:** [October 7, 2009, 6:03am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/the-obama-administration-dismal-human-rights-policies/512852/45 "2009-10-07T06:03:11Z")
> [@Hamlet](#): > > You know, I never thought I’d see someone who actively dislikes the Dalai Lama. You mean, besides the government of China? Oh, and also [Elton John.](http://boards.straightdope.com/sdmb/showthread.php?t=94877) ---
**Author:** ![mswas](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/m/e99b99/32.png) [@mswas](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/mswas)\ **Post date:** [October 7, 2009, 6:18am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/the-obama-administration-dismal-human-rights-policies/512852/46 "2009-10-07T06:18:15Z")
> [@Sam\_Stone](#): > > In the last few days, there have been a few very discouraging events that have me worried about the Obama administration’s commitment to various traditional American human rights policies. > > First, Obama has [refused to meet with the Dalai Lama](http://timesofindia.indiatimes.com/news/world/us/Obama-pilloried-over-ducking-Dalai-Lama-to-appease-China/articleshow/5092820.cms). This is obviously some sort of concession to the Chinese. What kind of signal does this send to the people of Tibet, and what does this say about the U.S. commitment to Tibet in the eyes of the Chinese government? Why should he meet with a religious leader about internal Chinese matters? > [@](#): > > Next, the Obama Administration has [Cut All Funding to the Iranian Human Rights Documentation Center](http://www.boston.com/news/nation/articles/2009/10/06/us_cutoff_of_funding_to_iran_human_rights_cause_signals_shift/?page=1). The IHRDC is a state department organization that tracks human rights abuses in Iran. The Obama administration is shutting it down. The likely reason for this is that the U.S. is looking to cut a deal with Iran, and documentation of human rights abuses would be embarrassing. Don’t look, don’t tell. Heh, as opposed to Saudi Arabia eh? > [@](#): > > Next, the [FTC is going to regulate social media on the internet](http://www.buzzmachine.com/2009/10/05/ftc-regulates-our-speech/). Yes, the government plans to watch places like the SDMB, facebook, twitter, blogs, and other elements of the social space on the internet and go after people who are shilling for companies. But as Jeff Jarvis says: This is the sort of thing I can get worked up about but I’d need to know more. So far most of the issues I see around this kind of stuff is the idea that the internet is some sort of holy ground that the government has no place in. It’s based on a nonsense premise, but depending on how it’s implemented I could get upset, possibly, maybe. The internet IS a medium, and you ARE producing media when you say something on the net. This is an empirical fact, it is by definition, it’s not a matter of opinion. > [@](#): > > Finally, the U.S. is trying to ‘reach out’ to the Muslim world, and as part of this, it has joined the Islamically-controlled Human Rights Council, a truly Orwellian-named group. Fine you say, they plan to work from within to reform it and help promote rights. So the Iranian Human Rights Documentation Center ISN’T Orwellian? I fail to see why one is good and why another isn’t. If the US is on any council, it won’t be Islamic controlled anymore, it will be American controlled or we’ll simply ignore its edicts. > [@](#): > > But no, instead the Obama administration appears to be willing to throw U.S. constitutional principles under the bus instead. It has authored a joint ‘free speech’ resolution with that bastion of freedom, Egypt. And as usual, a ‘freedom’ resolution from the HRC is really meant to restrict freedom. Read this editorial in [The New Republic](http://www.tnr.com/blog/the-spine/us-egypt-co-sponsor-resolution-freedom-opinion-and-expression-what-the-hell-going-her?page=0,1), which quotes a few choice paragraphs: Oh yay, he said, ‘under the bus’. It’s amazing there’s any room under that bus anymore no? I really hate these resolutions that make it not ok to criticize Islam. But at the same time, that’s what the Supreme Court is for. > [@](#): > > This is the kind of language Canada’s Human Rights Tribunals operate under. We’re in the process of shutting them down because they have been a gross violator of civil rights in Canada. And none of this would pass the 1st Amendment test in the U.S. So what the hell? Yeah well you’re all a bunch of Communists. The first amendment is tested by the supreme court. > [@](#): > > Are any of this board’s civil libertarians bothered by any of this? LOL, are they? ---
**Author:** ![mswas](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/m/e99b99/32.png) [@mswas](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/mswas)\ **Post date:** [October 7, 2009, 6:23am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/the-obama-administration-dismal-human-rights-policies/512852/47 "2009-10-07T06:23:18Z")
> [@Sam\_Stone](#): > > I was also happy to see a more **realistic** foreign policy stance - he shored up the soldiers in Afghanistan and re-affirmed his commitment to **winning there** , The bolded bits are mutually exclusive. Turning a country with a 90% illiteracy rate into a modern Democracy is a fool’s errand. It is NOT realistic foreign policy. ---
**Author:** ![Miller](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/miller/32/481_2.png) [@Miller](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Miller)\ **Post date:** [October 7, 2009, 6:29am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/the-obama-administration-dismal-human-rights-policies/512852/48 "2009-10-07T06:29:06Z")
More generally on the topic of what Obama’s refusal to meet with the Dalai Lama means. If we take it as read that this refusal signifies that America is willing to overlook human rights abuses in order to maintain a favorable relationship with the Chinese government, how, exactly, will this be distinguishable from how we have treated with China for the past thirty years? ---
**Author:** ![Hellestal](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/h/3ab097/32.png) [@Hellestal](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Hellestal)\ **Post date:** [October 7, 2009, 8:09am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/the-obama-administration-dismal-human-rights-policies/512852/49 "2009-10-07T08:09:19Z")
> [@Snowboarder\_Bo](#): > > I’m more bothered by the fact that a Canadian keeps bitching about stuff that’s going on in the US. Please. He’s got every right to complain as long as he keeps within the rules of the forum, which he does. Being Canadian has nothing to do with anything. We’re incredibly closely related countries. What 'Merka does, Canadia must pay attention to. This is a fucking retarded thread for entirely different reasons. ---
**Author:** ![Alessan](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/alessan/32/465_2.png) [@Alessan](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Alessan)\ **Post date:** [October 7, 2009, 8:10am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/the-obama-administration-dismal-human-rights-policies/512852/50 "2009-10-07T08:10:14Z")
> [@Diogenes\_the\_Cynic](#): > > It’s good that Israel is worried. I think Iran having a nuclear check on Israel is a _good_ thing. See, I don’t get this. It’s not as if we’ve spent the last 40 years nuking - or even threatening to nuke - our neighbors. You want to place checks on weapons we’re unwilling to use? You’re a smart guy, **Dio**. Why on earth do you believe that “checking” Israel will benefit _anyone_? The only think it’ll do is reinforce our bunker mentality, making us less likely to make any sort of compromises on our security. Push us, and we push back. Make us feel safe and accepted, and we’ll give you whatever you want. It worked for Egypt, and it worked for Jordan. Why don’t people understand that the \*more \*secure Israel feels, the \*better \*it’ll be for the Palestinians? ---
**Author:** ![Alessan](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/alessan/32/465_2.png) [@Alessan](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Alessan)\ **Post date:** [October 7, 2009, 8:16am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/the-obama-administration-dismal-human-rights-policies/512852/51 "2009-10-07T08:16:44Z")
Besides, nuclear threats, being one-off things, are decidedly limited. After all, MOD didn’t stop the U.S. and the U.S.S.R from invading other countries. The only thing an Iranian nuke can prevent is an Israeli attack on Iran; the only conceivable reason Israel could have to attack Iran is that it’s developing nukes. See the logical flaw here? ---
**Author:** ![Snowboarder\_Bo](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/snowboarder_bo/32/229_2.png) [@Snowboarder\_Bo](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Snowboarder_Bo)\ **Post date:** [October 7, 2009, 8:50am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/the-obama-administration-dismal-human-rights-policies/512852/52 "2009-10-07T08:50:44Z")
> [@C3](#): > > Saying that Obama “refuses to meet with the Dalai Lama” is inaccurate. From the article linked in the OP, he is planning to meet with the DL after his trip to Beijing: Posting links that don’t say what **Sam** claims them to say is nothing new. He does it often. ---
**Author:** ![PrettyVacant](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/p/49beb7/32.png) [@PrettyVacant](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/PrettyVacant)\ **Post date:** [October 7, 2009, 9:00am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/the-obama-administration-dismal-human-rights-policies/512852/53 "2009-10-07T09:00:31Z")
There’s really no point in digifying this nonsense with responses. ---
**Author:** ![Magiver](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/m/4491bb/32.png) [@Magiver](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Magiver)\ **Post date:** [October 7, 2009, 10:18am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/the-obama-administration-dismal-human-rights-policies/512852/54 "2009-10-07T10:18:34Z")
> [@John\_Mace](#): > > Dismal? That’s a bit of a stretch. > > As for the Dali Lama, is there some requirement that a US president meet with him? No, screw Tibet. China should crush them into dog food. ---
**Author:** ![Alessan](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/alessan/32/465_2.png) [@Alessan](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Alessan)\ **Post date:** [October 7, 2009, 10:40am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/the-obama-administration-dismal-human-rights-policies/512852/55 "2009-10-07T10:40:18Z")
> [@Magiver](#): > > No, screw Tibet. China should crush them into dog food. Yeah, who do they think they are - Palestinians? ---
**Author:** ![Shodan](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/s/9f8e36/32.png) [@Shodan](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Shodan)\ **Post date:** [October 7, 2009, 12:34pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/the-obama-administration-dismal-human-rights-policies/512852/56 "2009-10-07T12:34:46Z")
> [@Alessan](#): > > Why don’t people understand that the \*more \*secure Israel feels, the \*better \*it’ll be for the Palestinians? What makes you think anyone gives a shit about the Palestinians? They’re just a stick to beat up Israel. To be fair, it’s the same with Iran - if they ever drop the anti-US, anti-Israel stance, then and only then will their human rights record become relevant. And it will be terrible that they have nukes. > [@Snowboarder Bo](#): > > I’m more bothered by the fact that a Canadian keeps bitching about stuff that’s going on in the US. So the opinions of the rest of the world don’t matter? Good to know. Regards, Shodan ---
**Author:** ![Hamlet](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/hamlet/32/2818_2.png) [@Hamlet](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Hamlet)\ **Post date:** [October 7, 2009, 1:09pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/the-obama-administration-dismal-human-rights-policies/512852/57 "2009-10-07T13:09:42Z")
> [@Argent\_Towers](#): > > I just think that the Dalai Lama is incredibly overrated and that he has accomplished very little despite his bully pulpit; That’s not what you said, and not what you have steadfastly refused to defend with any actual evidence. You called him a sham, a huckster, and act as if all he has accomplished is having his picture taken. Those are completely unfounded, and highly stupid, assertions that you have no support for. But I guess since a bulk of his work has been helping the poor in Tibet, so they must not count. You made very ignorant statements, and I’m happy to see you backpedalling so furiously. > [@Argent Towers](#): > > I am _extremely_ skeptical of Buddhism as a philosophy/religion and cause, as I am of all organized religions. That’s fine. That’s also not what you said. ---
**Author:** ![ElvisL1ves](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/e/5daacb/32.png) [@ElvisL1ves](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/ElvisL1ves)\ **Post date:** [October 7, 2009, 1:31pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/the-obama-administration-dismal-human-rights-policies/512852/58 "2009-10-07T13:31:08Z")
> [@Hamlet](#): > > Does ignoring the entirety of the point to pick one nit work for you? A lawyer wrote _that_? ---
**Author:** ![Lightnin](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/lightnin/32/180_2.png) [@Lightnin](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Lightnin)\ **Post date:** [October 7, 2009, 1:37pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/the-obama-administration-dismal-human-rights-policies/512852/59 "2009-10-07T13:37:05Z")
> [@Shodan](#): > > So the opinions of the rest of the world don’t matter? Good to know. [QUOTE=Ghosts of Shodans Past] Of course the election is a popularity contest. But it only measures popularity in the US. “World opinion” doesn’t enter into it. [/QUOTE] Referring to Bush’s (lack of) popularity around the world: [QUOTE=Ghosts of Shodans Past] …a large proportion of the world’s population doesn’t have the moral sense of a poundcake. [/QUOTE] It seems to me that you kinda decided that a while ago. ---
**Author:** ![mswas](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/m/e99b99/32.png) [@mswas](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/mswas)\ **Post date:** [October 7, 2009, 3:44pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/the-obama-administration-dismal-human-rights-policies/512852/60 "2009-10-07T15:44:41Z")
> [@Alessan](#): > > See, I don’t get this. It’s not as if we’ve spent the last 40 years nuking - or even threatening to nuke - our neighbors. You want to place checks on weapons we’re unwilling to use? > > You’re a smart guy, **Dio**. Why on earth do you believe that “checking” Israel will benefit _anyone_? The only think it’ll do is reinforce our bunker mentality, making us less likely to make any sort of compromises on our security. Push us, and we push back. Make us feel safe and accepted, and we’ll give you whatever you want. It worked for Egypt, and it worked for Jordan. > > Why don’t people understand that the \*more \*secure Israel feels, the \*better \*it’ll be for the Palestinians? A lot of people rightly or wrongly view the expansion of settlements as an act of aggression. They don’t think Israel is serious about checking this expansion, and they don’t think Israel will give up land it has taken. I can understand this point of view, the settlement stuff is kind of shady. I do agree though that Israel is a strong partner that we can trust. [Previous page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/the-obama-administration-dismal-human-rights-policies/512852.md?page=2) [Next page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/the-obama-administration-dismal-human-rights-policies/512852.md?page=4)