# The "observer" and quantum theory ?

**URL:** <https://boards.straightdope.com/t/the-observer-and-quantum-theory/112678>\
**Category:** Factual Questions\
**Created:** [June 6, 2002, 2:44pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/the-observer-and-quantum-theory/112678 "2002-06-06T14:44:09Z")\
**Posts on this page:** 2\
**Page:** 2

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**Author:** ![Whack-a-Mole](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/whack-a-mole/32/141_2.png) [@Whack-a-Mole](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Whack-a-Mole)\
**Post date:** [June 12, 2002, 2:31pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/the-observer-and-quantum-theory/112678/21 "2002-06-12T14:31:36Z")

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> [@](#):
>
> \*Originally posted by Northern Piper \*  
> \*\*Some argue that because quantum states only become determinate through observation, it is the fact of observation by conscious beings that makes the Universe exist. (My summary - please don’t hurt me… :eek: ) \*\*

I won’t hurt you but I have a real problem with this. The link only provides a summary of the article and suggests you read the magazine so I can’t see what it all says.

However, how do you explain the early Universe before there were any conscious beings around to view it? Once conscious beings did appear is it suggested their consciousness reached back in time to alter the development of the Universe? That’s a pretty big pill to swallow.

Also, what constitutes consciousness sufficient to affect the quantum state? An amoeba? Algae? Proto-mosquito? T-Rex?

What about life elsewhere in the Universe (assuming it exists)? Did the first consciousness out of the gate set the tone for _everywhere_ else or do all our consciousenesses combine in some fashion?

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**Author:** ![Ring](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/r/6a8cbe/32.png) [@Ring](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Ring)\
**Post date:** [June 12, 2002, 3:44pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/the-observer-and-quantum-theory/112678/22 "2002-06-12T15:44:56Z")

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> [@](#):
>
> \*Originally posted by Whack-a-Mole \*  
> \*\*
> 
> \<snip\>
> 
> However, how do you explain the early Universe before there were any conscious beings around to view it? Once conscious beings did appear is it suggested their consciousness reached back in time to alter the development of the Universe? That’s a pretty big pill to swallow.\*\*

This is really an unanswerable question. Some, like John Archibald Wheeler hold that we teleologically collapsed our own wavefunction:

> [@](#):
>
> [http://www.cassiopaea.org/perseus/qfractals.htm](http://www.cassiopaea.org/perseus/qfractals.htm)
> 
> “The universe viewed as a self-excited circuit. Starting small (thin U at upper right), it grows (loop of U) to observer participancy - which in turn imparts ‘tangible reality’ (cf. the delayed-choice experiment of Fig. 22.9) to even the earliest days of the universe”

I don’t have a problem with this as I can’t imagine how an objective universe could even be envisioned without a conscious observer. And there’s certainly no way to test whether something tangibly exists when it’s not being observed.

On the other hand a lot of scientists are embracing quantum decoherence as the answer.

Who knows - all we’ve got are mathematical models of reality, and it’s all just confusion on how to interpret them.

> [@](#):
>
> \*\*Also, what constitutes consciousness sufficient to affect the quantum state? An amoeba? Algae? Proto-mosquito? T-Rex?
> 
> \*\*

Self awareness.

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