# The octuplet woman, crazy, selfish or normal? **URL:** \ **Category:** Great Debates\ **Created:** [February 10, 2009, 1:17pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/the-octuplet-woman-crazy-selfish-or-normal/485204 "2009-02-10T13:17:18Z")\ **Posts on this page:** 20\ **Page:** 3
**Author:** ![Strassia](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/s/e8c25b/32.png) [@Strassia](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Strassia)\ **Post date:** [February 10, 2009, 6:28pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/the-octuplet-woman-crazy-selfish-or-normal/485204/41 "2009-02-10T18:28:30Z")
> [@Kalhoun](#): > > I thought I heard that she wanted them all implanted so they each had a chance (maybe she figured she couldn’t do any more after this last round). That makes twisted sense. If she was out of money for IVF, she may have decided to throw them all in on one implantation. Jonathan ---
**Author:** ![Yllaria](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/yllaria/32/3452_2.png) [@Yllaria](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Yllaria)\ **Post date:** [February 10, 2009, 6:30pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/the-octuplet-woman-crazy-selfish-or-normal/485204/42 "2009-02-10T18:30:12Z")
There have been articles saying that they implanted six embryos every time before, with each time producing a singleton or set of twins. But this time, instead of losing most of them, two of them split. Not that I’d consider any article to be accurate at this point. ---
**Author:** ![Sarahfeena](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/sarahfeena/32/519_2.png) [@Sarahfeena](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Sarahfeena)\ **Post date:** [February 10, 2009, 6:31pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/the-octuplet-woman-crazy-selfish-or-normal/485204/43 "2009-02-10T18:31:56Z")
> [@Strassia](#): > > That makes twisted sense. If she was out of money for IVF, she may have decided to throw them all in on one implantation. > > Jonathan Oh, yeah…I didn’t think about the money angle. Man, that doctor should have his license revoked. ---
**Author:** ![kaylasdad99](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/kaylasdad99/32/3398_2.png) [@kaylasdad99](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/kaylasdad99)\ **Post date:** [February 10, 2009, 6:48pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/the-octuplet-woman-crazy-selfish-or-normal/485204/44 "2009-02-10T18:48:22Z")
The state is looking into that, according to reports I heard on the radio this morning. ---
**Author:** ![skylyn12](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/s/5f8ce5/32.png) [@skylyn12](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/skylyn12)\ **Post date:** [February 10, 2009, 6:49pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/the-octuplet-woman-crazy-selfish-or-normal/485204/45 "2009-02-10T18:49:18Z")
Here are photos of the lavish living arrangement the first six are living in (and being cared for in by grandma): [http://www.radaronline.com/photos/2009/02/nadya\_suleman\_octuplet\_mom\_2.php](http://www.radaronline.com/photos/2009/02/nadya_suleman_octuplet_mom_2.php) I just don’t see any way to possibly fit 8 more kids in this house. Do they make triple-decker bassinets? ---
**Author:** ![suranyi](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/s/e36b37/32.png) [@suranyi](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/suranyi)\ **Post date:** [February 10, 2009, 7:14pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/the-octuplet-woman-crazy-selfish-or-normal/485204/46 "2009-02-10T19:14:58Z")
> [@Diogenes\_the\_Cynic](#): > > Crazy or not, she’s irresponsible as hell. > > Those other single moms on welfare are irresponsible too, but this is orders of magnitude worse. The doctor who agreed to do this is just as disgusting. This should be illegal. > > I think fertility treatments in general are a vile perversion of nature. Stories about 60 year old women having giant litters of babies already makes my stomach churn. Now this? This is a horrific trend. The world is over-populated as it is. > > If these kinds of souped up fertility treatments are going to allowed, there should be a law mandating that no more than one live birth can be allowed to result. Once there’s a viable embryo, all others should be destroyed in vitro. Now that’s going a little too far, IMO. My wife and I have been undergoing IVF treatments for a few years now, so far without success. We’d be happy with one success, but they always implant two embryos, and if we got twins that would be great too. Ed ---
**Author:** ![Jayn\_Newell](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/j/f9ae1b/32.png) [@Jayn\_Newell](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Jayn_Newell)\ **Post date:** [February 10, 2009, 7:21pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/the-octuplet-woman-crazy-selfish-or-normal/485204/47 "2009-02-10T19:21:28Z")
> [@suranyi](#): > > Now that’s going a little too far, IMO. My wife and I have been undergoing IVF treatments for a few years now, so far without success. We’d be happy with one success, but they always implant two embryos, and if we got twins that would be great too. > > Ed This is a bit OT, but have you ever considered adopting? I’m not for IVF, but I’m not about to stop you from doing it either. Do whatever makes you happy–I just don’t get it. (But then again, I’d kinda rather adopt than have my own anyways…) ---
**Author:** ![Gangster\_Octopus](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/g/a8b319/32.png) [@Gangster\_Octopus](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Gangster_Octopus)\ **Post date:** [February 10, 2009, 7:25pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/the-octuplet-woman-crazy-selfish-or-normal/485204/48 "2009-02-10T19:25:13Z")
> [@Daddypants](#): > > A vagina is not a clown car. Hoy crap! That is the funniest thing I have read in a long time. ---
**Author:** ![suranyi](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/s/e36b37/32.png) [@suranyi](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/suranyi)\ **Post date:** [February 10, 2009, 7:53pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/the-octuplet-woman-crazy-selfish-or-normal/485204/49 "2009-02-10T19:53:36Z")
> [@Jayn\_Newell](#): > > This is a bit OT, but have you ever considered adopting? > > I’m not for IVF, but I’m not about to stop you from doing it either. Do whatever makes you happy–I just don’t get it. (But then again, I’d kinda rather adopt than have my own anyways…) We have definitely considered adopting. It’s a longer process, it’s more expensive, and it has bigger legal issues. Ed ---
**Author:** ![Annie-Xmas](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/a/ecc23a/32.png) [@Annie-Xmas](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Annie-Xmas)\ **Post date:** [February 10, 2009, 9:33pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/the-octuplet-woman-crazy-selfish-or-normal/485204/50 "2009-02-10T21:33:24Z")
Those living conditions are deplorable. You couldn’t house 14 cats in a three bedroom house. I think Social Services needs to investigate this woman. Since she is getting $2M any government assistance needs to be cut off. If it’s determined her children are not being adequately cared for in a proper envirnonment with adequate living space, take them away from her. ---
**Author:** ![batsto](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/b/b2d939/32.png) [@batsto](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/batsto)\ **Post date:** [February 10, 2009, 9:48pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/the-octuplet-woman-crazy-selfish-or-normal/485204/51 "2009-02-10T21:48:22Z")
That house doesn’t look ‘dirty’ as much as cluttered. The floor looks like it’s been vacuumed; the back yard is mowed, etc. There’s a lot of clothing, but it looks to me like it’s not dirty laundry. (I had a bedroom closet look almost as bad as that, and I’ve only got two kids. Of course, it’s in my room, not the kids room). But to hear descriptions of these photos before I saw them, it sounded truly horrific. I was expecting waaay worse. ---
**Author:** ![aruvqan](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/aruvqan/32/2891_2.png) [@aruvqan](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/aruvqan)\ **Post date:** [February 10, 2009, 10:02pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/the-octuplet-woman-crazy-selfish-or-normal/485204/52 "2009-02-10T22:02:42Z")
> [@smiling\_bandit](#): > > There is nothing wrong with large families! > > This particular woman is, in fact, probably more than a little off her rocker judging by some reports I’ve seen of her medical history. There is nothing wrong with large families if you have the means to support them without going on welfare … and that includes SPACE for all of them. How many fucking people are crammed into a 3 bedroom home? Did you know that you can not adopt a kid unless you have a bedroom for them and only them? You need a certain amount of other living space, and you NEED A FUCKING JOB. She wouldn’t be allowed to even foster the kids, or adopt, but apparently it is ok to treat your hoohaa like a clown car and pop out all the kids you want, without any means of supporting them, or space to keep them. ---
**Author:** ![curlcoat](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/c/ea5d25/32.png) [@curlcoat](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/curlcoat)\ **Post date:** [February 10, 2009, 10:18pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/the-octuplet-woman-crazy-selfish-or-normal/485204/53 "2009-02-10T22:18:55Z")
> [@Rune](#): > > Everyday all across the USA hundreds or thousands of children are born to single welfare mothers with no realistic chance of ever being able to support them. So what so different in principle with this particular women, except the uniqueness of having eight of them simultaneously? How many women on welfare have the money to have eight fertilized eggs implanted in them at one time? Or at any time? ---
**Author:** ![curlcoat](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/c/ea5d25/32.png) [@curlcoat](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/curlcoat)\ **Post date:** [February 10, 2009, 10:20pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/the-octuplet-woman-crazy-selfish-or-normal/485204/54 "2009-02-10T22:20:25Z")
> [@skylyn12](#): > > 3 of the original 6 kids get SSI. Why? ---
**Author:** ![Muffin](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/muffin/32/4341_2.png) [@Muffin](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Muffin)\ **Post date:** [February 10, 2009, 10:45pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/the-octuplet-woman-crazy-selfish-or-normal/485204/55 "2009-02-10T22:45:23Z")
By having a second large litter, she will have spares in case she runs out. ---
**Author:** ![curlcoat](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/c/ea5d25/32.png) [@curlcoat](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/curlcoat)\ **Post date:** [February 10, 2009, 10:50pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/the-octuplet-woman-crazy-selfish-or-normal/485204/56 "2009-02-10T22:50:16Z")
> [@aruvqan](#): > > There is nothing wrong with large families if you have the means to support them without going on welfare … and that includes SPACE for all of them. How many fucking people are crammed into a 3 bedroom home? > > Did you know that you can not adopt a kid unless you have a bedroom for them and only them? You need a certain amount of other living space, and you NEED A FUCKING JOB. > > She wouldn’t be allowed to even foster the kids, or adopt, but apparently it is ok to treat your hoohaa like a clown car and pop out all the kids you want, without any means of supporting them, or space to keep them. Well, there is all kinds of things wrong with large families if you care at all what sort of world your children are going to grow up in… However, what I was wondering is why there are so many restrictions on fostering or adopting children who are already here, but none on how many one can have no matter what income level/living situation/etc there is? ---
**Author:** ![you\_with\_the\_face](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/y/ecccb3/32.png) [@you\_with\_the\_face](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/you_with_the_face)\ **Post date:** [February 10, 2009, 10:54pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/the-octuplet-woman-crazy-selfish-or-normal/485204/57 "2009-02-10T22:54:18Z")
> [@curlcoat](#): > > However, what I was wondering is why there are so many restrictions on fostering or adopting children who are already here, but none on how many one can have no matter what income level/living situation/etc there is? There may not be any restrictions on how many kids you can have, but signs of abuse and extreme deprivation (which can be a product of having too many kids for one’s means) will trigger government action. That what CPS is for. ---
**Author:** ![curlcoat](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/c/ea5d25/32.png) [@curlcoat](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/curlcoat)\ **Post date:** [February 10, 2009, 10:55pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/the-octuplet-woman-crazy-selfish-or-normal/485204/58 "2009-02-10T22:55:46Z")
> [@you\_with\_the\_face](#): > > There may not be any restrictions on how many kids you can have, but signs of abuse and extreme deprivation (which can be a product of having too many kids for one’s means) will trigger government action. That what CPS is for. Seems like it would be better for all concerned to be proactive about it! ---
**Author:** ![MeDrewNotYou](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/m/838e76/32.png) [@MeDrewNotYou](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/MeDrewNotYou)\ **Post date:** [February 10, 2009, 11:00pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/the-octuplet-woman-crazy-selfish-or-normal/485204/59 "2009-02-10T23:00:09Z")
> [@Diogenes\_the\_Cynic](#): > > Crazy or not, she’s irresponsible as hell. > > Those other single moms on welfare are irresponsible too, but this is orders of magnitude worse. The doctor who agreed to do this is just as disgusting. This should be illegal. As much as I agree that this woman did a horrible thing to her kids, I’m wary of putting a blanket proscription against any reproductive act. The vast majority of women aren’t going to have 14 kids just because they like 'em, and the vast majority of doctors are going to rightly refuse to implant 8\* (or 6, depending on accounts) embryos at once, especially into someone with 6 kids at home. I prefer to count on the good sense of responsible MDs to just deny fertility treatment in cases like this. I trust the doctors peers and licensing board to deal with rogues like him. Let CPS step in if need be as well. The law dictating what people can do with their genitals is the kind of precedent I’d rather avoid. \*-I think the SOP with fertility doctors is one or two implants at a time, feel free to correct. ---
**Author:** ![skylyn12](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/s/5f8ce5/32.png) [@skylyn12](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/skylyn12)\ **Post date:** [February 10, 2009, 11:46pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/the-octuplet-woman-crazy-selfish-or-normal/485204/60 "2009-02-10T23:46:01Z")
> [@curlcoat](#): > > Why? Apparently, they are disabled in some manner or another. I’ve heard ASD, ADHD, etc. [Previous page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/the-octuplet-woman-crazy-selfish-or-normal/485204.md?page=2) [Next page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/the-octuplet-woman-crazy-selfish-or-normal/485204.md?page=4)