# The Office 11/20 "Frame Toby" **URL:** \ **Category:** Cafe Society\ **Created:** [November 21, 2008, 4:41am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/the-office-11-20-frame-toby/473788 "2008-11-21T04:41:11Z")\ **Posts on this page:** 20\ **Page:** 2
**Author:** ![Sigmagirl](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/s/c89c15/32.png) [@Sigmagirl](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Sigmagirl)\ **Post date:** [November 21, 2008, 2:34pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/the-office-11-20-frame-toby/473788/21 "2008-11-21T14:34:14Z")
Plus, Ryan was a cokehead. His double-sales-entry scheme was funding his habit. ---
**Author:** ![LVBoPeep](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/l/858c86/32.png) [@LVBoPeep](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/LVBoPeep)\ **Post date:** [November 21, 2008, 2:43pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/the-office-11-20-frame-toby/473788/22 "2008-11-21T14:43:05Z")
Great- thanks everyone! Poor Pam- sorry she flunked out. I liked the part with the microwave- especially the “That’s why we have a temp” line. And that random story of Dwight’s and the chandlier. ---
**Author:** ![Eleanor\_of\_Aquitaine](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/e/a88e4f/32.png) [@Eleanor\_of\_Aquitaine](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Eleanor_of_Aquitaine)\ **Post date:** [November 21, 2008, 2:46pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/the-office-11-20-frame-toby/473788/23 "2008-11-21T14:46:37Z")
The drug frame was over the top, but notice that Michael couldn’t actually go through with it? He was claiming the bag as his, even before the cops figured out it was salad. Even if Pam likes the house, she should be angry that he bought it without consulting her. It may seem like a sweet gesture at first, but I wonder if she will think it over and be mad later? ---
**Author:** ![gigi](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/g/a587f6/32.png) [@gigi](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/gigi)\ **Post date:** [November 21, 2008, 2:46pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/the-office-11-20-frame-toby/473788/24 "2008-11-21T14:46:46Z")
> [@Diogenes\_the\_Cynic](#): > > Also, it was kind of weird to see a character who’s not particularly well-heeled (A job like Jim’s would pay what – 50-60K a year?) go out and buy a house by himself with the lending market as comatose as it is right now. He bought it from his parents so they could retire. Presumably they gave him a good deal on it. ---
**Author:** ![msmith537](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/m/d9b06d/32.png) [@msmith537](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/msmith537)\ **Post date:** [November 21, 2008, 2:50pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/the-office-11-20-frame-toby/473788/25 "2008-11-21T14:50:12Z")
> [@myskepticsight](#): > > Ryan came back and was trying to get on Kelly, who was dating Daryl from the warehouse. He was all over her then tried to get her to dump Daryl. Ryan obviously thought Kelly wasn’t going to dump him, but when she did he lost his fire for her. So basically he only liked Kelly because he couldn’t have her, now he does and he is an ass again. Right. At the end of last weeks episode, Kelly prattles on about their “love” for the cameras and then Ryan says “I guess I just realized that, for whatever reason, Kelly was the best I would do.” > [@Sigmagirl](#): > > Plus, Ryan was a cokehead. His double-sales-entry scheme was funding his habit. I don’t think he takes a commission on every sale that goes through the web site. They probably pay him enough as a VP to live in his Manhattan studio and afford a mild drug habbit. ---
**Author:** ![shy\_guy](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/s/a6a055/32.png) [@shy\_guy](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/shy_guy)\ **Post date:** [November 21, 2008, 3:25pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/the-office-11-20-frame-toby/473788/26 "2008-11-21T15:25:36Z")
> [@Diogenes\_the\_Cynic](#): > > Also, it was kind of weird to see a character who’s not particularly well-heeled (A job like Jim’s would pay what – 50-60K a year?) go out and buy a house by himself with the lending market as comatose as it is right now. It actually doesn’t seem weird to me that Jim would have a lot of money saved up, because, really, what does he ever _do_ with it? He lives modestly, doesn’t like to travel, and doesn’t have any expensive hobbies or anybody to support. He doesn’t seem like the kind of guy who would have any credit card debt, and his student loans were probably paid off years ago. It seems to me that he could have saved up plenty over the past fifteen or whatever years. I imagine a sizable down payment and good credit would be enough to get the house from his parents. He also said that he was “helping them out” by taking the house off their hands, but I’m not really sure what that means. ---
**Author:** ![Gus\_Gusterson](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/g/85f322/32.png) [@Gus\_Gusterson](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Gus_Gusterson)\ **Post date:** [November 21, 2008, 4:08pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/the-office-11-20-frame-toby/473788/27 "2008-11-21T16:08:29Z")
> [@shy\_guy](#): > > It actually doesn’t seem weird to me that Jim would have a lot of money saved up, because, really, what does he ever _do_ with it? He lives modestly, doesn’t like to travel, and doesn’t have any expensive hobbies or anybody to support. He doesn’t seem like the kind of guy who would have any credit card debt, and his student loans were probably paid off years ago. It seems to me that he could have saved up plenty over the past fifteen or whatever years. > > I imagine a sizable down payment and good credit would be enough to get the house from his parents. He also said that he was “helping them out” by taking the house off their hands, but I’m not really sure what that means. Plus, he lives in Scranton. A modest house that needs a lot of work and is in what didn’t sound like the best neighborhood (Creed lives there) probably doesn’t cost a fortune. ---
**Author:** ![Chefguy](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/chefguy/32/138_2.png) [@Chefguy](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Chefguy)\ **Post date:** [November 21, 2008, 4:09pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/the-office-11-20-frame-toby/473788/28 "2008-11-21T16:09:38Z")
This was pretty much a crapfest. My attention wandered and I kept looking at the clock to see how much more I’d have to endure. ---
**Author:** ![Sigmagirl](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/s/c89c15/32.png) [@Sigmagirl](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Sigmagirl)\ **Post date:** [November 21, 2008, 4:19pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/the-office-11-20-frame-toby/473788/29 "2008-11-21T16:19:40Z")
I thought Creed lived in a van down by the river. Turns out he lives in a van down by the quarry. ---
**Author:** ![Justin\_Bailey](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/justin_bailey/32/8792_2.png) [@Justin\_Bailey](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Justin_Bailey)\ **Post date:** [November 21, 2008, 4:25pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/the-office-11-20-frame-toby/473788/30 "2008-11-21T16:25:26Z")
> [@Gus\_Gusterson](#): > > Plus, he lives in Scranton. A modest house that needs a lot of work and is in what didn’t sound like the best neighborhood (Creed lives there) probably doesn’t cost a fortune. [Here’s a site with Scranton house prices.](http://www.trulia.com/PA/Scranton/#for_sale/Scranton,PA) The majority are under $130,000 and almost 40% are below $100,000. If Jim makes between $50-60,000 a year with few expenses, it’s possible he was able to buy the house outright. ---
**Author:** ![ZebraShaSha](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/z/eada6e/32.png) [@ZebraShaSha](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/ZebraShaSha)\ **Post date:** [November 21, 2008, 4:40pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/the-office-11-20-frame-toby/473788/31 "2008-11-21T16:40:52Z")
> [@Gus\_Gusterson](#): > > Plus, he lives in Scranton. A modest house that needs a lot of work and is in what didn’t sound like the best neighborhood (Creed lives there) probably doesn’t cost a fortune. If it’s anything like the south of Pittsburgh, I wouldn’t be surprised if it cost 70k. No more than 100k, at least. ---
**Author:** ![pulykamell](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/pulykamell/32/3166_2.png) [@pulykamell](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/pulykamell)\ **Post date:** [November 21, 2008, 5:08pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/the-office-11-20-frame-toby/473788/32 "2008-11-21T17:08:03Z")
> [@gigi](#): > > He bought it from his parents so they could retire. Presumably they gave him a good deal on it. That, and average home prices in Scranton are well under $200K. (According to Yahoo, the median home value is $133K. [Money.cnn,com](http://money.cnn.com/magazines/moneymag/bplive/2008/snapshots/PL4269000.html) says it’s $93K). So, yeah, on that salary, he could easily afford a house in Scranton. edit: I swear I didn’t see the two posts right above mine. ---
**Author:** ![Lamia](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/l/8e7dd6/32.png) [@Lamia](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Lamia)\ **Post date:** [November 21, 2008, 5:40pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/the-office-11-20-frame-toby/473788/33 "2008-11-21T17:40:39Z")
I thought the house subplot was weak, but had some true LOL moments during Michael’s plot to get rid of Toby. I also thought it was pretty funny that Jim said the garage had great light for an artist’s studio, when it didn’t even have windows! > [@Diogenes\_the\_Cynic](#): > > Also, it was kind of weird to see a character who’s not particularly well-heeled (A job like Jim’s would pay what – 50-60K a year?) go out and buy a house by himself with the lending market as comatose as it is right now. Jim did mention last week that he was aware that buying a house in today’s market was perhaps not a super great idea. But he was buying it from his parents (or just his mother? is his father dead?) and didn’t go through a real estate agent, so he presumably got a good deal. As for Pam’s reaction, I think she wasn’t sure what to think at first. In the end she was probably more excited about Jim’s evident commitment to…commitment…than the house in and of itself. Although they are engaged, her last fiance did string her along for years without showing much sign of wanting to actually get married and settle down. And the studio shows that Jim still supports Pam’s interest in art even though art school didn’t work out so well for her. ---
**Author:** ![Rainbowthief](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/r/4bbf92/32.png) [@Rainbowthief](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Rainbowthief)\ **Post date:** [November 21, 2008, 5:50pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/the-office-11-20-frame-toby/473788/34 "2008-11-21T17:50:52Z")
Man, my wife and I were in stitches! How did everyone here hate it so much? Creed avoiding the cops was hilarous. Also loved Dwight’s Tiffany’s story. The drug frame was funny although I agree that trying to buy pot on company property was too much, But I liked how he couldn’t go through with it and said the bag was his. Michael is a good guy at heart and I like when they show that. I hope Holly returns! ---
**Author:** ![AuntiePam](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/a/f19dbf/32.png) [@AuntiePam](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/AuntiePam)\ **Post date:** [November 21, 2008, 5:55pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/the-office-11-20-frame-toby/473788/35 "2008-11-21T17:55:38Z")
Was Michael on company property? Those guys were loading large appliances (looked like laundry stuff), not paper. I’m assuming the guy took his money and never came back. ---
**Author:** ![Lamia](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/l/8e7dd6/32.png) [@Lamia](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Lamia)\ **Post date:** [November 21, 2008, 6:00pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/the-office-11-20-frame-toby/473788/36 "2008-11-21T18:00:27Z")
> [@AuntiePam](#): > > Was Michael on company property? Those guys were loading large appliances (looked like laundry stuff), not paper. I’m assuming the guy took his money and never came back. They were Vance Refrigeration employees, and work in the same building. Whether the Vance loading dock would count as “company property” would I guess depend on who actually owns the building. ---
**Author:** ![h.sapiens](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/h/e0b2c6/32.png) [@h.sapiens](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/h.sapiens)\ **Post date:** [November 21, 2008, 6:00pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/the-office-11-20-frame-toby/473788/37 "2008-11-21T18:00:47Z")
They were Vance Refrigeration workers. Vance shares space in the building with Dunder-Mifflin, so it was probably down by their loading dock, right next to the DM dock. ---
**Author:** ![Diogenes\_the\_Cynic](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/d/e99b99/32.png) [@Diogenes\_the\_Cynic](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Diogenes_the_Cynic)\ **Post date:** [November 21, 2008, 6:05pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/the-office-11-20-frame-toby/473788/38 "2008-11-21T18:05:40Z")
They were Vance Refrigeration guys. Same office complex, but not technichally Dunder-Mifflin property. They were also the same guys responsible for the joint in parking lot a couple of seasons ago. ---
**Author:** ![Constant\_Reader](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/c/8edcca/32.png) [@Constant\_Reader](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Constant_Reader)\ **Post date:** [November 21, 2008, 6:06pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/the-office-11-20-frame-toby/473788/39 "2008-11-21T18:06:32Z")
This has been bothering me - What was Pam going to cook in the microwave? ---
**Author:** ![DudleyGarrett](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/d/d9b06d/32.png) [@DudleyGarrett](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/DudleyGarrett)\ **Post date:** [November 21, 2008, 6:07pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/the-office-11-20-frame-toby/473788/40 "2008-11-21T18:07:14Z")
All Michael has to do is ask Phyllis to get Bob Vance from Vance Refrigeration to get his employees to return Michael’s money. It’s a no-brainer. [Previous page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/the-office-11-20-frame-toby/473788.md?page=1) [Next page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/the-office-11-20-frame-toby/473788.md?page=3)