# The Office 11/20 "Frame Toby" **URL:** \ **Category:** Cafe Society\ **Created:** [November 21, 2008, 4:41am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/the-office-11-20-frame-toby/473788 "2008-11-21T04:41:11Z")\ **Posts on this page:** 18\ **Page:** 4
**Author:** ![ShadiRoxan](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/s/59ef9b/32.png) [@ShadiRoxan](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/ShadiRoxan)\ **Post date:** [November 22, 2008, 2:42am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/the-office-11-20-frame-toby/473788/61 "2008-11-22T02:42:50Z")
> [@MyFootsZZZ](#): > > I can see why Pam would like the house/gesture, it’s just her face while touring it didn’t express that. I guess that’s what I didn’t like. I took it as she wasn’t that thrilled at the idea until she saw that Jim was trying to make an art studio for her. That’s what won her over. ---
**Author:** ![mshar253](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/m/6de8d8/32.png) [@mshar253](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/mshar253)\ **Post date:** [November 22, 2008, 3:03am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/the-office-11-20-frame-toby/473788/62 "2008-11-22T03:03:11Z")
> [@Diogenes\_the\_Cynic](#): > > They slipped him the sald in a rolled up bag and told him to scram before he could get a chance to get a good look at it. Let that be a lesson. Always inspect the bag before you hand over the cash, especially if you don’t know the dealer. “I don’t think Michael has ever done drugs. I don’t think anyone has ever offered him any.” ---
**Author:** ![VoluntaryPlan](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/v/9fc29f/32.png) [@VoluntaryPlan](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/VoluntaryPlan)\ **Post date:** [November 22, 2008, 3:22am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/the-office-11-20-frame-toby/473788/63 "2008-11-22T03:22:53Z")
I thought it was a dull episode until the end. What caught my eye was that Michael seemed to show some disgust of what he had done and was projecting it on to Toby. When Toby didn’t turn him in or yell at him for doing it, Michael yelled at Toby for being concerned about the officers’ time. A lot of times when Michael’s mocking Toby, it’s for not having friends, like he’s some sort of pariah, and making everyone uncomfortable by being there. These are all problems Michael has, but around Toby, he pretends they’re all problems Toby alone has. There was an episode in the first season, I think, where Toby brought a beautiful woman to an office party. Michael just sort of got disgusted by it, though there was no reason to be. I think it showed Michael that you can crawl out of that hole if you want, you don’t always have to be stepped on, but it wasn’t a step Michael could take. Toby being back reminded him that his bosses stepped on him, they took the only person who gave him self-worth away. Toby pretty much represented Michael’s lack of worth. So Michael was disgusted with himself after the drug deal and channeled in to anger at Toby. If Toby had reacted like Michael, if he had yelled, or gotten him back, maybe Michael would have stopped, because Toby would be at his level again. Instead Toby just lets it all slide when it comes to attacking him because his self-worth isn’t defined by what the people above him say to him. Dunno, just a thought. ---
**Author:** ![Biffy\_the\_Elephant\_Shrew](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/b/e47c2d/32.png) [@Biffy\_the\_Elephant\_Shrew](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Biffy_the_Elephant_Shrew)\ **Post date:** [November 22, 2008, 5:16am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/the-office-11-20-frame-toby/473788/64 "2008-11-22T05:16:03Z")
> [@Diogenes\_the\_Cynic](#): > > (I think it was Ryan who made the mess), When Ryan spoke to Pam about the mess, I was _sure_ he was going to walk away and leave his used soup cup on her counter. ---
**Author:** ![Max\_the\_Immortal](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/m/6de8d8/32.png) [@Max\_the\_Immortal](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Max_the_Immortal)\ **Post date:** [November 22, 2008, 8:47am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/the-office-11-20-frame-toby/473788/65 "2008-11-22T08:47:27Z")
> [@corkboard](#): > > Any HR rep worth their salt would immediately report Michael and would be instrumental in a serious reprimand, if not his firing. Since when is anyone at DM any good at their job? ---
**Author:** ![What\_the](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/w/f4b2a3/32.png) [@What\_the](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/What_the)\ **Post date:** [November 22, 2008, 2:36pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/the-office-11-20-frame-toby/473788/66 "2008-11-22T14:36:06Z")
> [@Diogenes\_the\_Cynic](#): > > Speaking of Creed. Didn’t he once say that he lived right there in the office building? Did he get a real place now? > > Come to think of it, I guess he didn’t really say he had a place, only that he “lives by the quarry.” That could mean a lot of things. I think it was in an outtake a couple seasons ago where he said he was a Canadian resident for the healthcare and crossed the border weekly. I’ve been watching for but haven’t seen anything along that line since. ---
**Author:** ![Chum](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/c/3ab097/32.png) [@Chum](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Chum)\ **Post date:** [November 22, 2008, 3:22pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/the-office-11-20-frame-toby/473788/67 "2008-11-22T15:22:59Z")
I thought Pam was unsure about the house until she saw the garage/art studio, too. Personally, I’d be 100% furious if my boyfriend bought us a house without telling me. I didn’t think this episode was that bad. I loved Michael trying to be nice to Toby. And I didn’t think anything was as over-the-top as him driving into the lake (which I hated). He _really_ hates Toby. He always has. And now it’s worse because Toby’s replacing Holly. Speaking of Holly, I really hope she comes back. She was instantly my favorite character. And I think Michael deserves to be happy with someone. I don’t think Jim would lie to his coworkers about where he lives. He had them all over for a party in the episode where Michael starts reading everyone’s email. I was also very confused by what Pam was trying to microwave. And I thought at first that it was Jim who made the mess, until I remembered that he just eats sandwiches. I think Ryan is a safe assumption, given his historical ineptitude with heating food items. I loved how he said he’d make it worse if he tried to clean it up. That was probably my favorite part of the episode. ---
**Author:** ![pulykamell](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/pulykamell/32/3166_2.png) [@pulykamell](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/pulykamell)\ **Post date:** [November 22, 2008, 4:04pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/the-office-11-20-frame-toby/473788/68 "2008-11-22T16:04:13Z")
> [@Chum](#): > > And I didn’t think anything was as over-the-top as him driving into the lake (which I hated). People have driven into really stupid situations with GPS. Google it and you’ll find some over-the-top stories, including one of a Polish driver [directing his minibus into the lake](http://www.abc.net.au/news/stories/2008/10/25/2401130.htm). (Although I have found that story on many sites, I’m still a little :dubious: as to its veracity.) ---
**Author:** ![Cat\_Whisperer](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/cat_whisperer/32/4839_2.png) [@Cat\_Whisperer](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Cat_Whisperer)\ **Post date:** [November 22, 2008, 6:11pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/the-office-11-20-frame-toby/473788/69 "2008-11-22T18:11:39Z")
> [@Chum](#): > > \ > I don’t think Jim would lie to his coworkers about where he lives. He had them all over for a party in the episode where Michael starts reading everyone’s email.\ He did, too, that’s right. Of course, it was to prove to his roommates that these incredible weirdos actually existed. 🙂 ---
**Author:** ![MyFootsZZZ](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/myfootszzz/32/12580_2.png) [@MyFootsZZZ](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/MyFootsZZZ)\ **Post date:** [November 23, 2008, 1:59am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/the-office-11-20-frame-toby/473788/70 "2008-11-23T01:59:45Z")
We all know Jim doesn’t take his job very seriously, but to what point does his tite encourage him to give praise to people who do a good job, or have a talk with someone who’s irate, or even get authoritative? It would be fun to see Pam do something that’s a little out of line. I agree with the note, but _ **I** _ would have cleaned it, and maybe write it a little differently. She’s under no obligation to clean it though. Just wondering what if she really screws up? ---
**Author:** ![Fiddle\_Peghead](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/fiddle_peghead/32/3506_2.png) [@Fiddle\_Peghead](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Fiddle_Peghead)\ **Post date:** [November 23, 2008, 4:28am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/the-office-11-20-frame-toby/473788/71 "2008-11-23T04:28:01Z")
One question: Is Ryan going to Thailand for cheap, ladyboy sex? ---
**Author:** ![Cat\_Whisperer](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/cat_whisperer/32/4839_2.png) [@Cat\_Whisperer](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Cat_Whisperer)\ **Post date:** [November 23, 2008, 4:32am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/the-office-11-20-frame-toby/473788/72 "2008-11-23T04:32:37Z")
> [@Fiddle\_Peghead](#): > > One question: Is Ryan going to Thailand for cheap, ladyboy sex? I thought perhaps it was more drug-related. ---
**Author:** ![Diogenes\_the\_Cynic](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/d/e99b99/32.png) [@Diogenes\_the\_Cynic](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Diogenes_the_Cynic)\ **Post date:** [November 23, 2008, 4:33am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/the-office-11-20-frame-toby/473788/73 "2008-11-23T04:33:59Z")
Isn’t Ryan on some kind of probation? Is he even allowed to leave the country? ---
**Author:** ![Oslo\_Ostragoth](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/o/a9a28c/32.png) [@Oslo\_Ostragoth](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Oslo_Ostragoth)\ **Post date:** [November 23, 2008, 5:06am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/the-office-11-20-frame-toby/473788/74 "2008-11-23T05:06:44Z")
I’ve been remiss. :smack: This week’s litigation value: [$500,000](http://employmentlawpost.com/thatswhatshesaid/2008/11/21/it%e2%80%99s-a-set-up/). ---
**Author:** ![JavaMaven1](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/j/cab0a1/32.png) [@JavaMaven1](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/JavaMaven1)\ **Post date:** [November 23, 2008, 7:09am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/the-office-11-20-frame-toby/473788/75 "2008-11-23T07:09:24Z")
> [@acsenray](#): > > It looked like she opened a yogurt container and poured chicken broth out of it into a plastic bowl. Does chicken broth come in yogurt container-like things? It’s egg whites. I’ve seen them in the little yogurt-style cups being sold at Trader Joes. ---
**Author:** ![CaveMike](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/cavemike/32/16379_2.png) [@CaveMike](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/CaveMike)\ **Post date:** [November 23, 2008, 5:31pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/the-office-11-20-frame-toby/473788/76 "2008-11-23T17:31:29Z")
> [@msmith537](#): > > Yeah what happened with the “drug deal”. The guy told Michael to give him $500 and then they were like “ok! quick! walk away!” I assumed either they gave Michael the salad in a bag or made him panic and scurry off so by the time he realized he got nothing in return, they would be gone. The Vance guy gave him the salad in the bag. I think the whole reason they were standing there eating lunch was to explain why one of them would have salad close at hand. There were some good lines tucked in there. Michael’s “Whose side are you on?” to Ryan when Ryan was encouraging Toby to punch Michael. And Creed’s subtle reaction when the cops showed up. I fell for the ‘trick’ of Pam liking Jim’s parent’s house, but only because I assumed that this was where the writers were going to finally insert some conflict. I figured the set-up was so obvious that it was intended as a double-reverse. ---
**Author:** ![Acsenray](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/acsenray/32/4519_2.png) [@Acsenray](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Acsenray)\ **Post date:** [December 2, 2008, 1:25am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/the-office-11-20-frame-toby/473788/77 "2008-12-02T01:25:03Z")
> [@JavaMaven1](#): > > It’s egg whites. I’ve seen them in the little yogurt-style cups being sold at Trader Joes. Half a cup of microwaved egg whites? That’s food? ---
**Author:** ![voguevixen](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/v/b5ac83/32.png) [@voguevixen](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/voguevixen)\ **Post date:** [December 2, 2008, 3:42am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/the-office-11-20-frame-toby/473788/78 "2008-12-02T03:42:04Z")
> [@acsenray](#): > > Half a cup of microwaved egg whites? That’s food? To people who are engaged to be married and trying to fit into a wedding dress, yeah. :mad: (Not that she needs to worry about that.) [Previous page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/the-office-11-20-frame-toby/473788.md?page=3)