# The Office - 5/16/2013 - Retrospective, Finale
**URL:** https://boards.straightdope.com/t/the-office-5-16-2013-retrospective-finale/658564
**Category:** Cafe Society
**Created:** [May 16, 2013, 11:36pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/the-office-5-16-2013-retrospective-finale/658564 "2013-05-16T23:36:11Z")
**Posts on this page:** 19
**Page:** 6
### Author:  [@Joey\_P](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Joey_P)
#### Post date: [May 18, 2013, 6:35pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/the-office-5-16-2013-retrospective-finale/658564/101 "2013-05-18T18:35:27Z")
A few years back I was [trying to find something](http://boards.straightdope.com/sdmb/showpost.php?p=13160350&postcount=4) out about the character Creed and couldn’t because there was someone IRL named Creed Bratton and it was causing a problem with my searches.
[Sleeps explained it to me.](http://boards.straightdope.com/sdmb/showpost.php?p=13160669&postcount=9)
[Now](http://boards.straightdope.com/sdmb/showpost.php?p=13160822&postcount=13) [I know](http://boards.straightdope.com/sdmb/showpost.php?p=13161050&postcount=19).
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### Author:  [@Joey\_P](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Joey_P)
#### Post date: [May 18, 2013, 6:40pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/the-office-5-16-2013-retrospective-finale/658564/102 "2013-05-18T18:40:26Z")
> [@singular1](#):
>
> Actually, I listened to an interview with Creed on a podcast, and most of what he was wanted for (dealing drugs & stealing LSD from the military) are exactly what he did. I don’t remember him saying anything about endangered animal meat, but he did spend a lot of time in Morrocco in the 60s, so anything’s possible. It was a great interview - if I can find out with who, I’ll post an update.
>
> Found it! Kevin & Bean, April 2013. Sorry, can’t link or find the exact date from iPod.
Ya know, IIRC a criminal can’t profit from crimes they’ve committed. That is, (for example) a murderer can’t write a book about their murders and make money off of it. It would be interesting if a lawyer/DA tried to deem that as semi-autobiographical (either that scene, the episode or the whole show) and sue him for some or all of his money.
Of course, I’m sure things could be adjusted so he’d still be paid anyways, so it wouldn’t really matter anyways. But it’s an interesting (or maybe not) thought exercise.
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### Author:  [@Lamia](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Lamia)
#### Post date: [May 18, 2013, 7:03pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/the-office-5-16-2013-retrospective-finale/658564/103 "2013-05-18T19:03:08Z")
> [@Joey\_P](#):
>
> Ya know, IIRC a criminal can’t profit from crimes they’ve committed. That is, (for example) a murderer can’t write a book about their murders and make money off of it.
I have heard this about murderers, but not for other types of criminals. Since practically every celebrity memoir involves discussion of the celebrity’s history of illegal drug use, it appears that it is legally possible to profit from a book that contains descriptions of one’s past criminal activity.
A quick Google turned up this [Wikipedia entry on “Son of Sam” laws](http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Son_of_Sam_law). It looks like these laws can cover crimes other than murder, but such laws exist only in some states and have to be carefully worded to avoid violating the First Amendment.
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### Author:  [@Katie\_Mae](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Katie_Mae)
#### Post date: [May 18, 2013, 11:39pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/the-office-5-16-2013-retrospective-finale/658564/104 "2013-05-18T23:39:23Z")
discover the BBC original…a perfect 2 year story arc concluded by a subsequent movie-length episode…while I did enjoy early seasons the US version, typical of American televison, the network bled the series to the point of redundancy…Ricky said, when asked about continuing the original at peak popularity, “We simply mustn’t”. Ah, is there anything rarer - or more refreshing - than artistic integrity in contemporary commercial entertainment? just my .02/katie
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### Author:  [@Joey\_P](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Joey_P)
#### Post date: [May 19, 2013, 1:39am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/the-office-5-16-2013-retrospective-finale/658564/105 "2013-05-19T01:39:30Z")
> [@Katie\_Mae](#):
>
> discover the BBC original…a perfect 2 year story arc concluded by a subsequent movie-length episode…while I did enjoy early seasons the US version, typical of American televison, the network bled the series to the point of redundancy…Ricky said, when asked about continuing the original at peak popularity, “We simply mustn’t”. Ah, is there anything rarer - or more refreshing - than artistic integrity in contemporary commercial entertainment? just my .02/katie
It’s my understanding that BBC shows tend to only air for two or three seasons. Sometimes, they even start with that in mind. I’m not sure if they’ve found that doing that makes them last longer in syndication or if it’s because they found they lose viewers as the show goes on, but that’s what I keep hearing. Look at a show like Fawlty Towers, 12 episodes. Keeping Up Appearances, 5 Seasons. Miss Marple, 12 Episodes, Vicar Of Dibley, 20 Episodes (Forgive me if any of these aren’t considered ‘greats’ other then Fawlty Towers, I’m just thinking of random BBC shows off the top of my head that I know had at least some staying power after their initial run.
On the other hand, people often complain about American shows running waaay too long, but the studio execs do know what they’re doing. Yes, they bleed it dry, but is there any sense in leaving money on the table? They’re fully aware that after the initial run there’s still DVD box sets, streaming media, syndication etc, but they are pretty aware of how much people will pay for and what will happen if people get sick of a show. Yes, The Office ran for quite a long time and a lot of people complained that it should have ended a number of years ago, but now that have a box set that they can sell for $100 instead of $70 and a syndication right that they can sell to Fox or USA for $50 million instead of $30 (or what ever the numbers are and quite a few extra episodes that will stream that they can get royalties from. I’m sure the people that stopped watching it will eventually come back around and watch the reruns at some point in the next 10 or 15 years.
We just do things different then the Brits when it comes to TV.
In BBC TV, they’ll plan on a 2 season story arc and stick to it and then the actors move on to the next thing. In the US, they’ll keep plugging away until the viewers stop tuning in week after week. If they stop watching, the sponsors will stop buying airtime or the Network won’t renew the show. But no matter how many people complain that a show shouldn’t be on TV because it’s bad or because it’s been on to many seasons and no watches it anymore, as long as it’s getting renewed, you can be sure that’s not the case.
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### Author:  [@alphaboi867](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/alphaboi867)
#### Post date: [May 19, 2013, 3:06am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/the-office-5-16-2013-retrospective-finale/658564/106 "2013-05-19T03:06:58Z")
> [@Joey\_P](#):
>
> It’s my understanding that BBC shows tend to only air for two or three seasons…
British TV shows usually have a single writer (or pair of writers) instead of having multiple writers on staff like American shows do. Ricky Gervais co-wrote & co-produced the original series in addition to staring in it. There are a lot of benefits to the UK model. Shows don’t get cancelled mid-season, there’s much less filler, and the actors can still do other projects. Plus really popular sitcoms (like **Vicar of Dibley** or **Absolutely Fabulous** ) even get reunion specials for years after the original runs end.
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### Author:  [@MyFootsZZZ](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/MyFootsZZZ)
#### Post date: [May 21, 2013, 3:52pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/the-office-5-16-2013-retrospective-finale/658564/107 "2013-05-21T15:52:11Z")
Just realized Erin’s parents don’t call her by her real name.
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### Author:  [@Justin\_Bailey](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Justin_Bailey)
#### Post date: [May 21, 2013, 3:59pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/the-office-5-16-2013-retrospective-finale/658564/108 "2013-05-21T15:59:26Z")
> [@MyFootsZZZ](#):
>
> Just realized Erin’s parents don’t call her by her real name.
It’s very possible that Erin’s parents don’t know her real name. If they gave her up for adoption before she was named, the new parents would have named her. And if the Documentary didn’t show the “2 Kellys” conversation, they would only know her as Erin from the Documentary.
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### Author:  [@filmore](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/filmore)
#### Post date: [May 21, 2013, 4:01pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/the-office-5-16-2013-retrospective-finale/658564/109 "2013-05-21T16:01:36Z")
One problem with the bleed-it-dry philosophy is that it may cause audiences to tune out of TV all together. I often don’t watch shows like Lost since I know there will not be a satisfying ending. It will be endless mysteries until the series loses steam and then the series is abruptly cancelled. If I knew it was going to be two seasons and then done, I would be more likely to tune in. I would know there’s an actual story arc and not just endless teasers trying to get us to tune in as long as possible.
However, sitcoms aren’t exactly the same thing. They don’t have long, compelling stories. There are background stories to keep the plot moving, but I’m not tuning in to see the story resolved. All I’m looking for is that each episode be entertaining. For the most part, The Office did that pretty well.
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### Author:  [@MyFootsZZZ](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/MyFootsZZZ)
#### Post date: [May 21, 2013, 4:03pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/the-office-5-16-2013-retrospective-finale/658564/110 "2013-05-21T16:03:48Z")
> [@Justin\_Bailey](#):
>
> It’s very possible that Erin’s parents don’t know her real name. If they gave her up for adoption before she was named, the new parents would have named her. And if the Documentary didn’t show the “2 Kellys” conversation, they would only know her as Erin from the Documentary.
Yeah, I know… but it would have been cool if they acknowledged her real name’s Kelly from time to time.
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### Author:  [@Justin\_Bailey](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Justin_Bailey)
#### Post date: [May 21, 2013, 4:06pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/the-office-5-16-2013-retrospective-finale/658564/111 "2013-05-21T16:06:24Z")
> [@MyFootsZZZ](#):
>
> Yeah, I know… but it would have been cool if they acknowledged her real name’s Kelly from time to time.
Lots of people go by their middle name. I think Erin just likes it.
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### Author:  [@RandMcnally](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/RandMcnally)
#### Post date: [May 21, 2013, 4:40pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/the-office-5-16-2013-retrospective-finale/658564/112 "2013-05-21T16:40:08Z")
> [@Justin\_Bailey](#):
>
> Lots of people go by their middle name. I think Erin just likes it.
And I honestly forgot that her name was really Kelly.
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### Author:  [@Tom\_Tildrum](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Tom_Tildrum)
#### Post date: [May 21, 2013, 5:15pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/the-office-5-16-2013-retrospective-finale/658564/113 "2013-05-21T17:15:13Z")
> [@filmore](#):
>
> I would know there’s an actual story arc and not just endless teasers trying to get us to tune in as long as possible.
Well, but then there’s _The Prisoner_.
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### Author:  [@MyFootsZZZ](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/MyFootsZZZ)
#### Post date: [May 21, 2013, 5:15pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/the-office-5-16-2013-retrospective-finale/658564/114 "2013-05-21T17:15:41Z")
> [@Justin\_Bailey](#):
>
> Lots of people go by their middle name. I think Erin just likes it.
I think they just never brought it up again because the audience would be confused.
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### Author:  [@EllisDee](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/EllisDee)
#### Post date: [May 21, 2013, 6:39pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/the-office-5-16-2013-retrospective-finale/658564/115 "2013-05-21T18:39:25Z")
> [@MyFootsZZZ](#):
>
> Just realized Erin’s parents don’t call her by her real name.
My older brother was named David Christopher \ after my father, David C. \. At no point did my parents _ever_ refer to him as Dave or David, nor did anyone else on the planet outside of the rare legal “What’s your legal first name?” kind of deal. He was always and forever Chris, or occasionally Christopher.
As far as I’m aware, nobody ever acknowledges that his real name is David. I certainly never have, even once. Much the same as nobody acknowledges my middle name.
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### Author:  [@pancakes3](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/pancakes3)
#### Post date: [May 21, 2013, 6:43pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/the-office-5-16-2013-retrospective-finale/658564/116 "2013-05-21T18:43:12Z")
> [@EllisDee](#):
>
> My older brother was named David Christopher \ after my father, David C. \. At no point did my parents _ever_ refer to him as Dave or David, nor did anyone else on the planet outside of the rare legal “What’s your legal first name?” kind of deal. He was always and forever Chris, or occasionally Christopher.
>
> As far as I’m aware, nobody ever acknowledges that his real name is David. I certainly never have, even once. Much the same as nobody acknowledges my middle name.
I don’t think he/she was referring to the Kelly name but rather the pre-adoption birth-name although why couldn’t Kelly/Erin be both?
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### Author:  [@TBG](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/TBG)
#### Post date: [May 21, 2013, 11:41pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/the-office-5-16-2013-retrospective-finale/658564/117 "2013-05-21T23:41:19Z")
> [@RandMcnally](#):
>
> And I honestly forgot that her name was really Kelly.
I could honestly see Erin forgetting her name was really Kelly.
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### Author:  [@Acsenray](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Acsenray)
#### Post date: [May 22, 2013, 9:40pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/the-office-5-16-2013-retrospective-finale/658564/118 "2013-05-22T21:40:50Z")
I have very mixed feelings about this finale.
“The Office” has been a big part of my recreational life, ever since the original series was shown on BBC America. At first I definitely preferred the U.K. version, but by Season 2 of the U.S. version, it became one of my favorite shows ever, and it stayed that way for years. I followed it very closely, reading all the threads, and recaps, and discussions.
This last season, I’ve been very alienated from the show, often waiting a few weeks before catching up on Hulu. I really did not find much funny at all in the finale. I suppose my favorite moment was when the male stripper was revealed to be Meredith’s son and the ensuring discomfort was well done.
But almost nothing about this show had what made me love it so much—that key discomfort-based humor. It was almost entirely sentimental with hugs and reunions and reconciliations. One of the reasons why I still love _Seinfeld_ so much was because of Seinfeld’s and Larry David’s strict rule—“no hugging, no lessons.” What made the show great was its ruthlessness. And at the end it was just really cutesy and sentimental.
I would say that the biggest mistake made by the show was to continue to make Jim and Pam’s relationship a central plot feature after they finally got together. That should have been the end of that plot. Yes, Jim and Pam should have been there, and, yes, find, they should have gotten married and had children. But all that _should not have been part of the plot_. It should just have happened in the background.
When I’m watching a comedy I really don’t care if everyone ends up happy. I want them to end up _funny_. And if means that they’re miserable as a result, then that’s fine. Or if it means that their happiness just becomes part of the background rather than as a story line to focus on, that’s fine too. But so much of what we have seen focused on between Jim and Pam has been an utter waste of time. They weren’t going to break up. They weren’t going to have miscarriages or abortions or deaths. Of course, everything would end up okay. That’s not comedic.
But even if it were meant to be dramatic, drama requires some kind of risk and some kind of arc of change. They didn’t even let Jim take his dream job and move to Philadelphia, which they easily could have done this season.
I just don’t know. This show really is close to my heart, but this last season and the finale leave me very unsatisfied.
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### Author:  [@Enderw24](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Enderw24)
#### Post date: [December 26, 2013, 5:36am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/the-office-5-16-2013-retrospective-finale/658564/119 "2013-12-26T05:36:29Z")
> [@Push\_You\_Down](#):
>
> That’s what I thought, but I’m not sure. It seems like the kind of detail they would have gone for.
Just saw this tonight. Season 9 finally hit Netflix (we cancelled cable last year), so my wife and I binged on the season this week. It was much better than season 8 where we were ready to give up on the series altogether.
Anyway, to answer the question above, the stripper is the same guy as Merideth’s kid from 2006:
> **[Spencer Daniels | Actor, Writer, Producer](https://m.imdb.com/name/nm1638022/?showAllCredits=true)**
>
> Known for: Star Trek, The Curious Case of Benjamin Button, This Is 40
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