# The Office "Broke" (Open Spoilers) **URL:** \ **Category:** Cafe Society\ **Created:** [April 24, 2009, 2:11am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/the-office-broke-open-spoilers/494175 "2009-04-24T02:11:12Z")\ **Posts on this page:** 20\ **Page:** 5
**Author:** ![Baldwin](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/baldwin/32/7264_2.png) [@Baldwin](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Baldwin)\ **Post date:** [April 24, 2009, 11:20pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/the-office-broke-open-spoilers/494175/81 "2009-04-24T23:20:03Z")
> [@MyFootsZZZ](#): > > BTW, Are they ‘dumbing’ down Pam? > > She’s been a little flakey every now and then this season. Perhaps she was being sarcastic, but after the advisor “crunched” the numbers again, and she seemed to be holding on to a string of faith that it would ‘do something’. There ARE other examples that I can’t think of right now, but I hope to see Pam resorting to logic as much as she used to. She and Jim were originally the characters to put the absurdity of the office in perspective to the viewers by relating to situations with a sense of realism. After a few weeks of working very closely with Michael in a three-person office, she might have started taking on some of his mental habits. A sort of groupthink. ---
**Author:** ![Surbey](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/s/4491bb/32.png) [@Surbey](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Surbey)\ **Post date:** [April 25, 2009, 12:24am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/the-office-broke-open-spoilers/494175/82 "2009-04-25T00:24:36Z")
I took Pam’s question as sarcastic. Also, Michael isn’t a complete idiot. I think we’ve seen him becoming more and more Homer Simpson throughout the series and this is just a pull back from that. For instance he told Jim that all of his dumb jokes and gags are to make people happy around the office, try to make it a fun place to work. He doesn’t even know why he says what he does, just tries to make people smile. He’s a bad leader because he gets to emotionally attached to things but I don’t think he’s an idiot. ---
**Author:** ![Astral\_Rejection](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/a/258eb7/32.png) [@Astral\_Rejection](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Astral_Rejection)\ **Post date:** [April 25, 2009, 1:05am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/the-office-broke-open-spoilers/494175/83 "2009-04-25T01:05:43Z")
> [@quixotic78](#): > > … he threw a temper tantrum because he wasn’t getting a big 15-year anniversary party. I interpreted that scene a little differently. I think he was upset that David refused to meet with him (remember, he asked David if the men’s room was the “meeting” David was in all day), and that was the source of his anger and frustration. He tried to explain this to David, and got blown off with the talk about his party. I thought Michael had realized David wasn’t listening and didn’t understand why he was so upset. ---
**Author:** ![tnetennba](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/t/7993a0/32.png) [@tnetennba](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/tnetennba)\ **Post date:** [April 25, 2009, 1:05am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/the-office-broke-open-spoilers/494175/84 "2009-04-25T01:05:54Z")
One of the reasons the NBC version doesn’t measure up to the BBC version is that the writers of the BBC version knew from the beginning who David Brent was and why he was like that (mainly, he was an alcoholic) and didn’t decide along the way what his issues were. ---
**Author:** ![Dewey\_Finn](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/dewey_finn/32/4222_2.png) [@Dewey\_Finn](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Dewey_Finn)\ **Post date:** [April 25, 2009, 1:17am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/the-office-broke-open-spoilers/494175/85 "2009-04-25T01:17:48Z")
Wait, David Brent was an alcoholic? Was this something that was supposed to be clear to the viewer? It’s been a while since I saw the British version of the show, but I can’t remember any hint of this. ---
**Author:** ![tnetennba](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/t/7993a0/32.png) [@tnetennba](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/tnetennba)\ **Post date:** [April 25, 2009, 1:26am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/the-office-broke-open-spoilers/494175/86 "2009-04-25T01:26:45Z")
Yes, he was always drinking, often during the day. He’d make excuses to take people to the pub. In one episode he drinks a beer with Dawn in his office, and it turns out he keeps some there. It figures into just about every episode, but they never club you over the head with it. ---
**Author:** ![Dewey\_Finn](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/dewey_finn/32/4222_2.png) [@Dewey\_Finn](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Dewey_Finn)\ **Post date:** [April 25, 2009, 1:36am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/the-office-broke-open-spoilers/494175/87 "2009-04-25T01:36:49Z")
I sort of remember all that drinking, but I just figured he was British. ---
**Author:** ![tnetennba](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/t/7993a0/32.png) [@tnetennba](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/tnetennba)\ **Post date:** [April 25, 2009, 1:56am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/the-office-broke-open-spoilers/494175/88 "2009-04-25T01:56:33Z")
Well, it’s not like he’s IRISH. ---
**Author:** ![Acsenray](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/acsenray/32/4519_2.png) [@Acsenray](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Acsenray)\ **Post date:** [April 25, 2009, 2:43am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/the-office-broke-open-spoilers/494175/89 "2009-04-25T02:43:50Z")
> [@cricetus](#): > > the writers of the BBC version knew from the beginning who David Brent was and why he was like that (mainly, he was an alcoholic) and didn’t decide along the way what his issues were. I’ve never heard Ricky Gervais or Stephen Merchant describe David Brent as an alcoholic. ---
**Author:** ![Diogenes\_the\_Cynic](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/d/e99b99/32.png) [@Diogenes\_the\_Cynic](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Diogenes_the_Cynic)\ **Post date:** [April 25, 2009, 2:48am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/the-office-broke-open-spoilers/494175/90 "2009-04-25T02:48:27Z")
The alcoholism thing went right over my head too. ---
**Author:** ![Diogenes\_the\_Cynic](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/d/e99b99/32.png) [@Diogenes\_the\_Cynic](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Diogenes_the_Cynic)\ **Post date:** [April 25, 2009, 3:14am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/the-office-broke-open-spoilers/494175/91 "2009-04-25T03:14:39Z")
> [@cricetus](#): > > One of the reasons the NBC version doesn’t measure up to the BBC version is that the writers of the BBC version knew from the beginning who David Brent was and why he was like that (mainly, he was an alcoholic) and didn’t decide along the way what his issues were. B.J. Novak kind of says the [opposite](http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/David_Brent). > [@](#): > > It has been acknowledged that Brent’s character was deliberately made more sympathetic as the show progressed. In the DVD commentary of the pilot US episode of The Office, writer B.J. Novak recalls Gervais and Merchant saying that they deliberately altered Brent to become more of a “buffoon” in the second series, and thus more likable. This subtle mingling of great comedy and genuine pathos in a superficially grotesque character is characteristic of some of the classics of British comedy, such as Hancock and Steptoe and Son. > > It is said that the duo advised that Brent’s US equivalent, Michael Scott, be the same from the beginning. Scott’s character loses much of Brent’s nastier traits, and concentrates on his failed and often desperate attempts at humour. Also, more obvious emphasis is placed on Scott’s loneliness. Also, while Brent is never shown to possess any business skills at all, Scott is portrayed as a great salesman who was unwisely promoted and became a hopeless manager. I actually think the NBC version is better, incidentally – at least when it’s at its best. ---
**Author:** ![choie](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/choie/32/7829_2.png) [@choie](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/choie)\ **Post date:** [April 25, 2009, 3:17am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/the-office-broke-open-spoilers/494175/92 "2009-04-25T03:17:19Z")
I couldn’t have loved this episode, or Michael’s character, any more – everything was sublime. That surprised, impressed, proud look Pam gave to the camera during Michael’s bitch-slap of Wallace? Is exactly the same look I had through much of this episode. I think if there’s anything one can say about Michael, it’s that he knows this company inside and out. Maybe he doesn’t get the technical details (like how to work a surplus), but I think there’s a part of him that does pay attention, almost on an unconscious level, and thus he was able to synthesize and utilize the info about the board’s upcoming meeting and how they’ll feel about the fact that their most profitable branch is bleeding. He’s the same way with his customers. It’s not enough to just know facts, such as who has a gay son and whose kid is into soccer. Michael consistently manages to remember and apparently _care_ that one client’s kid always wanted to try out for j.v., or that someone else’s daughter is allergic to hazel nuts, or that Dwight’s cousin has a tendency to fall into wells. Anyway, when Michael said no to the “second” offer of $60K and insisted on a _sales_ job for Pam, I was practically cheering. Yay for Pam and yay even for Ryan. Michael is extraordinarily loyal and in the end he does right by his people. Jim gets kudos too for running after Dwight and finding a strategy to make Dwight look nuts in front of Charles. Jim’s been annoying me for a while, but here he was absolutely second MVP. Third favorite character this ep? Phyllis! I couldn’t be_lieve_ she had the balls to say to David, “maybe if you’d just accepted his calls we wouldn’t be in this mess.” And to David’s credit, he just acknowledged the truth in this statement. He’s really a great character – sure, he’s a corporate putz, but they’ve never made him a mustache-twirling villain. He’s a supervisor with actual humility, which is rare, and keeps him somewhat likeable and sympathetic, even when acting as an antagonist. The actor’s terrific, so natural and down-to-earth. (Reminds me of Sidney Pollack.) Like others I would’ve liked to see this story last a little while longer, but otherwise I have no complaints whatsoever. This arc has been uniformly fabulous. ---
**Author:** ![DudleyGarrett](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/d/d9b06d/32.png) [@DudleyGarrett](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/DudleyGarrett)\ **Post date:** [April 25, 2009, 3:30am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/the-office-broke-open-spoilers/494175/93 "2009-04-25T03:30:45Z")
> [@choie](#): > > I couldn’t have loved this episode, or Michael’s character, any more – everything was sublime. That surprised, impressed, proud look Pam gave to the camera during Michael’s bitch-slap of Wallace? Is exactly the same look I had through much of this episode. > > I think if there’s anything one can say about Michael, it’s that he knows this company inside and out. Maybe he doesn’t get the technical details (like how to work a surplus), but I think there’s a part of him that does pay attention, almost on an unconscious level, and thus he was able to synthesize and utilize the info about the board’s upcoming meeting and how they’ll feel about the fact that their most profitable branch is bleeding. He’s the same way with his customers. It’s not enough to just know facts, such as who has a gay son and whose kid is into soccer. Michael consistently manages to remember and apparently _care_ that one client’s kid always wanted to try out for j.v., or that someone else’s daughter is allergic to hazel nuts, or that Dwight’s cousin has a tendency to fall into wells. > > Anyway, when Michael said no to the “second” offer of $60K and insisted on a _sales_ job for Pam, I was practically cheering. Yay for Pam and yay even for Ryan. Michael is extraordinarily loyal and in the end he does right by his people. > > Jim gets kudos too for running after Dwight and finding a strategy to make Dwight look nuts in front of Charles. Jim’s been annoying me for a while, but here he was absolutely second MVP. > > Third favorite character this ep? Phyllis! I couldn’t be_lieve_ she had the balls to say to David, “maybe if you’d just accepted his calls we wouldn’t be in this mess.” And to David’s credit, he just acknowledged the truth in this statement. He’s really a great character – sure, he’s a corporate putz, but they’ve never made him a mustache-twirling villain. He’s a supervisor with actual humility, which is rare, and keeps him somewhat likeable and sympathetic, even when acting as an antagonist. The actor’s terrific, so natural and down-to-earth. (Reminds me of Sidney Pollack.) > > Like others I would’ve liked to see this story last a little while longer, but otherwise I have no complaints whatsoever. This arc has been uniformly fabulous. I agree 100% about David Wallace. He’s always been a great guy. ---
**Author:** ![MyFootsZZZ](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/myfootszzz/32/12580_2.png) [@MyFootsZZZ](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/MyFootsZZZ)\ **Post date:** [April 25, 2009, 3:34am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/the-office-broke-open-spoilers/494175/94 "2009-04-25T03:34:45Z")
I’m going to say, if I was forced to only ever see one of the two versions it would be the US version. I don’t know if that makes it my ‘favorite’. I like them both, and never felt it was fair to compare the two. I mean, what if the US version starts to suck? How can my mind be made up when one version has, what – fifteen or sixteen episodes? And the other version’s filmed it’s 100th episode with another season on the way? I think the worst episode of the US version sucks worse than the worse of the UK version, but that makes sense. ---
**Author:** ![MyFootsZZZ](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/myfootszzz/32/12580_2.png) [@MyFootsZZZ](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/MyFootsZZZ)\ **Post date:** [April 25, 2009, 3:53am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/the-office-broke-open-spoilers/494175/95 "2009-04-25T03:53:38Z")
> [@choie](#): > > Third favorite character this ep? Phyllis! I couldn’t be_lieve_ she had the balls to say to David, “maybe if you’d just accepted his calls we wouldn’t be in this mess.” I agree with everything you say pretty much. Phyllis is actually quite blunt. Off of the top of my head; “What about a one-night stand?”, “Are you calling me a ho?”, “If a client calls Please select the salesperson at random, and not the one you’re sleeping with this month.”, “Boys don’t make passes at girls with glasses.”, “You know I know… you know ‘they’ know”. ---
**Author:** ![msmith537](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/m/d9b06d/32.png) [@msmith537](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/msmith537)\ **Post date:** [April 25, 2009, 6:32am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/the-office-broke-open-spoilers/494175/96 "2009-04-25T06:32:57Z")
> [@HelloNinja](#): > > I took her comment in the numbers crunching scene to be fairly sarcastic towards Michael. Yeah, it was supposed to be sarcastic. I did like it when their accounting guy was like “crunch” when he pressed the refresh button. Honestly, I liked everything about this episode. Michael was clueless, but managed to show his rare sparks of competence that justifies his position. Davis really isn’t malicious. I think he’s just a relatively weak and self absorbed manager. ( **gigi** - David IS weak. I have not gotten the impression that anything he does is based on a preconceived plan or strategy.) **quixotic78** , I think the problem is they idiotify Michael Scott too much. I mean how does anyone over 10 years old not know what a surplus is? I think this weeks episode is exactly how is character SHOULD be. Awkward and unsure, but able to pull it together when it counts. ---
**Author:** ![cactus\_waltz](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/c/74df32/32.png) [@cactus\_waltz](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/cactus_waltz)\ **Post date:** [April 25, 2009, 9:45am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/the-office-broke-open-spoilers/494175/97 "2009-04-25T09:45:44Z")
Michael’s \*got \*to be able to pull it together when it counts – there is no credibility otherwise, concidering the length of the US Office. David Brent was incompetent, but ultimately he suffered for it and it only took 16 episodes. ---
**Author:** ![tnetennba](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/t/7993a0/32.png) [@tnetennba](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/tnetennba)\ **Post date:** [April 25, 2009, 12:17pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/the-office-broke-open-spoilers/494175/98 "2009-04-25T12:17:23Z")
Twelve, actually. ---
**Author:** ![SenorBeef](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/senorbeef/32/2220_2.png) [@SenorBeef](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/SenorBeef)\ **Post date:** [April 25, 2009, 12:22pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/the-office-broke-open-spoilers/494175/99 "2009-04-25T12:22:24Z")
This feels like it’s supposed to be a comeuppance episode - Michael strikes back at those who mistreated him - but he wasn’t really mistreated. When he confronted David Wallace about the party, David said “you’re right, I’m sorry, let me make this better” and Michael decided to quit anyway. You could say he was insulted by David trying to ignore him all day, but that doesn’t really justify it. David is in a position of having to deal with a bizarre seemingly incompetant guy who’s always causing trouble yet somehow manages to get good numbers out of his branch. Trying to ignore him and let him run the business seems like a reasonable way to go. I just didn’t get the feeling that Michael got back at anyone, since he was the cause of the whole situation anyway. ---
**Author:** ![Rubystreak](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/r/e5b9ba/32.png) [@Rubystreak](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Rubystreak)\ **Post date:** [April 25, 2009, 2:23pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/the-office-broke-open-spoilers/494175/100 "2009-04-25T14:23:21Z")
> [@SenorBeef](#): > > This feels like it’s supposed to be a comeuppance episode - Michael strikes back at those who mistreated him - but he wasn’t really mistreated. I think he felt the presence of Charles as a mistreatment, and the removal of Holly. In the case of Charles, Michael runs the most successful branch of DM, but has to have some uptight, smug asshole hovering over him, judging and criticizing him and his workers. That would feel like mistreatment to me. [Previous page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/the-office-broke-open-spoilers/494175.md?page=4) [Next page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/the-office-broke-open-spoilers/494175.md?page=6)