# The Office: "Did I Stutter?" (open spoilers) **URL:** \ **Category:** Cafe Society\ **Created:** [May 2, 2008, 1:37am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/the-office-did-i-stutter-open-spoilers/447697 "2008-05-02T01:37:55Z")\ **Posts on this page:** 20\ **Page:** 7
**Author:** ![Acsenray](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/acsenray/32/4519_2.png) [@Acsenray](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Acsenray)\ **Post date:** [May 6, 2008, 2:25pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/the-office-did-i-stutter-open-spoilers/447697/121 "2008-05-06T14:25:15Z")
[QUOTE=Indygrrl] I’d need more than one night’s partying to call someone a drug addict. Plenty of people do coke recreationally without being addicts. [/QUOTE] Do they also admit out loud to having a drug problem, like Ryan did? ---
**Author:** ![Indygrrl](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/i/58f4c7/32.png) [@Indygrrl](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Indygrrl)\ **Post date:** [May 6, 2008, 2:53pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/the-office-did-i-stutter-open-spoilers/447697/122 "2008-05-06T14:53:10Z")
[QUOTE=acsenray] Do they also admit out loud to having a drug problem, like Ryan did? [/QUOTE] Ok, now that would lead me to believe he had a drug problem. But, I must have missed that part. 😉 ---
**Author:** ![Hal\_Briston](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/h/a9a28c/32.png) [@Hal\_Briston](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Hal_Briston)\ **Post date:** [May 6, 2008, 2:54pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/the-office-did-i-stutter-open-spoilers/447697/123 "2008-05-06T14:54:59Z")
[QUOTE=D\_Odds] What you will need, then, is lessons on TV shorthand. This is a farcical sitcom, not a family drama showing the the downward spiral of recreational use to fatal addiction. The fact that so much time was spent on it shows that it is not “recreational”. [/QUOTE] Bingo…unless a character clearly says “This is my first time doing \”, then that character is a habitual user. It’s like having a female character casually mention that her stomach is upset in the morning – that can _only_ mean that the character is pregnant. ---
**Author:** ![Indygrrl](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/i/58f4c7/32.png) [@Indygrrl](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Indygrrl)\ **Post date:** [May 6, 2008, 3:19pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/the-office-did-i-stutter-open-spoilers/447697/124 "2008-05-06T15:19:19Z")
[QUOTE=Hal Briston] Bingo…unless a character clearly says “This is my first time doing \”, then that character is a habitual user. [/QUOTE] I can’t think of any other sitcom that had a drug user come up like that. But I can remember a few alcoholics. ---
**Author:** ![D\_Odds](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/d_odds/32/2882_2.png) [@D\_Odds](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/D_Odds)\ **Post date:** [May 6, 2008, 3:32pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/the-office-did-i-stutter-open-spoilers/447697/125 "2008-05-06T15:32:51Z")
[QUOTE=Indygrrl] Ok, now that would lead me to believe he had a drug problem. But, I must have missed that part. 😉 [/QUOTE] Well, he only asked about a friend, so it couldn’t be about him. Right? 🆒 ---
**Author:** ![Diogenes\_the\_Cynic](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/d/e99b99/32.png) [@Diogenes\_the\_Cynic](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Diogenes_the_Cynic)\ **Post date:** [May 6, 2008, 4:06pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/the-office-did-i-stutter-open-spoilers/447697/126 "2008-05-06T16:06:52Z")
[QUOTE=Indygrrl] I’d need more than one night’s partying to call someone a drug addict. Plenty of people do coke recreationally without being addicts. I thought maybe he was showing up to work like that, or some other evidence that his drug use was problematic. [/QUOTE] Practically every cokehead I’ve ever known claimed they weren’t addicts and that they were just doing it “recreationally” (is there any _other_ way to use it?). Cocaine addiction develops very quickly and not that many people can do it for long without getting strung out. I don’t care what they tell you. Secondly, it’s a TV show. The implication that the character was strung out was clear and unambiguous in television terms. When a TV character keeps going into the bathroom and coming out rubbing his nose, that’s television code for “drug problem.” Sitcoms do not show characters casually using cocaine without having a problem with it. (as a matter of fact, I believe there is some kind of FCC rule which states that drug use cannot be shown in a positive light or shown without consequences). And just in case there was any doubt, Ryan was shown asking about a fictional “friend” with a drug problem. ---
**Author:** ![Mikemike2](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/mikemike2/32/305_2.png) [@Mikemike2](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Mikemike2)\ **Post date:** [May 6, 2008, 4:15pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/the-office-did-i-stutter-open-spoilers/447697/127 "2008-05-06T16:15:41Z")
I was wondering if the warning that Ryan gave to Jim was official, in that it was going to be written up and be part of Jim’s record. If it was, then it was really awful to treat it in such a casual manner, not backed up by any specific incident. ---
**Author:** ![msmith537](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/m/d9b06d/32.png) [@msmith537](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/msmith537)\ **Post date:** [May 6, 2008, 4:19pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/the-office-did-i-stutter-open-spoilers/447697/128 "2008-05-06T16:19:24Z")
[QUOTE=Mikemike2] I was wondering if the warning that Ryan gave to Jim was official, in that it was going to be written up and be part of Jim’s record. If it was, then it was really awful to treat it in such a casual manner, not backed up by any specific incident. [/QUOTE] Well this is the same Ryan who wanted to outsource Kelly’s job to India (yes..she’s Indian too…I know it’s confusing). ---
**Author:** ![choie](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/choie/32/7829_2.png) [@choie](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/choie)\ **Post date:** [May 6, 2008, 4:24pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/the-office-did-i-stutter-open-spoilers/447697/129 "2008-05-06T16:24:54Z")
Thanks for the praise, **Liberal**! Wasn’t expecting that. 🙂 **Indygrrl** , in addition to Ryan’s acknowledgement in the clubbing episode (one has to presume his question about “a friend” was a ruse … I mean, it came out of nowhere except his obvious unhappiness and concern), Ryan has been acting hyped-up for some time, especially his rambling business jargon mishmash in _Launch Party_: > [@](#): > > RYAN (is in a huge corner office, talking fast and confident): Yeah. I created a website. Look, at the end of the day, apples to apples flying at 30,000 feet. This is a paper company and I don’t want us to get lost in the weeds or into a beauty contest– > > VOICE OF BOSS: I told you I don’t want you doing these things in here. You can use your own office or do it in the hall. > > (QUICK CUT TO NEW, SMALLER OFFICE) > > RYAN (still very fast): Convergence! Viral marketing! We’re going guerrilla! We’re takin’ it to the streets while keeping an eye on the street – Wall Street. I don’t want to reinvent the wheel here. In other words, it is what it is. (meaningfully) Buyin’ paper just became fun. Admittedly he could just be drinking too much Red Bull. But coupled with his behavior at the night club and in his wee NYC apartment, I think the writers are making it pretty clear. ---
**Author:** ![Justin\_Bailey](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/justin_bailey/32/8792_2.png) [@Justin\_Bailey](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Justin_Bailey)\ **Post date:** [May 6, 2008, 5:11pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/the-office-did-i-stutter-open-spoilers/447697/130 "2008-05-06T17:11:39Z")
[QUOTE=Diogenes the Cynic] (as a matter of fact, I believe there is some kind of FCC rule which states that drug use cannot be shown in a positive light or shown without consequences) [/QUOTE] That 70s Show and it’s constant pot use (with no consequences) says hello. ---
**Author:** ![Diogenes\_the\_Cynic](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/d/e99b99/32.png) [@Diogenes\_the\_Cynic](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Diogenes_the_Cynic)\ **Post date:** [May 6, 2008, 5:41pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/the-office-did-i-stutter-open-spoilers/447697/131 "2008-05-06T17:41:57Z")
[QUOTE=Justin\_Bailey] That 70s Show and it’s constant pot use (with no consequences) says hello. [/QUOTE] Maybe they changed it or maybe it was a self-imposed standard, but I could swear there at least _used_ to be some kind of prohibition (self-imposed or otherwise) on showing positive depictions of drug use. I can’t find it by Googling, though. Oh, well. ---
**Author:** ![Pashnish\_Ewing](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/p/8797f3/32.png) [@Pashnish\_Ewing](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Pashnish_Ewing)\ **Post date:** [May 6, 2008, 5:58pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/the-office-did-i-stutter-open-spoilers/447697/132 "2008-05-06T17:58:21Z")
[QUOTE=Justin\_Bailey] That 70s Show and it’s constant pot use (with no consequences) says hello. [/QUOTE] I’m not too familiar with **That 70s Show** , but they never actually talk about smoking pot, do they? I thought it was all inferred. ---
**Author:** ![Skald\_the\_Rhymer](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/s/ecccb3/32.png) [@Skald\_the\_Rhymer](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Skald_the_Rhymer)\ **Post date:** [May 6, 2008, 6:01pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/the-office-did-i-stutter-open-spoilers/447697/133 "2008-05-06T18:01:25Z")
[QUOTE=Pashnish Ewing] I’m not too familiar with **That 70s Show** , but they never actually talk about smoking pot, do they? I thought it was all inferred. [/QUOTE] When the four main guys (and sometimes Donna) are in the circle in the basement, they’re generally smoking pot. But I disagree that there weren’t consequences. Eric & Steven were always afraid of Red and Kitty finding their stash, and Steven gets arrested when he claims that Jackie’s pot is his. ---
**Author:** ![Renob](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/r/8c91f0/32.png) [@Renob](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Renob)\ **Post date:** [May 6, 2008, 6:06pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/the-office-did-i-stutter-open-spoilers/447697/134 "2008-05-06T18:06:25Z")
[QUOTE=cactus waltz] As some here takes an understanding stance towards Ryan’s behaviour, I think Toby’s, as well, is human and understandable. Toby has been harassed by Michael since day one for no reason at all. I am not buying that Michael somehow foresaw Toby’s present change of character, he was simply cruel to Toby and poked at very sensitive spots in an unprofessional way. [/quote] Well, we don’t know what came first. When the series started Michael’s hatred of Toby was established but was that a result of Toby’s actions before the show started? I tend to think that Michael’s treatment of Toby isn’t entirely irrational. Remember the episode earlier this season when Jim was in charge and Toby came in his office, whining about his birthday? As Jim expressed, Toby can be frustrating. Perhaps a few years of that – as well as the fact that Toby reports directly to corporate, not Michael – explains a lot of Michael’s hatred. > [@](#): > > Up until this point, Toby has showcased to be one of the most rational and level-headed in the staff. Unfortunately, he also has a broken soul. He seemingly has few to no friends, he is divorced, he is alienated by his boss and his love for Pam is unrequited. This all doesn’t excuse his jerkish behaviour (frankly, I am more upset by his act to ask Michael to reprimand Stanley, because that decision just didn’t seem like something that should have been affected by Toby’s own personal state), but it makes it less evil in my eyes. Sorry, but Toby’s pathetic life may be the result of his actions. Perhaps no one can get along with him. The jerkish behavior he’s exhibiting now may have existed all along and explain his lack of friends, his divorce, his hatred by Michael, etc. ---
**Author:** ![Baldwin](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/baldwin/32/7264_2.png) [@Baldwin](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Baldwin)\ **Post date:** [May 6, 2008, 6:57pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/the-office-did-i-stutter-open-spoilers/447697/135 "2008-05-06T18:57:34Z")
I love when you can see Darryl mentally how much “Black” nonsense he can get Michael to believe. “Fluffy-fingers” was pretty good. Actually, I’d like to see an episode that just shows a day in the life of the warehouse crew; I’d like to see what kind of boss Darryl is. ---
**Author:** ![cactus\_waltz](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/c/74df32/32.png) [@cactus\_waltz](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/cactus_waltz)\ **Post date:** [May 6, 2008, 10:05pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/the-office-did-i-stutter-open-spoilers/447697/136 "2008-05-06T22:05:28Z")
[QUOTE=Renob] Sorry, but Toby’s pathetic life may be the result of his actions. Perhaps no one can get along with him. The jerkish behavior he’s exhibiting now may have existed all along and explain his lack of friends, his divorce, his hatred by Michael, etc. [/QUOTE] You’re right. I didn’t concider that. It was just that he came off as really likeable and rational in the first seasons that led me to believe he was treated unfairly. Also, I suppose, that fact that he’s HR – typically a branch that requires social competence. ---
**Author:** ![choie](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/choie/32/7829_2.png) [@choie](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/choie)\ **Post date:** [May 7, 2008, 12:41am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/the-office-did-i-stutter-open-spoilers/447697/137 "2008-05-07T00:41:30Z")
> [@](#): > > Also, I suppose, that fact that he’s HR – typically a branch that requires social competence. HA! What episode was this joke in? 😃 (Just kidding, but seriously, I’ve met several HR people in my career who weren’t resources and barely counted as human. Social competence doesn’t appear to be a requirement of the position.) I think Michael dislikes Toby primarily for the obvious reason: Michael sees him as a spoilsport for his absurd shenanigans. However, I also have a rather bizarre sense that beyond all the truckloads of bluster, insecurity, ignorance and immaturity, Michael often displays childlike, almost preternatural moments of insight. He doesn’t come to these moments intellectually, but accidentally. He’s the type to slip on the banana peel of life only to land on the truth. In other words, though he hates Toby on a gut level and comes up with all sorts of scattershot reasons – which almost no one (including the audience) believes or pays much attention to – Michael has actually seen through Toby’s passive aggressive, envious and surprisingly vindictive self. After spending so much time blurting out only the over-the-top TobyHate, Michael just can’t articulate a realistic version of Toby’s flaws. He’s like the boy who cried wolf. Or at least the boy who cried “That’s what she said.” ---
**Author:** ![Acsenray](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/acsenray/32/4519_2.png) [@Acsenray](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Acsenray)\ **Post date:** [May 7, 2008, 12:44am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/the-office-did-i-stutter-open-spoilers/447697/138 "2008-05-07T00:44:32Z")
Having seen the third deleted scene, I am pretty certain that Toby had nothing to do with Jim’s reprimand. It was all Ryan. Furthermore, I don’t think that this one small incident, even if Toby was slightly involved, makes Toby into a “pathetic” or “jerkish” person all-round. I think the deleted scene is pretty unambiguous. Going after Jim was not Toby’s idea. The only reason he fixated on the “Pam” stuff in his talking head is because that’s what his own mind is stuck on. All of the characters are shown to be well-rounded. Which means that they don’t always show their best sides. No matter who you are, there’s someone who thinks you’re a jerk for something you’ve done. Jim can be a jerk, Dwight can be a jerk, Michael can be a jerk, and Toby can be a jerk. But that doesn’t undermine the fact that Toby and Jim are both pretty decent people. ---
**Author:** ![Hal\_Briston](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/h/a9a28c/32.png) [@Hal\_Briston](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Hal_Briston)\ **Post date:** [May 7, 2008, 1:17am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/the-office-did-i-stutter-open-spoilers/447697/139 "2008-05-07T01:17:50Z")
Almost forgot to mention just how disappointed I am in Jim. My respect for him has dropped drastically. Eagles fan…ugh… ---
**Author:** ![pepperlandgirl](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/p/f17d59/32.png) [@pepperlandgirl](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/pepperlandgirl)\ **Post date:** [May 7, 2008, 1:18am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/the-office-did-i-stutter-open-spoilers/447697/140 "2008-05-07T01:18:25Z")
[QUOTE=choie] In other words, though he hates Toby on a gut level and comes up with all sorts of scattershot reasons – which almost no one (including the audience) believes or pays much attention to – Michael has actually seen through Toby’s passive aggressive, envious and surprisingly vindictive self. After spending so much time blurting out only the over-the-top TobyHate, Michael just can’t articulate a realistic version of Toby’s flaws. [/QUOTE] This makes a lot of sense to me, mainly because of Michael’s line to Toby in early S2. “I hate so much about the way you choose to be.” [Previous page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/the-office-did-i-stutter-open-spoilers/447697.md?page=6) [Next page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/the-office-did-i-stutter-open-spoilers/447697.md?page=8)