# The Office; Niagara 10/08/09 (open spoilers) **URL:** \ **Category:** Cafe Society\ **Created:** [October 9, 2009, 12:14am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/the-office-niagara-10-08-09-open-spoilers/513126 "2009-10-09T00:14:36Z")\ **Posts on this page:** 20\ **Page:** 2
**Author:** ![MPB\_in\_Salt\_Lake](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/m/c0e974/32.png) [@MPB\_in\_Salt\_Lake](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/MPB_in_Salt_Lake)\ **Post date:** [October 9, 2009, 3:07am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/the-office-niagara-10-08-09-open-spoilers/513126/21 "2009-10-09T03:07:16Z")
> [@drpepper](#): > > Some good moments, sure; but I fear this is the jump the shark ep. > > Too many characters were waaaaaaaay over the top in this one; they were all Homer Simpson-ish to some degree. And that feel-good dance number at the church was something straight out of a Disney movie. I have to give it a thumbs down. I gotta agree that while there were a few funny minor bits, overall it was pretty weak. I think The Office (as an entity) has come to believe its own hype, and is becoming far too self congratulatory. ---
**Author:** ![MyFootsZZZ](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/myfootszzz/32/12580_2.png) [@MyFootsZZZ](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/MyFootsZZZ)\ **Post date:** [October 9, 2009, 3:07am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/the-office-niagara-10-08-09-open-spoilers/513126/22 "2009-10-09T03:07:32Z")
This episode seems to have suffered from some of the same minor disconnection’s from the show’s “normal” formula as the Super Bowl episode. The Office has, (had), some level of consistency which seems to be progressively being ignored, or has just diluted over time. Everyone seemed to be a caricature of themselves, (I mean, almost the whole office can’t see puke and not doing it themselves?). It just didn’t feel like I’m watching the same show. Even people outside the office seemed ‘sitcomy’. Why would Jim hang with Mike and Dwight before his wedding? I know he couldn’t be with Pam, but… I liked the long roads of character development of yore. It’s a testament that Jim and Pam’s ‘will they/wont they’ lasted for as long as it did, and the show had to overcome that. Likewise with the situation that it’s branch may close, or Michael and Jan’s relationship, Angela learning NOT to be a complete ass, and her romance with Dwight. Even Kelly and Ryan. But now the writers are developing situation’s more than solutions. There are too many seed’s planted and not ever flower’s fully bloomed. Where’s Kevin’s Girl? They did a whole story about him asking her out? It’s not say she should be there, but her absence wasn’t explained. Pam’s mom didn’t like a lot like Pam’s… um, ‘other’ mom. I’m pretty sure we saw the back of Pam’s father’s head, and I’m pretty sure it had hair on it. These are minor things, but despite the problems I have about some of the off-the-wall and unrealistic things about the show, I admired the pacing of the biggest story arcs continuity in minor things. Because this IS supposed to be a documentary. Not that I didn’t get some kind of weird joy seeing them dance down the isle. I guess it’s a testament to Jim and Pam to know things may get out of hand and have a separate, uninterrupted wedding. But overall I was expecting something a lot different. ---
**Author:** ![Diogenes\_the\_Cynic](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/d/e99b99/32.png) [@Diogenes\_the\_Cynic](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Diogenes_the_Cynic)\ **Post date:** [October 9, 2009, 3:07am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/the-office-niagara-10-08-09-open-spoilers/513126/23 "2009-10-09T03:07:44Z")
> [@threeorange](#): > > The actress playing Pam’s mother looked really familiar. Does anyone know who she was? [Linda Purl](http://www.imdb.com/name/nm0700909/) ---
**Author:** ![MyFootsZZZ](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/myfootszzz/32/12580_2.png) [@MyFootsZZZ](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/MyFootsZZZ)\ **Post date:** [October 9, 2009, 3:16am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/the-office-niagara-10-08-09-open-spoilers/513126/24 "2009-10-09T03:16:37Z")
> [@alphaboi867](#): > > I’d really like to see this become a recurring arc somehow. Was Stanley the only one who brought a spouse/partner? It seemed kind of odd that Phyllis showed up without Bob Vance of Vance Refrigeration. Vance was there. Oh, and when’s Dwight been good with women…? I’m sure I can think of many examples, but the ‘edit’ window closes soon… ---
**Author:** ![drpepper](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/d/8baadc/32.png) [@drpepper](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/drpepper)\ **Post date:** [October 9, 2009, 3:22am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/the-office-niagara-10-08-09-open-spoilers/513126/25 "2009-10-09T03:22:08Z")
> [@MyFootsZZZ](#): > > This episode seems to have suffered from some of the same minor disconnection’s from the show’s “normal” formula as the Super Bowl episode. The Office has, (had), some level of consistency which seems to be progressively being ignored, or has just diluted over time. Everyone seemed to be a caricature of themselves, (I mean, almost the whole office can’t see puke and not doing it themselves?). It just didn’t feel like I’m watching the same show. Even people outside the office seemed ‘sitcomy’. Why would Jim hang with Mike and Dwight before his wedding? I know he couldn’t be with Pam, but… > > I liked the long roads of character development of yore. It’s a testament that Jim and Pam’s ‘will they/wont they’ lasted for as long as it did, and the show had to overcome that. Likewise with the situation that it’s branch may close, or Michael and Jan’s relationship, Angela learning NOT to be a complete ass, and her romance with Dwight. Even Kelly and Ryan. But now the writers are developing situation’s more than solutions. There are too many seed’s planted and not ever flower’s fully bloomed. > > Where’s Kevin’s Girl? They did a whole story about him asking her out? It’s not say she should be there, but her absence wasn’t explained. Pam’s mom didn’t like a lot like Pam’s… um, ‘other’ mom. I’m pretty sure we saw the back of Pam’s father’s head, and I’m pretty sure it had hair on it. These are minor things, but despite the problems I have about some of the off-the-wall and unrealistic things about the show, I admired the pacing of the biggest story arcs continuity in minor things. Because this IS supposed to be a documentary. > > Not that I didn’t get some kind of weird joy seeing them dance down the isle. I guess it’s a testament to Jim and Pam to know things may get out of hand and have a separate, uninterrupted wedding. But overall I was expecting something a lot different. I agree with nearly every word of this. Caricature of themselves, that’s the term I was looking for before. You are dead on about the writers creating “situations” rather than giving love to the extended story arc that has made the show so good in the past. It seemed to come up again and again in this episode. Example: Dwight pulling Michael away from the hot chick because he found “twins”. Was it funny? Yeah, kind of. It was a sort-of kind-of typical example of Dwight’s doofishness (although slightly over the top; Dwight capping off the scene by saying, “Yeah, I love a good set of twins”: seemed really lame and sitcom-y). It was a stand-alone gag, a sight gag, and didn’t really add anything except to show how whacky Dwight is. And the whole Kevin-shoes subplot was just stupid. Having the exact expository speech from the desk guy to set it up was flat out contrived-sounding and, again, sitcom-y. I mean, I have always enjoyed the Kevin character. In small doses, you get a good well-rounded picture of what kind of guy he is: an accountant, but a little clueless. A musician, but a little socially awkward. But for God’s sake, he’s not _retarded_ (prior episode misunderstanding involving Holly, which was masterfully played, not withstanding), and wearing Kleenex boxes instead of shoes was probably the most irritating thing for me. ---
**Author:** ![AlsoNamedBort](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/alsonamedbort/32/3213_2.png) [@AlsoNamedBort](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/AlsoNamedBort)\ **Post date:** [October 9, 2009, 3:29am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/the-office-niagara-10-08-09-open-spoilers/513126/26 "2009-10-09T03:29:34Z")
> [@MyFootsZZZ](#): > > Oh, and when’s Dwight been good with women…? Wasn’t he a hit with the ladies when he and Michael went to the nightclub with Ryan? ---
**Author:** ![MyFootsZZZ](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/myfootszzz/32/12580_2.png) [@MyFootsZZZ](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/MyFootsZZZ)\ **Post date:** [October 9, 2009, 3:35am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/the-office-niagara-10-08-09-open-spoilers/513126/27 "2009-10-09T03:35:56Z")
I don’t know… He may have had some good moments, but there have been bad ones too, (the hot hand-bag girl). Michael’s conection with Pam’s mother didn’t seem to build up at all… and this is AFTER he makes a tottal fool of himself. ---
**Author:** ![Diogenes\_the\_Cynic](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/d/e99b99/32.png) [@Diogenes\_the\_Cynic](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Diogenes_the_Cynic)\ **Post date:** [October 9, 2009, 3:44am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/the-office-niagara-10-08-09-open-spoilers/513126/28 "2009-10-09T03:44:59Z")
At least we’re past the wedding episode, which probably never had much of a chance anyway. Maybe we can get back to more conventional, workplace storylines now. Of course, we’ll still have to endure an insipid childbirth episode. Let me guess – Pam will suddenly go into labor in a wacky situation nowhere near the hospital. Five bucks says Michael will deliver the baby in a stuck elevator. ---
**Author:** ![AlsoNamedBort](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/alsonamedbort/32/3213_2.png) [@AlsoNamedBort](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/AlsoNamedBort)\ **Post date:** [October 9, 2009, 3:51am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/the-office-niagara-10-08-09-open-spoilers/513126/29 "2009-10-09T03:51:58Z")
> [@Diogenes\_the\_Cynic](#): > > Of course, we’ll still have to endure an insipid childbirth episode. Let me guess – Pam will suddenly go into labor in a wacky situation nowhere near the hospital. Five bucks says Michael will deliver the baby in a stuck elevator. Except for tonight’s episode (which really had to be as sitcom-y as possible), the writers have been pretty good at avoiding sitcom cliches, especially with the Pam and Jim storylines. Most of their major events (first kiss, the proposal, the pregnancy) have always been seen from a distance and away from the film crew. ---
**Author:** ![Waffle\_Decider](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/w/77aa72/32.png) [@Waffle\_Decider](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Waffle_Decider)\ **Post date:** [October 9, 2009, 3:55am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/the-office-niagara-10-08-09-open-spoilers/513126/30 "2009-10-09T03:55:26Z")
All the puking reminded me of this scene from [Family Guy](http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=4eYSpIz2FjU) (YouTube video). I think the episode started out fine, but it kind of went downhill from there as the story got less and less believable. I refuse to believe Dwight can get laid that easily. Do hot chicks really fall for weirdo like that in reality? I thought it was mentioned very early on in the show that Stanley’s wife is white? Or is that the lady he was having an affair with at the wedding? ---
**Author:** ![MyFootsZZZ](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/myfootszzz/32/12580_2.png) [@MyFootsZZZ](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/MyFootsZZZ)\ **Post date:** [October 9, 2009, 3:58am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/the-office-niagara-10-08-09-open-spoilers/513126/31 "2009-10-09T03:58:15Z")
> [@AlsoNamedBort](#): > > Except for tonight’s episode (which really had to be as sitcom-y as possible), the writers have been pretty good at avoiding sitcom cliches, especially with the Pam and Jim storylines. Most of their major events (first kiss, the proposal, the pregnancy) have always been seen from a distance and away from the film crew. Yes, but it starts to become predictable in being unpredictable. The writers build us up for a big proposal, but it’s wrecked, we get a sweet, but wet one instead. The writers send Pam to art school where she makes new friends, one male and seems to like her, but she fails and has to stay – oh, but she comes back instead. Jim buys a house… Pam goes through the entire thing not saying a word, we all fear she hates it… OH, she loves it. Pam and Jim, want to elope… but then want a ‘wedding, wedding’… And Michael messes it up with a speech and trying to be the center of everything. ---
**Author:** ![AlsoNamedBort](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/alsonamedbort/32/3213_2.png) [@AlsoNamedBort](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/AlsoNamedBort)\ **Post date:** [October 9, 2009, 3:58am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/the-office-niagara-10-08-09-open-spoilers/513126/32 "2009-10-09T03:58:31Z")
> [@Waffle\_Decider](#): > > I thought it was mentioned very early on in the show that Stanley’s wife is white? Or is that the lady he was having an affair with at the wedding? It was Cynthia, the woman he was having an affair with. ---
**Author:** ![AuntiePam](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/a/f19dbf/32.png) [@AuntiePam](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/AuntiePam)\ **Post date:** [October 9, 2009, 4:01am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/the-office-niagara-10-08-09-open-spoilers/513126/33 "2009-10-09T04:01:41Z")
Yeah, I don’t think they’ll go that route with the baby either. But I’ll be upset if Michael is anywhere **near** the delivery room. We know he’ll try, but I hope Jim and Pam stand up to him. There’s gotta be **some** realism in this show. ---
**Author:** ![hajario](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/hajario/32/171_2.png) [@hajario](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/hajario)\ **Post date:** [October 9, 2009, 5:06am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/the-office-niagara-10-08-09-open-spoilers/513126/34 "2009-10-09T05:06:50Z")
> [@AlsoNamedBort](#): > > It was Cynthia, the woman he was having an affair with. Which is why Phyllis made a point to say that Stanly’s wife loved her hat when she saw it last. ---
**Author:** ![Dewey\_Finn](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/dewey_finn/32/4222_2.png) [@Dewey\_Finn](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Dewey_Finn)\ **Post date:** [October 9, 2009, 5:08am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/the-office-niagara-10-08-09-open-spoilers/513126/35 "2009-10-09T05:08:05Z")
Dumb question, but it appeared that the pre-wedding dinner _was_ the reception. I’ve only been to a few weddings, but the reception was always after the ceremony. Is this reversal common anywhere? (Actually I kind of think it’s a good idea.) And another dumb question. Did they have a second ceremony in front of everyone or just the one on the Maid of the Mist? ---
**Author:** ![casual\_lurker](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/c/898d66/32.png) [@casual\_lurker](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/casual_lurker)\ **Post date:** [October 9, 2009, 5:09am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/the-office-niagara-10-08-09-open-spoilers/513126/36 "2009-10-09T05:09:28Z")
> [@Diogenes\_the\_Cynic](#): > > Am I wrong, or was Pam’s sister the same actress who played the loony fundy chick on _True Blood_? Yup, that was the same chick. It was a pleasant surprise to see her pop up. ---
**Author:** ![The\_Shroud](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/t/439d5e/32.png) [@The\_Shroud](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/The_Shroud)\ **Post date:** [October 9, 2009, 5:33am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/the-office-niagara-10-08-09-open-spoilers/513126/37 "2009-10-09T05:33:52Z")
Wow. This show used to be subtle. Now it is not. ---
**Author:** ![Lakai](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/l/9de0a6/32.png) [@Lakai](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Lakai)\ **Post date:** [October 9, 2009, 5:42am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/the-office-niagara-10-08-09-open-spoilers/513126/38 "2009-10-09T05:42:01Z")
> [@Diogenes\_the\_Cynic](#): > > At least we’re past the wedding episode, which probably never had much of a chance anyway. Maybe we can get back to more conventional, workplace storylines now. > > Of course, we’ll still have to endure an insipid childbirth episode. Let me guess – Pam will suddenly go into labor in a wacky situation nowhere near the hospital. Five bucks says Michael will deliver the baby in a stuck elevator. I thought it was as good as a wedding episode could be. I’m looking forward to the Office’s take on the wacky delivery episode. It seems that Youtube has surpassed sitcoms in coming up with creative wedding ceremonies. But it makes sense that Jim’s brothers would think it would be a good idea to copy the video. I laughed at Andy crying at the reception. And at Micheal’s explanation for why he didn’t give Pam and Jim cash. “I give them cash every week …” ---
**Author:** ![friedo](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/f/8edcca/32.png) [@friedo](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/friedo)\ **Post date:** [October 9, 2009, 6:28am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/the-office-niagara-10-08-09-open-spoilers/513126/39 "2009-10-09T06:28:46Z")
> [@Dewey\_Finn](#): > > Dumb question, but it appeared that the pre-wedding dinner _was_ the reception. I’ve only been to a few weddings, but the reception was always after the ceremony. Is this reversal common anywhere? (Actually I kind of think it’s a good idea.) Some weddings have a rehearsal dinner (big dinner the night before for everyone who came into town.) So I’m guessing it was that. > [@](#): > > And another dumb question. Did they have a second ceremony in front of everyone or just the one on the Maid of the Mist? I didn’t really understand what was going on there. ---
**Author:** ![Fernmeldetruppe](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/f/e99b99/32.png) [@Fernmeldetruppe](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Fernmeldetruppe)\ **Post date:** [October 9, 2009, 6:51am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/the-office-niagara-10-08-09-open-spoilers/513126/40 "2009-10-09T06:51:28Z")
It is no entirely clear, but I think they went on the Maid of the Mist and “got married” after they ran off, but before they got married in the church. Pam’s hair looked a lot drier during the dancing, though. When they first started showing the boat, I thought they were going after the wedding, but I think the editors were cutting back and forth in time. I actually enjoyed the episode and laughed out loud several times. I was happy to see all the office personnel get more than one line. I had seen the YouTube wedding, though, so I understood the context. [Previous page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/the-office-niagara-10-08-09-open-spoilers/513126.md?page=1) [Next page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/the-office-niagara-10-08-09-open-spoilers/513126.md?page=3)