# The Official Ivory-bill Is Alive Thread **URL:** \ **Category:** Miscellaneous and Personal Stuff I Must Share\ **Created:** [April 28, 2005, 12:03pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/the-official-ivory-bill-is-alive-thread/301524 "2005-04-28T12:03:21Z")\ **Posts on this page:** 10\ **Page:** 3
**Author:** ![Laughing\_Lagomorph](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/l/6bbea6/32.png) [@Laughing\_Lagomorph](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Laughing_Lagomorph)\ **Post date:** [April 30, 2005, 1:20am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/the-official-ivory-bill-is-alive-thread/301524/41 "2005-04-30T01:20:34Z")
> [@Ogre](#): > > Dude. I hope there was more to it than that. While I admit to not being a world-class expert on birding, I’m pretty OK…and I couldn’t have definitively ID’ed squat from that vid… I agree the video by itself is completely underwhelming. You really need to check out the _Science_ paper ([http://www.sciencemag.org/cgi/rapidpdf/1114103v1.pdf](http://www.sciencemag.org/cgi/rapidpdf/1114103v1.pdf)) to see all the evidence the authors have, and the analysis they subjected the video to. Pretty thorough, and they certainly seem convinced. Although someone on one of the birding lists I read stated rather sniffily that the evidence wouldn’t get a vote from any rare birds commitee he knew of. > [@AskNott](#): > > The fact that the IBW has evaded humans since 1939 probably says more about its reclusive habits than anything else. . Yes. And the fact that we drove the species to the very brink of extinction by destroying practically all of its preferred habitat, thereby greatly reducing the number of individuals that were there to be found. ---
**Author:** ![Scissorjack](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/s/c67d28/32.png) [@Scissorjack](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Scissorjack)\ **Post date:** [April 30, 2005, 12:38pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/the-official-ivory-bill-is-alive-thread/301524/42 "2005-04-30T12:38:36Z")
> [@Cartooniverse](#): > > Well, once the **Bachman’s Warbler** was revealed to be in truth the other well-known Maine native, the **King Fisher** , the hubbub settled down and everyone went back to tapping maple trees and shucking for clams. What do Bachman’s Warblers warble? “You Ain’t Seen Nothin’ Yet”? ---
**Author:** ![carnivorousplant](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/carnivorousplant/32/3563_2.png) [@carnivorousplant](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/carnivorousplant)\ **Post date:** [April 30, 2005, 6:51pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/the-official-ivory-bill-is-alive-thread/301524/43 "2005-04-30T18:51:46Z")
A link to info from [Arkansas Game and Fish](http://www.agfc.com/ivorybilled/index.html) including a map with suggested viewing areas. ---
**Author:** ![Kythereia](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/k/e8c25b/32.png) [@Kythereia](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Kythereia)\ **Post date:** [April 30, 2005, 7:44pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/the-official-ivory-bill-is-alive-thread/301524/44 "2005-04-30T19:44:02Z")
_glee!_ ---
**Author:** ![Cartooniverse](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/cartooniverse/32/3084_2.png) [@Cartooniverse](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Cartooniverse)\ **Post date:** [April 30, 2005, 9:56pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/the-official-ivory-bill-is-alive-thread/301524/45 "2005-04-30T21:56:21Z")
> [@Case Sensitive](#): > > What do Bachman’s Warblers warble? “You Ain’t Seen Nothin’ Yet”? \<--------------hilarity ensues. Please tell me nobody got my pun. -sniffle- ---
**Author:** ![Colibri](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/colibri/32/1841_2.png) [@Colibri](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Colibri)\ **Post date:** [May 1, 2005, 2:45am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/the-official-ivory-bill-is-alive-thread/301524/46 "2005-05-01T02:45:00Z")
> [@Laughing Lagomorph](#): > > Although someone on one of the birding lists I read stated rather sniffily that the evidence wouldn’t get a vote from any rare birds commitee he knew of. He doesn’t know what he’s talking about. I’m chair of a rare birds committee. A photo or video frame that shows a diagnostic field mark, even if poor quality and blurry, should be plenty good evidence for any committee - and as far as I can see the frames show diagnostic characters for Ivorybill. Great news. I’m just wondering how those guys kept it hush-hush for so long. ---
**Author:** ![Gymnopithys](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/g/fbc32d/32.png) [@Gymnopithys](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Gymnopithys)\ **Post date:** [May 1, 2005, 8:10am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/the-official-ivory-bill-is-alive-thread/301524/47 "2005-05-01T08:10:44Z")
What’s most amazing is that it’s happened not in Amazonia or Zimbabwe but in the US, a country teeming with birders ! ---
**Author:** ![Shirley\_Ujest](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/s/45deac/32.png) [@Shirley\_Ujest](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Shirley_Ujest)\ **Post date:** [May 1, 2005, 2:00pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/the-official-ivory-bill-is-alive-thread/301524/48 "2005-05-01T14:00:12Z")
Cool! I keep on hoping that the Passenger Pigeon will pop up again. I have no real idea why, as their colonies were huge and the noise and poop would have been astounding. Oh, that and the Dodo bird. ---
**Author:** ![Laughing\_Lagomorph](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/l/6bbea6/32.png) [@Laughing\_Lagomorph](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Laughing_Lagomorph)\ **Post date:** [May 1, 2005, 2:45pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/the-official-ivory-bill-is-alive-thread/301524/49 "2005-05-01T14:45:49Z")
> [@Colibri](#): > > He doesn’t know what he’s talking about. I’m chair of a rare birds committee. A photo or video frame that shows a diagnostic field mark, even if poor quality and blurry, should be plenty good evidence for any committee - and as far as I can see the frames show diagnostic characters for Ivorybill. > … FWIW I agree with you but this isn’t my field of expertise. Suppose the video evidence in this particular case didn’t exist. Are the accounts of several reputable observers (which they also have) generally considered convincing evidence for the prescence of a rare bird? ---
**Author:** ![Colibri](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/colibri/32/1841_2.png) [@Colibri](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Colibri)\ **Post date:** [May 1, 2005, 4:55pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/the-official-ivory-bill-is-alive-thread/301524/50 "2005-05-01T16:55:31Z")
> [@Laughing Lagomorph](#): > > FWIW I agree with you but this isn’t my field of expertise. > > Suppose the video evidence in this particular case didn’t exist. Are the accounts of several reputable observers (which they also have) generally considered convincing evidence for the prescence of a rare bird? It depends on the committee. The American Ornithologists’ Union (AOU), the major professional organization of ornithologists, requires physical evidence (specimen, photo, or sound recording) for full acceptance of occurence within North America. State rare bird committees generally will accept well-documented written reports by reliable observers. For example, here’s the procedures manual for the [Iowa Records Committee](http://www.iowabirds.org/iou/procedures.asp). > [@](#): > > The criteria for acceptance of records shall be that the bird is present and identified within Iowa, and the identification is beyond reasonable doubt . . . . “Beyond reasonable doubt” is the collective opinion of the committee members based on such factors as what was observed and/or heard, difficulty of identification, viewing conditions, physical evidence, probability of occurrence at the particular place and time, chain of evidence (firsthand, secondhand, etc.), whether notes were made promptly, and the experience and ability of the observers. Ultimately, members should base acceptance on what they can tell about the bird itself, weighing in the possible influence of the other factors. The record does not have to be perfect, just beyond reasonable doubt. Our records committee for Panama, which I chair, employs similar standards. Of course, anything that is not physically documented ultimately remains a matter of opinion. “Acceptable” records are just those that are considered valid according to the standards of the most experienced experts. Given that the authors on the Ivorybill paper include John Fitzpatrick and Van Remsen, two of the most-respected and prominent North American ornithologists, and that the paper has survived peer review for _Science_ magazine, which is extremely rigorous, one could hardly have a better endorsement of the validity of the sightings. [Previous page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/the-official-ivory-bill-is-alive-thread/301524.md?page=2)