# The Official MLB Offseason Thread **URL:** \ **Category:** The Game Room\ **Created:** [October 29, 2011, 2:39pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/the-official-mlb-offseason-thread/601185 "2011-10-29T14:39:24Z")\ **Posts on this page:** 20\ **Page:** 19
**Author:** ![RickJay](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/r/bb73d2/32.png) [@RickJay](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/RickJay)\ **Post date:** [December 23, 2011, 6:08pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/the-official-mlb-offseason-thread/601185/361 "2011-12-23T18:08:18Z")
> [@ElvisL1ves](#): > > And the pols aren’t going to give them a new stadium if their constituents have no reason to give a damn about them. Did they learn nothing from the Montreal fiasco? > > Plus, the Oakland/Alameda officials got so badly burned on the Raiders deal that they have every reason to be cautious about bending over for another team. The A’s are not seriously seeking a new stadium in Oakland. See above. They’re trying to move to San Jose. They even have a spot picked out and a name for the stadium, “Cisco Field.” Prior to that they were trying to move to Fremont. The position of Oakland and Alameda County isn’t relevant; the A’s don’t want to stay there. ---
**Author:** ![cmkeller](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/cmkeller/32/118_2.png) [@cmkeller](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/cmkeller)\ **Post date:** [December 23, 2011, 6:22pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/the-official-mlb-offseason-thread/601185/362 "2011-12-23T18:22:11Z")
RickJay: > [@](#): > > The Golden State Warriors play in Oakland, right next door to the A’s, but nobody in the world is a Warriors fan. Really? That’s a shame. The Warriors game I attended when my family and I took a trip to northern California was one of the most fun pro sports events I ever attended. Reasonably priced, too. > [@](#): > > If the A’s move to San Jose there’s not a doubt in my mind people in San Jose will start to adopt them as their hometown team. They certainly love their Sharks; you can’t get Sharks tickets at all, unless you’re willing to part with a limb. I don’t see how that follows. The Sharks are the ONLY hockey team in the Bay area. (Even if there were - and I find the idea preposterous - any hard-code Golden Seals fanatics who kept an allegiance to the team after it left the Bay Area, became the Barons and then merged with the North Stars, the creation Sharks technically represented the restoration of the Golden Seals being separated from the North Stars.) In the case of the A’s, if San Jose is already solid Giants territory, why assume these fans are ready to swap their fan jerseys? Has there been any indication that San Jose residents want a team distinct from San Francisco that they can call “theirs”? ---
**Author:** ![RickJay](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/r/bb73d2/32.png) [@RickJay](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/RickJay)\ **Post date:** [December 23, 2011, 7:18pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/the-official-mlb-offseason-thread/601185/363 "2011-12-23T19:18:37Z")
> [@cmkeller](#): > > Really? That’s a shame. The Warriors game I attended when my family and I took a trip to northern California was one of the most fun pro sports events I ever attended. Reasonably priced, too. I was just kidding. > [@](#): > > In the case of the A’s, if San Jose is already solid Giants territory, why assume these fans are ready to swap their fan jerseys? Has there been any indication that San Jose residents want a team distinct from San Francisco that they can call “theirs”? Some may and some may not. My point being that anyone who does - and surely some will - represents a real loss for the Giants. The Giants are not just posturing or being greedy; the A’s in San Jose will represent a very likely loss in revenue, and I don’t blame them for being opposed to the idea. ---
**Author:** ![cmkeller](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/cmkeller/32/118_2.png) [@cmkeller](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/cmkeller)\ **Post date:** [December 23, 2011, 7:30pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/the-official-mlb-offseason-thread/601185/364 "2011-12-23T19:30:49Z")
RickJay: > [@](#): > > I was just kidding. I obviously knew you weren’t saying that the Warriors genuinely have zero fans, but I took your statement to mean that Warriors basketball isn’t all that popular for Bay Area residents to follow. Is that not true? > [@](#): > > My point being that anyone who does - and surely some will - represents a real loss for the Giants…and I don’t blame them for being opposed to the idea. Oh, I agree with that. I just thought you were saying that San Jose residents were a certainty to become A’s fans en masse if the team were to move there. ---
**Author:** ![Mister\_Rik](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/mister_rik/32/491_2.png) [@Mister\_Rik](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Mister_Rik)\ **Post date:** [December 23, 2011, 8:43pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/the-official-mlb-offseason-thread/601185/365 "2011-12-23T20:43:09Z")
> [@NAF1138](#): > > He’s a Scott Boras client isn’t he? I think Boras’s MO is to have his players sign as late as possible so that the teams that want them have no other options. The problem for Fielder is that the teams that might be able to pay what he wants all have first base covered, and the teams that really need someone like Fielder don’t have the money. I wonder if, at some point, both teams and players are going to get tired of dealing with Scott Boras. ---
**Author:** ![RickJay](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/r/bb73d2/32.png) [@RickJay](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/RickJay)\ **Post date:** [December 23, 2011, 9:22pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/the-official-mlb-offseason-thread/601185/366 "2011-12-23T21:22:13Z")
> [@Mister\_Rik](#): > > I wonder if, at some point, both teams and players are going to get tired of dealing with Scott Boras. As famous as Boras is, he isn’t particularly difficult to deal with as agents go. Fans portray him as the devil incarnate, but there is nothing bad about Boras that you won’t find far worse in other agents. If anything, Boras is just refreshingly honest. Look up Albert Pujols’s agent, Dan Lozano, for a real peice of filth. ---
**Author:** ![mhendo](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/mhendo/32/3159_2.png) [@mhendo](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/mhendo)\ **Post date:** [December 23, 2011, 10:23pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/the-official-mlb-offseason-thread/601185/367 "2011-12-23T22:23:53Z")
> [@Mister\_Rik](#): > > I wonder if, at some point, both teams and players are going to get tired of dealing with Scott Boras. In addition to what **RickJay** said, why would players get sick of dealing with him? He consistently gets his clients big contracts, and by all accounts treats them well. As for the teams, their biggest consideration is not whether Boras is a nice guy or not; it’s whether they think the price they are playing for the player is a reflection of the player’s value to the team. I’m sure Boras drives a hard bargain, but he is able to do so precisely because he is dealing in a scarce resource with a high market value. No-one is holding a gun to the teams’ heads in these negotiations, and if they don’t think a particular player is worth what Boras is asking, they are free to pass on him. ---
**Author:** ![What\_Exit](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/what_exit/32/10652_2.png) [@What\_Exit](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/What_Exit)\ **Post date:** [December 23, 2011, 11:01pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/the-official-mlb-offseason-thread/601185/368 "2011-12-23T23:01:56Z")
> [@RickJay](#): > > As famous as Boras is, he isn’t particularly difficult to deal with as agents go. Fans portray him as the devil incarnate, but there is nothing bad about Boras that you won’t find far worse in other agents. If anything, Boras is just refreshingly honest. > > Look up Albert Pujols’s agent, Dan Lozano, for a real peice of filth. Not disagreeing on Boras, but what are the details on Lozano? I don’t know anything about him. ---
**Author:** ![ElvisL1ves](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/e/5daacb/32.png) [@ElvisL1ves](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/ElvisL1ves)\ **Post date:** [December 23, 2011, 11:02pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/the-official-mlb-offseason-thread/601185/369 "2011-12-23T23:02:58Z")
> [@RickJay](#): > > The A’s are not seriously seeking a new stadium in Oakland. See above. They’re trying to move to San Jose. They even have a spot picked out and a name for the stadium, “Cisco Field.” Prior to that they were trying to move to Fremont. > > The position of Oakland and Alameda County isn’t relevant; the A’s don’t want to stay there. See above. :dubious: I referred to “the pols”. That includes the ones in San Jose or anywhere. The fact that the ones in Oakland are already burned is the reason the A’s have to try their act elsewhere. But it’s the act that is badly chosen, not the targeted relocation site. Clear now? As for Boras, he’s only doing what his clients _hire him to do_ - get them every possible cent, regardless. The fact that he does so very effectively is not to his discredit. If you want to deplore somebody, deplore the players who go for every possible cent, regardless. Or, better yet, deplore the system that makes it possible to dismiss every other consideration. ---
**Author:** ![Hawkeyeop](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/h/958977/32.png) [@Hawkeyeop](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Hawkeyeop)\ **Post date:** [December 24, 2011, 11:05am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/the-official-mlb-offseason-thread/601185/370 "2011-12-24T11:05:15Z")
> [@ElvisL1ves](#): > > [Three Ringed Circus | The Hardball Times](http://www.hardballtimes.com/main/article/three-ringed-circus/) Huh? That article is from before DiceK even signed with Boston, so it just speculation on what might happen rather than any evidence of what did. In fact the article thinks that the Red Sox would get off the field value from signing Dice K from additional exposure in Japan. Is that really what you are going with to prove your point? > [@What\_Exit](#): > > Not disagreeing on Boras, but what are the details on Lozano? I don’t know anything about him. There are allegations he used girls to get clients among other things. > **[Deadspin | Dan Lozano: Albert Pujols's Superagent, "King Of Sleaze Mountain"](https://deadspin.com/dan-lozano-albert-pujolss-superagent-king-of-sleaze-5861982/)** > > Deadspin | Dan Lozano: Albert Pujols's Superagent, "King Of Sleaze Mountain" > [@ElvisL1ves](#): > > See above. :dubious: I referred to “the pols”. That includes the ones in San Jose or anywhere. The fact that the ones in Oakland are already burned is the reason the A’s have to try their act elsewhere. But it’s the act that is badly chosen, not the targeted relocation site. Clear now? What part of it is a mlb issue and not a political issue are you having trouble with? > [@](#): > > As for Boras, he’s only doing what his clients _hire him to do_ - get them every possible cent, regardless. The fact that he does so very effectively is not to his discredit. If you want to deplore somebody, deplore the players who go for every possible cent, regardless. Or, better yet, deplore the system that makes it possible to dismiss every other consideration. Why would I deplore players for wanting to be paid what their worth? ---
**Author:** ![ElvisL1ves](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/e/5daacb/32.png) [@ElvisL1ves](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/ElvisL1ves)\ **Post date:** [December 24, 2011, 3:12pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/the-official-mlb-offseason-thread/601185/371 "2011-12-24T15:12:54Z")
> [@Hawkeyeop](#): > > Huh? That article is from before DiceK even signed with Boston, so it just speculation on what might happen rather than any evidence of what did. Your “site” request seemed to be for their expectations, not the reality, and that’s what I responded to. So you really were asking for a cite that something hasn’t happened? 🙂 > [@](#): > > What part of it is a mlb issue and not a political issue are you having trouble with? The part where the local pols are onboard with building a new ballpark with public funds. I’d ask \*you \*for a “site”, but that too would be asking for something that hasn’t happened. > [@](#): > > Why would I deplore players for wanting to be paid what their worth? You shouldn’t. It’s a business for them, too. The problem is with blaming Boras for it. ---
**Author:** ![mhendo](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/mhendo/32/3159_2.png) [@mhendo](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/mhendo)\ **Post date:** [December 24, 2011, 5:25pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/the-official-mlb-offseason-thread/601185/372 "2011-12-24T17:25:18Z")
> [@ElvisL1ves](#): > > You shouldn’t. It’s a business for them, too. The problem is with blaming Boras for it. And yet you said, just a few posts previously: > [@ElvisL1ves](#): > > If you want to deplore somebody, deplore the players who go for every possible cent, regardless. This suggests that the players somehow deserve our opprobrium for trying to maximize their income. ---
**Author:** ![RickJay](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/r/bb73d2/32.png) [@RickJay](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/RickJay)\ **Post date:** [December 24, 2011, 5:31pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/the-official-mlb-offseason-thread/601185/373 "2011-12-24T17:31:09Z")
> [@ElvisL1ves](#): > > Your “site” request seemed to be for their expectations, not the reality, and that’s what I responded to. So you really were asking for a cite that something hasn’t happened? 🙂 No, you made two claims: (1) The Red Sox had expectations to make money from the Japanese market as a result of signing Matsuzaka - that is in fact something that has already happened, since those expectations would have been established in 2006-2007, and (2) that Boston realized none of their expected gains is marketing revenue from signing Matsuzaka - or in your words, “not one little bit.” Those are things that are either true or are not true. Can you support either? Your cite comes from BEFORE Matsuzaka even started playing for Boston, so clearly it can’t answer the second point, and in fact it doesn’t even clearly state if Boston had any big merchandising/Japanese market expectations at all - the author acknowledges that Boston could not get substantial merchandising revenue gains due to the way that revenue is shared, something the Red Sox organization obviously would have known, and goes back to saying the gain would be in winning the World Series and increasing the franchise’s overall value, not in getting Japanese marketing cash. So if they had expectations of any significance about penetratring the Japanese market, you’ve provided no evidence for it. And even if they did, you’ve also provided no evidence those expectations were not met “one little bit.” So if Boston had expectations that were not met with regards to penetrating the Japanese market, can you provide some evidence as to what they were and whether or not they were met? I think we can agree their expectations regarding Matsuzaka’s PITCHING sure weren’t met, at least starting in 2009, but that isn’t what you were asked for evidence for. ---
**Author:** ![mhendo](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/mhendo/32/3159_2.png) [@mhendo](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/mhendo)\ **Post date:** [December 28, 2011, 11:54pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/the-official-mlb-offseason-thread/601185/374 "2011-12-28T23:54:33Z")
Looks like the Red Sox have replaced Papelbon. [A’s trade Bailey, Sweeney to Red Sox.](http://www.sfgate.com/cgi-bin/article.cgi?f=/n/a/2011/12/28/sports/s144058S89.DTL) In return, Oakland gets Josh Reddick and prospects Miles Head and Raul Alcantara. ---
**Author:** ![Marley23](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/m/45deac/32.png) [@Marley23](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Marley23)\ **Post date:** [December 29, 2011, 4:20am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/the-official-mlb-offseason-thread/601185/375 "2011-12-29T04:20:00Z")
I’m starting to wonder if Oakland is planning to field a team this season. ---
**Author:** ![RickJay](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/r/bb73d2/32.png) [@RickJay](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/RickJay)\ **Post date:** [December 29, 2011, 4:45am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/the-official-mlb-offseason-thread/601185/376 "2011-12-29T04:45:27Z")
This is way past the usual “we’re rebuilding” thing teams do. Even the prospect-happy A’s have never thrown in the towel like this; the guys they’re trading away are themselves young players with upside. Especially Trevor Cahill, who is only 24 next season and is under control for years to come; how do you explain that as a “rebuilding” move? Something’s up. ---
**Author:** ![mhendo](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/mhendo/32/3159_2.png) [@mhendo](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/mhendo)\ **Post date:** [December 29, 2011, 7:10am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/the-official-mlb-offseason-thread/601185/377 "2011-12-29T07:10:01Z")
Maybe it’s a big “fuck you” to MLB. “If you’re not going to let us move to San Jose, we’re not even going to try anymore.” Here’s a related [story](http://www.sfgate.com/cgi-bin/article.cgi?f=/c/a/2011/12/28/MNE21MHCKK.DTL) from today’s _San Francisco Chronicle_. > [@](#): > > Major League Baseball is apparently in no hurry to alter the Bay Area’s baseball landscape, either. According to multiple sources, including A’s owner Lew Wolff, the A’s stadium issue is not on the agenda for the owners meetings in Scottsdale, Ariz., in two weeks. > > “That’s my understanding,” Wolff said. > > Officials from both the A’s and Giants are prohibited by MLB Commissioner Bud Selig from discussing the A’s stadium situation, but Magowan, who still owns a small stake in the Giants, said that he is entirely up to date on the issue and that he does not believe that the A’s will be allowed to move to San Jose. > > \ > > There was widespread belief that the A’s stadium would be discussed at the owners meetings, in part because the team entered into a land-purchase agreement last month with the city of San Jose; the A’s have an option to buy 5 acres downtown, near HP Pavilion, at a reduced rate: $7 million for land that the city had acquired for $25 million and is currently appraised at $14 million. > > January also was thought to be a sensible time frame for the owners to look at the A’s stadium matter because the team has waited so long. Selig formed a panel to investigate a new ballpark nearly three years ago, and, to date, no report has been issued, although the A’s have been told that the panel’s work is completed. The A’s assumption has been that if the territorial rights were a deal breaker, the panel would not have been formed. ---
**Author:** ![RickJay](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/r/bb73d2/32.png) [@RickJay](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/RickJay)\ **Post date:** [December 29, 2011, 5:57pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/the-official-mlb-offseason-thread/601185/378 "2011-12-29T17:57:15Z")
> [@mhendo](#): > > Maybe it’s a big “fuck you” to MLB. > > “If you’re not going to let us move to San Jose, we’re not even going to try anymore.” I spoke before reading up on the issue. Indeed, in the Bailey trade article Beane - who is now a minority owner in the franchise, BTW - just outright says that the financial disparity has made it impossible for the A’s to realistically have a shot at competing; he’s more or less admitting the Rangers and Angels are way too far ahead in available funds. Which is reasonable to admit when the Angels are in a position to say “well, sure the Vernon Wells thing was a disaster. Let’s give hundreds of millions more to Albert Pujols and C.J. Wilson.” So yeah, they’re packing it in until they’re the San Jos-A’s, and they’re making it really obvious they’re packing it in. I again must point out that trading the likes of Cahill and Gonzalez is NOT Billy Beane’s M.O.; he didn’t trade guys like Tim Hudson and Barry Zito when they were just a few years into their careers. Maybe it’s a “Major League” scenario - “we’re gonna be so bad we’ll have to move.” What is for sure is that the A’s are going to absolutely crater in 2012 and so will attendance. The fan base is furious, and understandably so, and the team’s going to be indescribably horrible; looking at their roster now I don’t see how they win 62 games. They were last in the AL in attendance last year as it was, and with a shitty team that’s throwing in the towel and is already in the worst stadium in MLB, they won’t draw flies. If they move to San Jose do you think we’ll stop hearing the nickname “A’s” as much and have people use “Athletics” more? “San Jose A’s” is hard to say, but “San Jose Athletics” is easier. ---
**Author:** ![Mister\_Rik](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/mister_rik/32/491_2.png) [@Mister\_Rik](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Mister_Rik)\ **Post date:** [December 29, 2011, 9:10pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/the-official-mlb-offseason-thread/601185/379 "2011-12-29T21:10:28Z")
> [@RickJay](#): > > If they move to San Jose do you think we’ll stop hearing the nickname “A’s” as much and have people use “Athletics” more? “San Jose A’s” is hard to say, but “San Jose Athletics” is easier. I dunno. I started a thread some years ago (not gonna look it up) about the way fans (baseball fans, anyway) don’t seem to “like” three-syllable names, judging by the tendency for every 3-syllable team name to be reduced to a single letter: A’s, M’s, O’s, unless two team names start with the same letter, then it’s D-backs and D-rays. Sure, some two-syllable names get shortened as well, but always to a full syllable, not just a single letter. I’ve never heard anybody refer to the “New York Y’s” or the “Boston R’s”. Granted, none the words “Athletics”, “Mariners”, and “Orioles” contains a suitable syllable to shorten _to_. Hmm … “San Jose 'Tics”. Nah. Has any team relocated as many times as the Athletics? [del]Boston[/del], Philadelphia, Kansas City, Oakland … San Jose? ETA: Scratch that, I don’t know why I thought the A’s started out in Boston. I guess they’re tied with the Braves: Boston, Milwaukee, Atlanta. ---
**Author:** ![Mister\_Rik](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/mister_rik/32/491_2.png) [@Mister\_Rik](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Mister_Rik)\ **Post date:** [December 29, 2011, 9:24pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/the-official-mlb-offseason-thread/601185/380 "2011-12-29T21:24:03Z")
> [@Mister\_Rik](#): > > fans (baseball fans, anyway) don’t seem to “like” three-syllable names, judging by the tendency for every 3-syllable team name to be reduced to a single letter: A’s, M’s, O’s, unless two team names start with the same letter, then it’s D-backs and D-rays. Nevermind. The Wikipedia article on the Oakland A’s suggests it was newspaper headline writers, not fans, that started the practice, though the use of the initial does tend to fit with my point that these names don’t contain a suitable syllable for abbreviation. [Previous page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/the-official-mlb-offseason-thread/601185.md?page=18) [Next page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/the-official-mlb-offseason-thread/601185.md?page=20)