# The Official MLB Offseason Thread **URL:** \ **Category:** The Game Room\ **Created:** [October 29, 2011, 2:39pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/the-official-mlb-offseason-thread/601185 "2011-10-29T14:39:24Z")\ **Posts on this page:** 20\ **Page:** 27
**Author:** ![Munch](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/munch/32/5281_2.png) [@Munch](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Munch)\ **Post date:** [February 24, 2012, 10:54pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/the-official-mlb-offseason-thread/601185/521 "2012-02-24T22:54:47Z")
> [@Marley23](#): > > That’s a ridiculous counterargument. It applies to every test that gets flunked this way. I think the point is that tests don’t fail on that point - \*because \*it’s so easy to mask. I don’t entirely buy it, but it’s usually the presence of synthetic testosterone that they’re really looking for. And since the results are \*supposed \*to be private, we’ll never really know. ---
**Author:** ![Marley23](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/m/45deac/32.png) [@Marley23](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Marley23)\ **Post date:** [February 24, 2012, 10:58pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/the-official-mlb-offseason-thread/601185/522 "2012-02-24T22:58:59Z")
> [@Munch](#): > > I think the point is that tests don’t fail on that point - \*because \*it’s so easy to mask. I understand that, but I don’t think it’s meaningful. I expect more information is going to come out sooner or later, and maybe that’ll be useful. ---
**Author:** ![Enuma\_Elish](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/e/5e9695/32.png) [@Enuma\_Elish](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Enuma_Elish)\ **Post date:** [February 25, 2012, 12:01am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/the-official-mlb-offseason-thread/601185/523 "2012-02-25T00:01:40Z")
Braun’s statement: [Transcript of Ryan Braun's statement](http://www.jsonline.com/blogs/sports/140333483.html) 44 hours is a long long time to keep a sample away from possible shenanigans, whether of the human nature, or of a scientific nature. ---
**Author:** ![Asimovian](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/asimovian/32/172_2.png) [@Asimovian](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Asimovian)\ **Post date:** [February 25, 2012, 2:00am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/the-official-mlb-offseason-thread/601185/524 "2012-02-25T02:00:46Z")
Attention, Tribe fans: Grady’s resurgence is [not off to a good start](http://mlb.mlb.com/news/article.jsp?ymd=20120224&content_id=26840808&vkey=news_mlb&c_id=mlb). ---
**Author:** ![What\_Exit](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/what_exit/32/10652_2.png) [@What\_Exit](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/What_Exit)\ **Post date:** [February 25, 2012, 1:18pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/the-official-mlb-offseason-thread/601185/525 "2012-02-25T13:18:44Z")
> [@Enuma\_Elish](#): > > Braun’s statement: [www.jsonline.com/blogs/sports/140333483.html](http://www.jsonline.com/blogs/sports/140333483.html) > > 44 hours is a long long time to keep a sample away from possible shenanigans, whether of the human nature, or of a scientific nature. They regularly do Saturday evening testing though that then goes home for the weekend to be sent out Monday. 44 Hours sounds a little ominous but really is not at all. Braun got himself a fancy lawyer and slimed off, until I hear something to actually indicate the test was in any way tampered with, it would be safer to assume that Braun is a cheat that would not take his punishment and move on. To me he is worse then someone that owns up to his misdeed and moves on. He is more akin to a Roger Clemens then an Andy Pettitte. ---
**Author:** ![What\_Exit](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/what_exit/32/10652_2.png) [@What\_Exit](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/What_Exit)\ **Post date:** [February 25, 2012, 2:46pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/the-official-mlb-offseason-thread/601185/526 "2012-02-25T14:46:45Z")
[From an article on CBS Sportsline](http://dennis-dodd.blogs.cbssports.com/mcc/blogs/entry/6270202/34979620) I pulled these gems: > [@](#): > > In the anti-doping world, the reaction was the opposite. The World Anti-Doping Agency said the protocol breach that saved Braun would have been within its rules. The chief executive officer of the U.S. Anti-Doping Agency, Travis Tygart, called the verdict in Braun’s favor “a real gut-kick to clean athletes.” Major League Baseball released a statement defending the process. > “We have a very similar reaction to baseball,” Guinty said. “In our industry, it was standard industry practice to conduct the collection service like this collector did and take the sample home. \*\*The fact that nobody focused on the fact there is an unaccountable positive result \*\*… is a slap in the face to all the clean athletes who play the sport.” ---
**Author:** ![RickJay](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/r/bb73d2/32.png) [@RickJay](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/RickJay)\ **Post date:** [February 25, 2012, 2:59pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/the-official-mlb-offseason-thread/601185/527 "2012-02-25T14:59:02Z")
If you examine Braun’s response, it’s slimy. It’s well written, but left unanswered is _why he tested positive_. He’s a cheat. ---
**Author:** ![What\_Exit](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/what_exit/32/10652_2.png) [@What\_Exit](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/What_Exit)\ **Post date:** [February 25, 2012, 3:01pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/the-official-mlb-offseason-thread/601185/528 "2012-02-25T15:01:15Z")
> [@RickJay](#): > > If you examine Braun’s response, it’s slimy. It’s well written, but left unanswered is _why he tested positive_. > > He’s a cheat. He is also making sly aspersions at the collector’s integrity. To me Braun just keep looking worse and worse for this move he has made and how he his following it up. ---
**Author:** ![Hawkeyeop](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/h/958977/32.png) [@Hawkeyeop](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Hawkeyeop)\ **Post date:** [February 25, 2012, 3:14pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/the-official-mlb-offseason-thread/601185/529 "2012-02-25T15:14:30Z")
> [@Munch](#): > > I’m keeping my eyes peeled, What Exit? - but it looks like no one wants to run Carroll’s article, which is pretty telling. Still looks like there’s a lot to this story that isn’t making the light of day, so I’m not going to jump to anymore conclusions (on either side of the issue). Looks like Carroll ended up just posting the article on Amazon and you can buy it for 99 cents. I haven’t done so yet. > [@Munch](#): > > Got a response from Carroll on Twitter. Doesn’t seem to look like he believes the leak when they claim there was synthetic testosterone. I’m still not sure why Braun’s defense would focus on a breach of procedure if a scientific argument would be conclusive. Because it is really difficult to prove a negative. What else was Braun suppose to go with if he never took steroids but tested positive anyway. He can’t exactly go back and have them examine everything he ever consumed. Besides that might not have his only defense. Perhaps it is just what the arbitrator found most compelling. > [@What\_Exit](#): > > Munch has me keeping a more open mind but I still leaning towards slimed his way out. Let’s get one thing clear. Braun didn’t slime his way out of anything. He was afforded due progress and he took advantage of his rights. The union and mlb made an agreement. Part of that agreement requires players to pee in a cup in front of testers on call. This isn’t something players can tell testers to come back 48 hours for. They have to do it right then. By the same token the agreement has requirements of the testers. These are likewise not optional. The tester clearly broke protocol. It doesn’t matter if other sports have different agreements. The agreement between with the baseball union is the one they need to adhere. The process also grants an appeal which Braun has every right to use. It it is still certainly possible he actually used steroids, but he was found not guilty by legitimate means. ---
**Author:** ![What\_Exit](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/what_exit/32/10652_2.png) [@What\_Exit](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/What_Exit)\ **Post date:** [February 25, 2012, 3:16pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/the-official-mlb-offseason-thread/601185/530 "2012-02-25T15:16:51Z")
Slimed ---
**Author:** ![ElvisL1ves](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/e/5daacb/32.png) [@ElvisL1ves](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/ElvisL1ves)\ **Post date:** [February 25, 2012, 3:45pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/the-official-mlb-offseason-thread/601185/531 "2012-02-25T15:45:31Z")
> [@RickJay](#): > > If you examine Braun’s response, it’s slimy. It’s well written, but left unanswered is _why he tested positive_. > > He’s a cheat. He most likely used, sure, but I’d be more convinced with a follow-up test to cut down the chance of a false positive. But I have trouble calling somebody a cheat who’s doing something so pervasive in his sport. Are users really cheaters, or are non-users simply chumps? ---
**Author:** ![Southern\_Yankee](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/southern_yankee/32/2800_2.png) [@Southern\_Yankee](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Southern_Yankee)\ **Post date:** [February 25, 2012, 3:52pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/the-official-mlb-offseason-thread/601185/532 "2012-02-25T15:52:36Z")
Does anyone know the logistics of the testing process? Where does it take place, at the team’s facility? How much notice does the player have? Are you at your locker or on the field when someone comes up and taps you on the shoulder? ---
**Author:** ![What\_Exit](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/what_exit/32/10652_2.png) [@What\_Exit](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/What_Exit)\ **Post date:** [February 25, 2012, 3:52pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/the-official-mlb-offseason-thread/601185/533 "2012-02-25T15:52:55Z")
> [@ElvisL1ves](#): > > He most likely used, sure, but I’d be more convinced with a follow-up test to cut down the chance of a false positive. > > But I have trouble calling somebody a cheat who’s doing something so pervasive in his sport. Are users really cheaters, or are non-users simply chumps? Users are cheaters and MLB should continue to tighten testing and try to drive the crap out of baseball and the Union should start being a partner in this to protect the honest players. ---
**Author:** ![Hawkeyeop](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/h/958977/32.png) [@Hawkeyeop](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Hawkeyeop)\ **Post date:** [February 25, 2012, 4:11pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/the-official-mlb-offseason-thread/601185/534 "2012-02-25T16:11:34Z")
> [@What\_Exit](#): > > Users are cheaters and MLB should continue to tighten testing and try to drive the crap out of baseball and the Union should start being a partner in this to protect the honest players. So the union and mlb made an agreement, the mlb failed to live up to the agreement, and you think the problem is with the union? ---
**Author:** ![Hawkeyeop](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/h/958977/32.png) [@Hawkeyeop](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Hawkeyeop)\ **Post date:** [February 25, 2012, 4:13pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/the-official-mlb-offseason-thread/601185/535 "2012-02-25T16:13:25Z")
> [@Southern\_Yankee](#): > > Does anyone know the logistics of the testing process? Where does it take place, at the team’s facility? How much notice does the player have? Are you at your locker or on the field when someone comes up and taps you on the shoulder? [http://mlbplayers.mlb.com/pa/pdf/jda.pdf](http://mlbplayers.mlb.com/pa/pdf/jda.pdf) ---
**Author:** ![Southern\_Yankee](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/southern_yankee/32/2800_2.png) [@Southern\_Yankee](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Southern_Yankee)\ **Post date:** [February 25, 2012, 4:25pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/the-official-mlb-offseason-thread/601185/536 "2012-02-25T16:25:32Z")
> [@Hawkeyeop](#): > > [http://mlbplayers.mlb.com/pa/pdf/jda.pdf](http://mlbplayers.mlb.com/pa/pdf/jda.pdf) Thanks for that link. So, “Addendum A” of the document specifies in great detail the collection procedure for what seems like the in-season process (everything happens at the ballpark.) It doesn’t seem to mention anything about the procedure for the random off-season testing they also claim to do. > [@](#): > > Of these additional tests, the IPA may conduct tests > at unannounced times during the off-season (i.e., the period not covered by the > Section 3.A.1 definition of the championship season); provided, however, that any > off-season tests shall only be for the presence of Performance Enhancing > Substances The whole process they describe depends on the player being present at the ballpark. ---
**Author:** ![Enuma\_Elish](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/e/5e9695/32.png) [@Enuma\_Elish](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Enuma_Elish)\ **Post date:** [February 25, 2012, 4:52pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/the-official-mlb-offseason-thread/601185/537 "2012-02-25T16:52:20Z")
The default assumption that Braun is a cheat is an intellectually lazy and ugly assumption. Any testing process that allows the test material to be unobserved for 44 hours when it was clearly possible to Fed Ex the test material within hours of the test is fatally flawed. Why are people willing to trust a tester we know next to nothing about AND his surrounding environment that we know nothing about? Even if the tester was honest, he didn’t walk around with a jar of urine for 44 hours. It was in a place that was unobserved by him and accessible to at least one other (his son), and who knows how many more. Kids do have friends over when their parents are gone… It is also very telling that as soon as the MLB got the test results back to Braun, he immediately contacted them and asked to have DNA taken from him to see if it matched the test sample. (Why would an innocent person ask for this?) The MLB refused. WHY? I have been a Brewer fan my entire life and I know first-hand how much of a bumbling stubborn jerk Bud Selig is. He always defends his obvious inadequacies with righteous fervor. And for all you this-is-a-homer-call people out there, that simply isn’t true. Since becoming commissioner, Selig has bent over backward to screw the Brewers at every opportunity even when they deserved a call their way because of his uber-paranoia over being seen as ‘fair’. ---
**Author:** ![Marley23](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/m/45deac/32.png) [@Marley23](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Marley23)\ **Post date:** [February 25, 2012, 5:14pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/the-official-mlb-offseason-thread/601185/538 "2012-02-25T17:14:30Z")
> [@Enuma\_Elish](#): > > It was in a place that was unobserved by him and accessible to at least one other (his son), and who knows how many more. Kids do have friends over when their parents are gone… The sample was under multiple seals that were not broken, and _again_, Braun and his team did not argue the sample was tampered with. ---
**Author:** ![MOIDALIZE](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/m/e274bd/32.png) [@MOIDALIZE](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/MOIDALIZE)\ **Post date:** [February 25, 2012, 5:14pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/the-official-mlb-offseason-thread/601185/539 "2012-02-25T17:14:37Z")
You don’t let violations of testing procedures slide just because “he knows he’s guilty.” The players bargained for those procedures and have every right to expect that they’ll be followed. It’s not like the penalty for a failed test was a slap on the wrist. If a police officer gathered evidence from a rape kit but kept the evidence in his house over the weekend rather than immediately turning it in to be tested, I’d think that would cast doubt on the reliability of the evidence. ---
**Author:** ![Invisible\_Chimp](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/i/f05b48/32.png) [@Invisible\_Chimp](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Invisible_Chimp)\ **Post date:** [February 25, 2012, 5:21pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/the-official-mlb-offseason-thread/601185/540 "2012-02-25T17:21:26Z")
> [@Enuma\_Elish](#): > > I have been a Brewer fan my entire life and I know first-hand how much of a bumbling stubborn jerk Bud Selig is. You’re obviously biased towards believing he’s innocent. You won’t look at any evidence objectively. [Previous page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/the-official-mlb-offseason-thread/601185.md?page=26) [Next page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/the-official-mlb-offseason-thread/601185.md?page=28)