# The official Pope Benedict XVI thread. **URL:** \ **Category:** Great Debates\ **Created:** [April 19, 2005, 4:41pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/the-official-pope-benedict-xvi-thread/300079 "2005-04-19T16:41:35Z")\ **Posts on this page:** 20\ **Page:** 3
**Author:** ![Guinastasia](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/guinastasia/32/5751_2.png) [@Guinastasia](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Guinastasia)\ **Post date:** [April 19, 2005, 5:56pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/the-official-pope-benedict-xvi-thread/300079/41 "2005-04-19T17:56:02Z")
Quick, quick-someone go to Wikipedia and check out the picture that someone put up for the new pontiff! 😛 I can definitely see the resemblance! ---
**Author:** ![dropzone](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/dropzone/32/7515_2.png) [@dropzone](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/dropzone)\ **Post date:** [April 19, 2005, 5:56pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/the-official-pope-benedict-xvi-thread/300079/42 "2005-04-19T17:56:38Z")
> [@Gangster Octopus](#): > > The Catholic Churh under the auspices of John Paul II has become stronger, more international and universal while mainatining a traditional conservative ideaology. It is far from becoming marginalized, if anything the reverse is true. Perhaps in Latin America and Africa but in North America and Europe it has lost relevance to many of its members and former members and is shrinking. Ratzinger will not improve that. ---
**Author:** ![Tastes\_of\_Chocolate](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/tastes_of_chocolate/32/3232_2.png) [@Tastes\_of\_Chocolate](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Tastes_of_Chocolate)\ **Post date:** [April 19, 2005, 5:57pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/the-official-pope-benedict-xvi-thread/300079/43 "2005-04-19T17:57:04Z")
> [@Cervaise](#): > > Plus they chose one of the oldest of these they could, so they can change course if they have to in ten years or so. That’s the thing that struck me as I was listening to the BBC coverage: Ratzinger is an extremely combative choice, representing sort of a “you got a problem with this? come and get us” stance, but he isn’t going to be in office very long at all. If it works (from their point of view), they look like geniuses. If it goes all pear-shaped, it won’t be very long before they can make a correction. Since I heard the news, I’ve wondered if the cardinals chose the equivalent of a corporate hatchetman. Bring in a new CEO, let him do all the dirty work, then send him on his way, taking all the ill-will with him. ---
**Author:** ![Marley23](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/m/45deac/32.png) [@Marley23](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Marley23)\ **Post date:** [April 19, 2005, 5:58pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/the-official-pope-benedict-xvi-thread/300079/44 "2005-04-19T17:58:22Z")
> [@Skammer](#): > > Perhaps ‘crusade’ is not the best choice of words… call it ‘campaign.’ Meh. It’ll leave a lot of people dead, so ‘crusade’ works. ---
**Author:** ![BobLibDem](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/boblibdem/32/3149_2.png) [@BobLibDem](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/BobLibDem)\ **Post date:** [April 19, 2005, 5:59pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/the-official-pope-benedict-xvi-thread/300079/45 "2005-04-19T17:59:32Z")
This is a terrible choice made only slightly more palatable due to Benedict’s remaining lifespan. The Church needs to reach out, not push away. I fear that his hard line “my way or the highway” attitude is going to further dry up the seminaries. We’re getting the ultra-orthodoxy of John Paul without the personality and charisma to carry it off. Cafeteria Catholics such as myself will find ourselves accepting less church dogma and many will leave the Church. ---
**Author:** ![Left\_Hand\_of\_Dorkness](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/left_hand_of_dorkness/32/7156_2.png) [@Left\_Hand\_of\_Dorkness](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Left_Hand_of_Dorkness)\ **Post date:** [April 19, 2005, 6:01pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/the-official-pope-benedict-xvi-thread/300079/46 "2005-04-19T18:01:50Z")
> [@Gangster Octopus](#): > > The Catholic Churh under the auspices of John Paul II has become stronger, more international and universal while mainatining a traditional conservative ideaology. It is far from becoming marginalized, if anything the reverse is true. Really? I was under the impression that it’s been steadily losing ground in Europe, North America, Central America, and South America, and that its inroads in Africa were pretty minor. Can you back these claims up? Note that in Central & South America it’s been losing ground to Evangelical Christianity, so a move to the right isn’t likely to cause further loss there; but a move to the left might have roped in some former liberation theologist-types who’ve been disillusioned with the Church. Daniel ---
**Author:** ![Scott\_Plaid](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/s/258eb7/32.png) [@Scott\_Plaid](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Scott_Plaid)\ **Post date:** [April 19, 2005, 6:04pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/the-official-pope-benedict-xvi-thread/300079/47 "2005-04-19T18:04:12Z")
> [@Skammer](#): > > \BenXVI is theologically astute and scripturally grounded. I hope that he continues JPII’s crusade against political injustice, war and state-sponsored violence, moral relativism and sexual permissiveness. > > Perhaps ‘crusade’ is not the best choice of words… call it ‘campaign.’ No, I would say that crusader is a pretty apt choice of words. For the last eternity or so, civilization, and co-operation have been progressing, despite religion. Now we have scriptural grounding, instead. Well, guess what? Jihad is scripturally grounded, too. However, it is incompatible to world peace, which many would say is a good thing. ---
**Author:** ![RTFirefly](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/r/c77e96/32.png) [@RTFirefly](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/RTFirefly)\ **Post date:** [April 19, 2005, 6:04pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/the-official-pope-benedict-xvi-thread/300079/48 "2005-04-19T18:04:24Z")
I hereby dub him “Pope Rat I.” Maybe we should introduce him to the House Majority Leader. “Bug Man, Rat Man. Rat Man, Bug Man.” ---
**Author:** ![Marley23](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/m/45deac/32.png) [@Marley23](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Marley23)\ **Post date:** [April 19, 2005, 6:06pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/the-official-pope-benedict-xvi-thread/300079/49 "2005-04-19T18:06:37Z")
> [@Gangster Octopus](#): > > The Catholic Churh under the auspices of John Paul II has become stronger, more international and universal while mainatining a traditional conservative ideaology. It is far from becoming marginalized, if anything the reverse is true. It all depends on how you look at it. It’s certainly becoming marginalized in the industrialized, more secular, world; that shouldn’t be news to anybody. There are divisions with the United States, mostly over the child abuse scandals but perhaps also women and gays, and with Europe too. As an aging and sick man, John Paul II didn’t deal with those things, and I’m not sure the guy who was basically his second-in-command (not young himself) will deal with them either. We’ll see. ---
**Author:** ![istara](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/i/e79b87/32.png) [@istara](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/istara)\ **Post date:** [April 19, 2005, 6:09pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/the-official-pope-benedict-xvi-thread/300079/50 "2005-04-19T18:09:00Z")
> [@uglybeech](#): > > And this is a good thing because…? > > Not that the thought - that a Pope Ratzinger might bring down the church - hadn’t occurred to me (with just a little pleasure) in my more anti-theist moments. But back in reality a widening gulf between the church and the secular West is not a good thing. IMHO it just makes the true believers even crazier. And personally I would very much like the priests in Africa to stop saying that condoms don’t prevent AIDS. etc. Because it will force proper reforms, not just some weak, token things. Dramatic, radical change is needed to bridge that gulf and stop it widening. ---
**Author:** ![istara](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/i/e79b87/32.png) [@istara](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/istara)\ **Post date:** [April 19, 2005, 6:11pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/the-official-pope-benedict-xvi-thread/300079/51 "2005-04-19T18:11:02Z")
> [@BobLibDem](#): > > This is a terrible choice made only slightly more palatable due to Benedict’s remaining lifespan. The problem is that this is a ludicrous gamble. The chances are that he could live to 100, or certainly 90, given he seems to be in far better health that the last Pope was at his age. Another twenty years = another generation of draconian conservatism. ---
**Author:** ![Loopydude](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/l/e56c9b/32.png) [@Loopydude](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Loopydude)\ **Post date:** [April 19, 2005, 6:25pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/the-official-pope-benedict-xvi-thread/300079/52 "2005-04-19T18:25:36Z")
I don’t think it will be that bad. What this vote seems to be, to me, is a vote for the status quo. I just find it sort of amazing, because it appears to be an admission of defeat for the Church in the Old World. One of JPII’s greatest ambitions was to restore the relevance of the Church in Western Europe, and he arguably failed to achieve that goal. Quite the contrary, some might say. Meanwhile, in the Third World, especially Africa, the Roman faith as grown at a healthy pace. Does this mean the College of Cardinals is comfortable with the current trend, or sees it as somehow inevitable? ---
**Author:** ![Eve](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/e/9e8a1a/32.png) [@Eve](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Eve)\ **Post date:** [April 19, 2005, 6:41pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/the-official-pope-benedict-xvi-thread/300079/53 "2005-04-19T18:41:22Z")
> [@](#): > > Ratzinger turned 78 on Saturday. His age clearly was a factor among cardinals who favored a ``transitional’’ pope who could skillfully lead the church as it absorbs John Paul II’s legacy, rather than a younger cardinal who could wind up with another long pontificate. It’s gotta be tough, being “Rebound Pope.” ---
**Author:** ![asterion](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/a/4da419/32.png) [@asterion](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/asterion)\ **Post date:** [April 19, 2005, 6:42pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/the-official-pope-benedict-xvi-thread/300079/54 "2005-04-19T18:42:04Z")
So, with this choice, can we expect some sort of German Inquistion? ---
**Author:** ![Guinastasia](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/guinastasia/32/5751_2.png) [@Guinastasia](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Guinastasia)\ **Post date:** [April 19, 2005, 6:46pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/the-official-pope-benedict-xvi-thread/300079/55 "2005-04-19T18:46:42Z")
> [@istara](#): > > The problem is that this is a ludicrous gamble. The chances are that he could live to 100, or certainly 90, given he seems to be in far better health that the last Pope was at his age. I wouldn’t be too sure of his health. Everyone thought JP I was fit as a fiddle…and look at what happened to him? ---
**Author:** ![Left\_Hand\_of\_Dorkness](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/left_hand_of_dorkness/32/7156_2.png) [@Left\_Hand\_of\_Dorkness](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Left_Hand_of_Dorkness)\ **Post date:** [April 19, 2005, 6:53pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/the-official-pope-benedict-xvi-thread/300079/56 "2005-04-19T18:53:29Z")
> [@asterion](#): > > So, with this choice, can we expect some sort of German Inquistion? I wouldn’t expect so. Daniel ---
**Author:** ![Tamerlane](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/tamerlane/32/7602_2.png) [@Tamerlane](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Tamerlane)\ **Post date:** [April 19, 2005, 6:55pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/the-official-pope-benedict-xvi-thread/300079/57 "2005-04-19T18:55:27Z")
> [@Loopydude](#): > > I just find it sort of amazing, because it appears to be an admission of defeat for the Church in the Old World. One of JPII’s greatest ambitions was to restore the relevance of the Church in Western Europe, and he arguably failed to achieve that goal. > > Does this mean the College of Cardinals is comfortable with the current trend, or sees it as somehow inevitable? Ratzinger himself appears to be of this opinion, at least according to an analyst I heard talking about him the other day. Apparently he is quite blunt ( to the consternation of some in the church ) in his opinion that the Catholic Church will continue to shrink in Europe in the near future. In that sense he seems a realist as to the effect of his uncompromising conservative stance. - Tamerlane ---
**Author:** ![furt](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/f/439d5e/32.png) [@furt](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/furt)\ **Post date:** [April 19, 2005, 6:59pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/the-official-pope-benedict-xvi-thread/300079/58 "2005-04-19T18:59:36Z")
> [@asterion](#): > > Can we expect some sort of German Inquistion? No one expects that. ---
**Author:** ![yBeayf](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/y/e274bd/32.png) [@yBeayf](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/yBeayf)\ **Post date:** [April 19, 2005, 7:02pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/the-official-pope-benedict-xvi-thread/300079/59 "2005-04-19T19:02:51Z")
What I find interesting is that in the photos of the new pope greeting the crowds on the balcony, he appears to be wearing the _falda_, the ornate silk papal alb that was last used by Pope Paul VI. I’m wondering if this means he is planning to reinstate some of the regalia that fell into disuse after Vatican II, and especially with Pope John Paul II, such as the _sedia gestatoria_ and the _triregno_. ---
**Author:** ![Hoodoo\_Ulove](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/h/58956e/32.png) [@Hoodoo\_Ulove](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Hoodoo_Ulove)\ **Post date:** [April 19, 2005, 7:05pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/the-official-pope-benedict-xvi-thread/300079/60 "2005-04-19T19:05:22Z")
> [@RTFirefly](#): > > I hereby dub him “Pope Rat I.”. Don’t you think “Benny the Rat” has a nice Damon Runyon flavor? [Previous page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/the-official-pope-benedict-xvi-thread/300079.md?page=2) [Next page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/the-official-pope-benedict-xvi-thread/300079.md?page=4)