# The official Pope Benedict XVI thread. **URL:** \ **Category:** Great Debates\ **Created:** [April 19, 2005, 4:41pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/the-official-pope-benedict-xvi-thread/300079 "2005-04-19T16:41:35Z")\ **Posts on this page:** 20\ **Page:** 6
**Author:** ![uglybeech](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/u/82dd89/32.png) [@uglybeech](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/uglybeech)\ **Post date:** [April 20, 2005, 12:04am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/the-official-pope-benedict-xvi-thread/300079/101 "2005-04-20T00:04:29Z")
> [@Left Hand of Dorkness](#): > > …or is it? I definitely fell face first into that one. > [@furt](#): > > No one expects that. And only six hours later uglybeech gets the joke. 😃 ---
**Author:** ![furt](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/f/439d5e/32.png) [@furt](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/furt)\ **Post date:** [April 20, 2005, 12:38am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/the-official-pope-benedict-xvi-thread/300079/102 "2005-04-20T00:38:04Z")
> [@BrainGlutton](#): > > Hell, if his actions as a cardinal are any indication, he might even threaten to excommunicate any Catholic who supports Turkey’s admission! He did write a letter to American bishops last year advising them to deny communion to anyone who supported abortion rights (a not-so-subtle dig at Kerry). [MSN | Outlook, Office, Skype, Bing, Breaking News, and Latest Videos](http://www.msnbc.msn.com/id/7523254/) [Untrue.](http://boards.straightdope.com/sdmb/showpost.php?p=6073581&postcount=171) I’m with you on Turkey, though. ---
**Author:** ![BrainGlutton](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/b/82dd89/32.png) [@BrainGlutton](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/BrainGlutton)\ **Post date:** [April 20, 2005, 1:25am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/the-official-pope-benedict-xvi-thread/300079/103 "2005-04-20T01:25:29Z")
> [@furt](#): > > [Untrue.](http://boards.straightdope.com/sdmb/showpost.php?p=6073581&postcount=171) Perhaps I misinterpreted the MSNBC article. Here it is in context: > [@](#): > > His conservative actions include a letter of advice last year to U.S. bishops on denying communion to politicians who support abortion rights, which some observers viewed as a slam at then Democratic presidential candidate Sen. John Kerry. > > He also accused the media of fueling the priest sex abuse scandals of recent years. “I am personally convinced,” he one told an interviewer, “that the constant presence in the press of the sins of Catholic priests, especially in the U.S., is a planned campaign.” > > And Sister Jeannine Gramick, a nun who he ordered to stop ministering to gays and lesbians in the United States, called his election “devastating” for those who believe the Catholic Church needs to be more tolerant. Bad piece of work. From the thread you linked: > [@](#): > > [N.B. A Catholic would be guilty of formal cooperation in evil, and so unworthy to present himself for Holy Communion, if he were to deliberately vote for a candidate precisely because of the candidate’s permissive stand on abortion and/or euthanasia. When a Catholic does not share a candidate’s stand in favour of abortion and/or euthanasia, but votes for that candidate for other reasons, it is considered remote material cooperation, which can be permitted in the presence of proportionate reasons.] “Formal cooperation” . . . “remote material cooperation” . . . “proportionate reason” . . . 😛 Gotta love it! Nobody can match the RCC for refined, measured, gymnastic moral sophistry! ---
**Author:** ![asterion](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/a/4da419/32.png) [@asterion](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/asterion)\ **Post date:** [April 20, 2005, 1:38am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/the-official-pope-benedict-xvi-thread/300079/104 "2005-04-20T01:38:09Z")
> [@uglybeech](#): > > And only six hours later uglybeech gets the joke. 😃 It was half-joke, half-serious. Benedict XVI does not exactly fill me with good feelings about what his papacy will do for the RCC, though I’m basically lasped ELCA. ---
**Author:** ![Metacom](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/m/ecae2f/32.png) [@Metacom](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Metacom)\ **Post date:** [April 20, 2005, 1:40am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/the-official-pope-benedict-xvi-thread/300079/105 "2005-04-20T01:40:27Z")
> [@Little Nemo](#): > > Benedict might end up acting as George Bush to John Paul’s Reagan. He’s gonna barf in Rowan William’s lap? 😕 > [@BrainGlutton](#): > > “Formal cooperation” . . . “remote material cooperation” . . . “proportionate reason” . . . Gotta love it! Nobody can match the RCC for refined, measured, gymnastic moral sophistry! Actually, that’s one of the things I respect about the RCC. Morality _isn’t_ always so simple, and they seem to recognize that. ---
**Author:** ![furt](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/f/439d5e/32.png) [@furt](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/furt)\ **Post date:** [April 20, 2005, 1:46am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/the-official-pope-benedict-xvi-thread/300079/106 "2005-04-20T01:46:19Z")
> [@BrainGlutton](#): > > Perhaps I misinterpreted the MSNBC article. No, you interpreted it fine; the article is misleading. Yes, he did issue a letter, and yes “some observers” viewed it any number of ways. The fact was, however, that the American bishops were divided and asked for guidance. He danced around the issue of giving the candidate communion as much as canon law allowed, and he said that people could vote for whoever they like so long as their vote wasn’t based exclusively on promoting abortion. Call that moral sophistry if you like; I call it an attempt for as much compromise as you can reasonably expect, given that the church considers abortion murder. ---
**Author:** ![Little\_Nemo](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/little_nemo/32/3120_2.png) [@Little\_Nemo](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Little_Nemo)\ **Post date:** [April 20, 2005, 2:18am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/the-official-pope-benedict-xvi-thread/300079/107 "2005-04-20T02:18:16Z")
> [@](#): > > Popeship? > > Popehood? > > Popeness? > > Popity? > > Popourri? The correct term is Poputus of Love. ---
**Author:** ![tomndebb](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/t/b9e5f3/32.png) [@tomndebb](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/tomndebb)\ **Post date:** [April 20, 2005, 2:53am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/the-official-pope-benedict-xvi-thread/300079/108 "2005-04-20T02:53:40Z")
> [@Little Nemo](#): > > > [@](#): > > > > Popeship? > > > > Popehood? > > > > Popeness? > > > > Popity? > > > > Popourri? > > The correct term is Poputus of Love. L’il Nemo is probably correct, but the word that is in common use in English is _papacy_. ---
**Author:** ![Kozmik](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/k/8dc957/32.png) [@Kozmik](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Kozmik)\ **Post date:** [April 20, 2005, 5:30am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/the-official-pope-benedict-xvi-thread/300079/109 "2005-04-20T05:30:26Z")
My initial reaction was that Benedict XVI will not be like JPII. Something about him tells me that he may be a Pope who will not bode well with Catholics and non-Catholics alike. There is so much about him that sceams “hardliner”. However, I’m going to give him the benefit of the doubt. ---
**Author:** ![Polycarp](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/p/82dd89/32.png) [@Polycarp](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Polycarp)\ **Post date:** [April 20, 2005, 5:55am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/the-official-pope-benedict-xvi-thread/300079/110 "2005-04-20T05:55:40Z")
> [@Little Nemo](#): > > The correct term is Poputus of Love. That would be Pompit(o)us of Love, and it is attributed to Pope Mauritius. 😉 ---
**Author:** ![RedFury](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/r/ec9cab/32.png) [@RedFury](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/RedFury)\ **Post date:** [April 20, 2005, 6:53am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/the-official-pope-benedict-xvi-thread/300079/111 "2005-04-20T06:53:08Z")
Makes no matter to me --however, if the RCC wishes to turn more of their faithful away, they’ve done a bang-up job. At this rate I don’t see too many more Popes down the line before a schism between the different interpretations of dogma – sects? – happens. Whether that’s good or bad, obviously depends on your worldview. If you’re like me, and thinks that organized religion is but a legal sham this can oly be a good thing. Geez, you’d think at least a few of those fossilitic (?) Cardinals would realize that in a precious few years seminaries are all but going to be out of business. And since we’re pretty much guaranteed that women won’t be able to join the priesthood anytime soon – Ratzinger’s been pretty adamnant about this – hopefully, we’ll see the RRC become largely irrelevant as women and other believers realize just how out of step its become. Specially if Ratzinger defies the odds and remains Pope for a long time. Long Live the Pope! Self destruction’s worked wonders in the past… . ---
**Author:** ![BrainGlutton](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/b/82dd89/32.png) [@BrainGlutton](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/BrainGlutton)\ **Post date:** [April 20, 2005, 7:10am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/the-official-pope-benedict-xvi-thread/300079/112 "2005-04-20T07:10:10Z")
> [@RedFury](#): > > Makes no matter to me --however, if the RCC wishes to turn more of their faithful away, they’ve done a bang-up job. Already happened. See [http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Sedevacantism](http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Sedevacantism). Difference is, in the age of John XXIII, the RCC alienated the arch-conservatives, but now it’s alienating the even-moderate-liberals. Before long, there will be no Catholics left but the Entirely and Intractably Stupid. Not that that’s a constituency to be discounted, in terms of sheer numbers . . . ---
**Author:** ![FriarTed](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/friarted/32/1052_2.png) [@FriarTed](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/FriarTed)\ **Post date:** [April 20, 2005, 7:45am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/the-official-pope-benedict-xvi-thread/300079/113 "2005-04-20T07:45:20Z")
> [@uglybeech](#): > > groan…have you no shame at all, sir? I’m ashamed I had to read it three times before I got it. ---
**Author:** ![Pushkin](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/p/ee59a6/32.png) [@Pushkin](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Pushkin)\ **Post date:** [April 20, 2005, 7:52am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/the-official-pope-benedict-xvi-thread/300079/114 "2005-04-20T07:52:53Z")
Scanning the covers of the tabloids this morning, I’m fairly sure that amongst the pictures of the new Pope Benedict waving from a balcony, England’s **Daily Mail** had a picture of him in the 1940s in Hitler Youth uniform :rolleyes: Of course, this is the same paper that critcised a German officer for having a high role in NATO because his father was a German Army officer in WWII… ---
**Author:** ![FriarTed](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/friarted/32/1052_2.png) [@FriarTed](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/FriarTed)\ **Post date:** [April 20, 2005, 8:02am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/the-official-pope-benedict-xvi-thread/300079/115 "2005-04-20T08:02:01Z")
I was hoping for Cardinal Arinze from Nigeria or the Honduran Cardinal. But oh well- God bless & guide Pope Benedict XVI to lead the Church in the Word of God & the Spirit of our Lord & Saviour Jesus Christ. I’m Evangelical Protty, hopeful for close working relations with evangelical Catholicism, favoring an end to clerical celibacy, a change on the contraception issue & better Vatican-Israeli relations- so yeah, I’m not totally thrilled. But I’m also against religious relativism & cultural secularism, most abortions, and doctrinal & sexual-moral liberalism, and his election seems to irritate the same people that irritate me, so I’m hopeful. ---
**Author:** ![Arwin](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/a/51bf81/32.png) [@Arwin](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Arwin)\ **Post date:** [April 20, 2005, 9:01am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/the-official-pope-benedict-xvi-thread/300079/116 "2005-04-20T09:01:18Z")
> [@Pushkin](#): > > Scanning the covers of the tabloids this morning, I’m fairly sure that amongst the pictures of the new Pope Benedict waving from a balcony, England’s **Daily Mail** had a picture of him in the 1940s in Hitler Youth uniform :rolleyes: Yeah, and I’m sure they failed to mention that being a Hitler Youth or joining the army was obligatory. Incidentally, he even served in the German army (also obligatory of course), and then defected in Austria in 1944. ---
**Author:** ![dougie\_monty](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/d/439d5e/32.png) [@dougie\_monty](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/dougie_monty)\ **Post date:** [April 20, 2005, 9:11am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/the-official-pope-benedict-xvi-thread/300079/117 "2005-04-20T09:11:53Z")
> [@BrainGlutton](#): > > And let’s see what Jack Chick does with **that!** 😉 Perhaps he’s open to suggestions. 😉 ---
**Author:** ![FriarTed](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/friarted/32/1052_2.png) [@FriarTed](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/FriarTed)\ **Post date:** [April 20, 2005, 9:39am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/the-official-pope-benedict-xvi-thread/300079/118 "2005-04-20T09:39:14Z")
> [@dougie\_monty](#): > > Perhaps he’s open to suggestions. 😉 Jack did a tract a couple of years ago called HE’S COMING BACK. Before, the Beast & the False Prophet were always non-descript figures (formerly in suits or generic robes, recently in priestly/episcopal/papal vestments). In that one, they were quite clearly drawn to represent Jesuit-General Hans Peter Von Kolvenbach and John Paul II. So for Jack, I guess it’s quite literally “back to the drawing board”. ---
**Author:** ![ElvisL1ves](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/e/5daacb/32.png) [@ElvisL1ves](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/ElvisL1ves)\ **Post date:** [April 20, 2005, 12:49pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/the-official-pope-benedict-xvi-thread/300079/119 "2005-04-20T12:49:21Z")
> [@Arwin](#): > > Incidentally, he even served in the German army (also obligatory of course), and then defected in Austria in 1944. I’ve seen other sources that say it was May 1945, when half the Wehrmacht was doing the same thing. ---
**Author:** ![Scott\_Plaid](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/s/258eb7/32.png) [@Scott\_Plaid](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Scott_Plaid)\ **Post date:** [April 20, 2005, 1:29pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/the-official-pope-benedict-xvi-thread/300079/120 "2005-04-20T13:29:52Z")
Ahem, back to the subject of finding humor in the situation, let me be the first to hail the new Pope in the manner to which he is accustomed: \*\*Vivat Grendel! \*\* [(Wait, the fiction pope in Matt Wagner’s series Grendel wasn’t named Pope Benedict? Well, color me surprised!) [Previous page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/the-official-pope-benedict-xvi-thread/300079.md?page=5) [Next page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/the-official-pope-benedict-xvi-thread/300079.md?page=7)