# the "oh! that's what the song is about!" thread **URL:** \ **Category:** Cafe Society\ **Created:** [September 12, 2010, 8:02am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/the-oh-thats-what-the-song-is-about-thread/553486 "2010-09-12T08:02:34Z")\ **Posts on this page:** 20\ **Page:** 2
**Author:** ![RealityChuck](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/realitychuck/32/195_2.png) [@RealityChuck](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/RealityChuck)\ **Post date:** [September 13, 2010, 7:56pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/the-oh-thats-what-the-song-is-about-thread/553486/21 "2010-09-13T19:56:57Z")
> [@spark240](#): > > Not to mention, “Girls will be boys and boys will be girls.” “It’s a mixed up muddled up shook up world – except for Lola.” Which means that Lola is an exception to “Girls will be boys, etc.” – she’s not a part of that. “Looks like a woman but talks like a man” – Like Bea Arthur? Like Marlene Dietrich? Deep, almost masculine voices. Are they transvestites? The brilliance of the song is that it can be read both ways. ---
**Author:** ![CalMeacham](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/calmeacham/32/35_2.png) [@CalMeacham](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/CalMeacham)\ **Post date:** [September 13, 2010, 8:14pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/the-oh-thats-what-the-song-is-about-thread/553486/22 "2010-09-13T20:14:57Z")
> [@](#): > > “It’s a mixed up muddled up shook up world – except for Lola.” Which means that Lola is an exception to “Girls will be boys, etc.” – she’s not a part of that. > > “Looks like a woman but talks like a man” – Like Bea Arthur? Like Marlene Dietrich? Deep, almost masculine voices. Are they transvestites? > > The brilliance of the song is that it can be read both ways. You could, but it seems a real stretch to me. Why even bring up the “boys will be girls and girls will be boys” stuff if Lola is definitely female? And I’ve always read the “shook up world except for Lola” to mean that his attraction to Lola is the one thing that’s not muddled and mixed up – not that Lola is exempt from the “girls will be boys” stuff. Unlike the folks posting here, it’s been obvious to me for a long time that the song is implying but shying just away from directly stating that Lola’s a guy. I was amazed that a song with that message got on the radio in the 1960s. But I figure it was able to get there by exploiting that smidgen of doubt. ---
**Author:** ![Peremensoe](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/p/ce7236/32.png) [@Peremensoe](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Peremensoe)\ **Post date:** [September 13, 2010, 8:30pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/the-oh-thats-what-the-song-is-about-thread/553486/23 "2010-09-13T20:30:30Z")
> [@RealityChuck](#): > > > [@spark240](#): > > > > Not to mention, “Girls will be boys and boys will be girls.” > > “It’s a mixed up muddled up shook up world – except for Lola.” Which means that Lola is an exception to “Girls will be boys, etc.” – she’s not a part of that. Aaarghh! :smack: Look, Lola’s not “mixed up,” to the protagonist, because “her” transvestism and gayness and dominance feels right to him. He’s _found his role_–“that’s the way that I want it to stay”–after being naive about his own sexuality. > [@RealityChuck](#): > > The brilliance of the song is that it can be read both ways. The cleverness of the last line, such as it is, isn’t that it “might” mean Lola is or isn’t a man, but that it carries _both_ direct meanings; Lola _is_ a man, and also glad the protagonist is one. Reading it as only the latter, and a refutation of the former, requires a contortionist denial of everything else in the song. Look, I’m a huge advocate of the idea that different interpretations can be equally valid, and authorial intent need not determine rightness… but _this_ example is so crashingly direct… You know Ray Davies dated [Candy Darling](http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Candy_Darling)? ---
**Author:** ![mr.jp](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/m/48db29/32.png) [@mr.jp](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/mr.jp)\ **Post date:** [September 13, 2010, 10:48pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/the-oh-thats-what-the-song-is-about-thread/553486/24 "2010-09-13T22:48:35Z")
> [@spark240](#): > > The cleverness of the last line, such as it is, isn’t that it “might” mean Lola is or isn’t a man, but that it carries _both_ direct meanings; Lola _is_ a man, and also glad the protagonist is one. Reading it as only the latter, and a refutation of the former, requires a contortionist denial of everything else in the song. No. It can be read both ways. And the considering the rest of the song, which is written so that it can be read in both ways, just makes this dual interpretation more likely. ---
**Author:** ![etv78](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/e/d78d45/32.png) [@etv78](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/etv78)\ **Post date:** [September 13, 2010, 10:55pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/the-oh-thats-what-the-song-is-about-thread/553486/25 "2010-09-13T22:55:30Z")
Brother explained it’s about whiskey (though this was years ago). The line,“You just sit at home masturbating.” takes on a WHOLE new interpretation! ---
**Author:** ![Apollyon](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/apollyon/32/4238_2.png) [@Apollyon](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Apollyon)\ **Post date:** [September 13, 2010, 11:15pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/the-oh-thats-what-the-song-is-about-thread/553486/26 "2010-09-13T23:15:27Z")
> [@spark240](#): > > You know Ray Davies dated [Candy Darling](http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Candy_Darling)? Interesting, no, didn’t know that. More Lola lyrics – a bit I’ve always found amusing and more ambiguity fire fuel : > [@The Kinks](#): > > I got down on my knees > Then I looked at her and she at me > > Well that’s the way that I want it to stay > And I always want it to be that way for my Lola I always want to be on my knees in front of Lola… :dubious: 😃 ---
**Author:** ![Sam\_A.Robrin](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/sam_a.robrin/32/14497_2.png) [@Sam\_A.Robrin](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Sam_A.Robrin)\ **Post date:** [September 14, 2010, 12:03am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/the-oh-thats-what-the-song-is-about-thread/553486/27 "2010-09-14T00:03:47Z")
During a cross-country trip, I heard the Monkees’ “Daydream Believer,” and suddenly realized “Oh, _she_’s not the ‘Daydream Believer,’ _he_ is!” The song still needs an extra stanza or two to bring home the point (the exception to test the rule that most written work can be improved by shortening), but at least I finally got the roles sorted out after only 12,347,262 listenings… ---
**Author:** ![RealityChuck](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/realitychuck/32/195_2.png) [@RealityChuck](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/RealityChuck)\ **Post date:** [September 14, 2010, 12:14am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/the-oh-thats-what-the-song-is-about-thread/553486/28 "2010-09-14T00:14:15Z")
> [@spark240](#): > > > [@RealityChuck](#): > > > > “It’s a mixed up muddled up shook up world – except for Lola.” Which means that Lola is an exception to “Girls will be boys, etc.” – she’s not a part of that. > > Aaarghh! :smack: > > Look, Lola’s not “mixed up,” to the protagonist, because “her” transvestism and gayness and dominance feels right to him. He’s _found his role_–“that’s the way that I want it to stay”–after being naive about his own sexuality. The line clearly indicates that she’s not part of the mixed-up world. And he wants to stay with him and Lola, transvestite or not. What makes the song great lyrically is that everything that “proves” Lola is a transvestite also disproves it. That’s great writing. > [@RealityChuck](#): > > The brilliance of the song is that it can be read both ways. > [@](#): > > The cleverness of the last line, such as it is, isn’t that it “might” mean Lola is or isn’t a man, but that it carries _both_ direct meanings; Lola _is_ a man, and also glad the protagonist is one. Reading it as only the latter, and a refutation of the former, requires a contortionist denial of everything else in the song. No, it requires listening to the lyrics with an open mind. The line “So is Lola” can have either meaning – she’s a man, or she’s glad. Because the first interpretation is the most sensational, it’s what people take from the song, but every bit of evidence in the lyrics that Lola is male is undercut by a further lyric that says otherwise. > [@](#): > > Look, I’m a huge advocate of the idea that different interpretations can be equally valid, and authorial intent need not determine rightness… but _this_ example is so crashingly direct… No, it’s brilliantly ambiguous. It’s sort of “The Lady or the Tiger” of rock songs. Because of this, you can project whatever meaning you want on the song. I happen to love ambiguity (in the box or not), so I can see both sides on the song. Other can call Lola a transvestite, and still others can make the case he’s a man. (For instance, “I never ever kissed a woman before” implies he’s kissing a woman _now_.) That’s what makes the song great. (Well, that and the way it fits into the rock opera. For the album to work dramatically, “Lola” needed to be a hit, and it was.) > [@](#): > > You know Ray Davies dated [Candy Darling](http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Candy_Darling)? No, but that’s not relevant. I think one main point was that you can’t be sure. If the singer isn’t sure of his own sexuality, why can you be sure of Lola’s? The only thing he is sure of is that he wants to be with Lola – whether she’s male or female. ---
**Author:** ![Martini\_Enfield](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/martini_enfield/32/11123_2.png) [@Martini\_Enfield](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Martini_Enfield)\ **Post date:** [September 14, 2010, 12:15am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/the-oh-thats-what-the-song-is-about-thread/553486/29 "2010-09-14T00:15:53Z")
> [@mr.jp](#): > > No. It can be read both ways. And the considering the rest of the song, which is written so that it can be read in both ways, just makes this dual interpretation more likely. _Madness_ covered the song a while back and the tone and inflection in their version pretty clearly says that Lola is actually a transvestite, IMHO. ---
**Author:** ![Doody\_Pants](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/d/839c29/32.png) [@Doody\_Pants](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Doody_Pants)\ **Post date:** [September 14, 2010, 2:58am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/the-oh-thats-what-the-song-is-about-thread/553486/30 "2010-09-14T02:58:53Z")
Mine is “Working for the Weekend” by Loverboy. I thought it was about not being able to go out and have fun because he was working all weekend. I really don’t know why I thought that since that song is played at 5 oclock every Friday evening, along with the Whistle and Take this Job and Shove It. It finally occured to me THIS YEAR that he was saying he was working toward the weekend and was so happy that TGIF he would sing about it. ---
**Author:** ![mr.jp](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/m/48db29/32.png) [@mr.jp](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/mr.jp)\ **Post date:** [September 14, 2010, 8:02am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/the-oh-thats-what-the-song-is-about-thread/553486/31 "2010-09-14T08:02:58Z")
> [@Martini\_Enfield](#): > > _Madness_ covered the song a while back and the tone and inflection in their version pretty clearly says that Lola is actually a transvestite, IMHO. I can believe that. It doesn’t change how one should view the original song, though, does it? ---
**Author:** ![Annie-Xmas](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/a/ecc23a/32.png) [@Annie-Xmas](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Annie-Xmas)\ **Post date:** [September 14, 2010, 1:20pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/the-oh-thats-what-the-song-is-about-thread/553486/32 "2010-09-14T13:20:39Z")
> [@Mahaloth](#): > > > [@Annie-Xmas](#): > > > > I only reently realized it’s about a guy losing his virginity to a prostitute.:smack: > > It is? How do you know? > > > [@Bricker](#): > > > > I always knew it was a loss of virginity song, but I never picked up on the hooker angle until seeing Jersey Boys. > > Again…it is? How do you know? What did they say? > [@lyrics](#): > > You know, I didn’t even know her name, but I was never gonna be the same. > I got a funny feeling when she walked into the room, as I recall it ended much too soon. ell, he doesn’t know her name and she ends it too soon (when the time he paid for is up) are the big clues. ---
**Author:** ![CalMeacham](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/calmeacham/32/35_2.png) [@CalMeacham](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/CalMeacham)\ **Post date:** [September 14, 2010, 2:34pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/the-oh-thats-what-the-song-is-about-thread/553486/33 "2010-09-14T14:34:54Z")
> [@](#): > > ell, he doesn’t know her name and she ends it too soon (when the time he paid for is up) are the big clues. I never assumed it was a prostitute – I just assumed the guy’s first sexual experience was an anonymous one (say at a party). Of _course_ it’s going to seem that it ended “too soon” if it was his first time. Certainly you could see it as an encounter with a prostitute, but i don’t see that the lyrics mandate it. ---
**Author:** ![astro](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/a/9dc877/32.png) [@astro](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/astro)\ **Post date:** [September 14, 2010, 3:23pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/the-oh-thats-what-the-song-is-about-thread/553486/34 "2010-09-14T15:23:04Z")
> [@kiz](#): > > > [@Bricker](#): > > > > I always knew it was a loss of virginity song, but I never picked up on the hooker angle until seeing Jersey Boys. > > I never did either. Ironically it’s one of my all-time favorite songs too :eek: What does “Jersey Boys” add to it? The lyrics can easily be ready as a random hook up or meeting. There is absolutely nothing in the lyrics by themselves indicating that a prostitute is involved or the experience is being purchased. Also what CalMeacham said. ---
**Author:** ![An\_Arky](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/a/87869e/32.png) [@An\_Arky](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/An_Arky)\ **Post date:** [September 14, 2010, 3:36pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/the-oh-thats-what-the-song-is-about-thread/553486/35 "2010-09-14T15:36:05Z")
According to [Songfacts](http://www.songfacts.com/detail.php?id=1901): > [@](#): > > According to the co-writer and longtime band member Bob Gaudio, the song was originally set in 1933 with the title “December 5th, 1933,” and celebrated the repeal of Prohibition. Neither lead singer Frankie Valli nor co-writer (and Gaudio’s wife) Judy Parker were thrilled about the lyrics - and Valli objected to parts of the melody - so Gaudio redid the words and Parker redid the melody until all were content with the finished product. It ended up being a nostalgic love song. ---
**Author:** ![Dung\_Beetle](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/dung_beetle/32/7945_2.png) [@Dung\_Beetle](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Dung_Beetle)\ **Post date:** [September 14, 2010, 3:37pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/the-oh-thats-what-the-song-is-about-thread/553486/36 "2010-09-14T15:37:29Z")
Re Captain Jack by Billy Joel > [@etv78](#): > > Brother explained it’s about whiskey (though this was years ago). The line,“You just sit at home masturbating.” takes on a WHOLE new interpretation! From the lyric “just a little push and you’ll be smiling”, I always thought he was talking about some needle drug. As far as Oh What a Night, I never thought it was a hooker either. He didn’t even know her name (at first). It ended too soon because he wished it could have gone on and on. ---
**Author:** ![woodstockbirdybird](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/woodstockbirdybird/32/7905_2.png) [@woodstockbirdybird](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/woodstockbirdybird)\ **Post date:** [September 14, 2010, 5:18pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/the-oh-thats-what-the-song-is-about-thread/553486/37 "2010-09-14T17:18:25Z")
I may be way off base, but it struck me after about the millionth listen that “All I Have To Do Is Dream” by the Everly Brothers was about masturbation. Another one that took me forever to get was “Drive” by R.E.M. A total indictment of the “alternative” rock scene at the time; the song basically said rock and roll had lost its power as a force of rebellion, and it had all become a pose. Made me appreciate the song even more. ---
**Author:** ![RTFirefly](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/r/c77e96/32.png) [@RTFirefly](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/RTFirefly)\ **Post date:** [September 14, 2010, 5:26pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/the-oh-thats-what-the-song-is-about-thread/553486/38 "2010-09-14T17:26:50Z")
> [@Sam\_A.Robrin](#): > > During a cross-country trip, I heard the Monkees’ “Daydream Believer,” and suddenly realized “Oh, _she_’s not the ‘Daydream Believer,’ _he_ is!” I always figured he wasn’t the homecoming queen - unless he’s Lola, of course. 🙂 ---
**Author:** ![RTFirefly](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/r/c77e96/32.png) [@RTFirefly](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/RTFirefly)\ **Post date:** [September 14, 2010, 5:31pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/the-oh-thats-what-the-song-is-about-thread/553486/39 "2010-09-14T17:31:23Z")
Speaking of songs about masturbation, it took me awhile to catch on that Jackson Browne’s “Rosie” is his hand: > [@](#): > > But Rosie you’re all right – you wear my ring > When you hold me tight – Rosie that’s my thing > When you turn out the light – I’ve got to hand it to me > Looks like it’s me and you again tonight, Rosie ---
**Author:** ![Jet\_Jaguar](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/jet_jaguar/32/3562_2.png) [@Jet\_Jaguar](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Jet_Jaguar)\ **Post date:** [September 14, 2010, 5:41pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/the-oh-thats-what-the-song-is-about-thread/553486/40 "2010-09-14T17:41:51Z")
I’m certain I’ve seen a quote from the guy who wrote **Lola** that Lola is definitely supposed to be a transvestite, and the song was inspired by an incident where someone (band member or manager?) spent the night in a club dancing with a transvestite but was too drunk to notice. [Previous page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/the-oh-thats-what-the-song-is-about-thread/553486.md?page=1) [Next page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/the-oh-thats-what-the-song-is-about-thread/553486.md?page=3)