# The old-fashioned "long" s **URL:** \ **Category:** About This Message Board\ **Created:** [September 12, 2000, 5:05am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/the-old-fashioned-long-s/32859 "2000-09-12T05:05:08Z")\ **Posts on this page:** 6\ **Page:** 1
**Author:** ![dougie\_monty](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/d/439d5e/32.png) [@dougie\_monty](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/dougie_monty)\ **Post date:** [September 12, 2000, 5:05am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/the-old-fashioned-long-s/32859/1 "2000-09-12T05:05:08Z")
Is there any way to produce this symbol (discussed by Cecil in the original Straight Dope book) on a computer? My sister, who took high-school biology in 1968, had a textbook which printed a 17th-Century paper on the matter of cells in cork. The last sentence of regular text before this reprint was: “The type is quaint, but once you notice that an _s_ is often much like an _f,_ you fhould have little trouble reading it.” ---
**Author:** ![UncleBeer](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/u/977dab/32.png) [@UncleBeer](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/UncleBeer)\ **Post date:** [September 12, 2000, 11:04am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/the-old-fashioned-long-s/32859/2 "2000-09-12T11:04:38Z")
**ƒ** - Is this the character you are asking for, Dougie? If so, merely hold down the **alt** key while typing **0131** and then release the **alt** key. ---
**Author:** ![C\_K\_Dexter\_Haven](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/c/b2d939/32.png) [@C\_K\_Dexter\_Haven](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/C_K_Dexter_Haven)\ **Post date:** [September 12, 2000, 1:13pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/the-old-fashioned-long-s/32859/3 "2000-09-12T13:13:10Z")
That’s actually not quite it, Uncle B. That’s just an italic “f”. The elongated s, the cross-bar only goes half-way through (that’s how you can tell it from an f). I don’t know how to do it on standard keyboard, I think you’d need special font. ---
**Author:** ![bibliophage](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/bibliophage/32/7615_2.png) [@bibliophage](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/bibliophage)\ **Post date:** [September 12, 2000, 3:05pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/the-old-fashioned-long-s/32859/4 "2000-09-12T15:05:49Z")
The symbol looks like a traditional typesetter’s italic f, but what shows up when you italicize an f on the computer is different. italic f / alt + 0131 _f_ / ƒ It appears to be essentially the same as the symbol used (in the symbol font) to indicate a mathematical function, as in y = ƒ(x). Cecil’s column is here: [http://www.straightdope.com/classics/a1\_110.html](http://www.straightdope.com/classics/a1_110.html) > [@](#): > > Throughout its history, the long s has always looked > suspiciously like the lowercase f, even to the extent of having a little nubbin vaguely reminiscent of a crossbar appended > to its middle sometimes. In my experience the long _s_ ususally has neither crossbar nor nubbin. It looks rather like the integral sign in mathematics. I can’t find a way to make a one-character integral sign on the computer though. The symbol font only has the top and bottom parts, that you have to put together on two lines. ---
**Author:** ![dougie\_monty](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/d/439d5e/32.png) [@dougie\_monty](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/dougie_monty)\ **Post date:** [September 16, 2000, 8:55pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/the-old-fashioned-long-s/32859/5 "2000-09-16T20:55:59Z")
> [@](#): > > In my experience the long s usually has neither crossbar nor nubbin. It looks rather like the integral sign in mathematics. Not necessarily, Bibliophage. I’ll go along with Cecil on this one. If you look at the original layout of the document “The Bill of Rights,” you’ll note that the line reads _“Congrefs of the United States.”_ There _is_ a cross stroke on the “long s.” ---
**Author:** ![bibliophage](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/bibliophage/32/7615_2.png) [@bibliophage](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/bibliophage)\ **Post date:** [September 16, 2000, 9:36pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/the-old-fashioned-long-s/32859/6 "2000-09-16T21:36:51Z")
You will note that Cecil said “even to the extent of having a little nubbin … **sometimes** ” [my bolding]. I said that in my experience the long “s” **usually** has neither nubbin nor crossbar. I don’t think there’s any contradiction between what he said and what I said. An example of the long “s” without a nubbin or crossbar can be seen [here](http://www.lexiconoclast.com/lexico/images/ligs.gif)