# The oldest Marx Brother: Cheeko or Chicko? **URL:** \ **Category:** Cafe Society\ **Created:** [March 19, 2017, 2:59pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/the-oldest-marx-brother-cheeko-or-chicko/782544 "2017-03-19T14:59:02Z")\ **Posts on this page:** 18\ **Page:** 3
**Author:** ![Ukulele\_Ike](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/u/df788c/32.png) [@Ukulele\_Ike](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Ukulele_Ike)\ **Post date:** [March 19, 2017, 10:16pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/the-oldest-marx-brother-cheeko-or-chicko/782544/41 "2017-03-19T22:16:27Z")
> [@Exapno\_Mapcase](#): > > The laugh’s on you. That’s my natural state. **Jack Paar (on the Tonight Show)**: So, Oscar…what do you do for exercise? **Oscar Levant:** I…stumble…and then I fall into a coma. ---
**Author:** ![Amateur\_Barbarian](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/a/59ef9b/32.png) [@Amateur\_Barbarian](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Amateur_Barbarian)\ **Post date:** [March 19, 2017, 10:24pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/the-oldest-marx-brother-cheeko-or-chicko/782544/42 "2017-03-19T22:24:24Z")
> [@drewder](#): > > cheek-o [Here is a period guy pronouncing his name.](https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ll36u9sATio) Mispronouncing, by all accounts, and he follows up by noting that Chico is “watching the chicks” in the audience. ---
**Author:** ![Exapno\_Mapcase](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/exapno_mapcase/32/1051_2.png) [@Exapno\_Mapcase](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Exapno_Mapcase)\ **Post date:** [March 19, 2017, 10:30pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/the-oldest-marx-brother-cheeko-or-chicko/782544/43 "2017-03-19T22:30:29Z")
> [@drewder](#): > > cheek-o [Here is a period guy pronouncing his name.](https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ll36u9sATio) I wonder if there was anybody at the time outside his personal circle who didn’t pronounce it Cheeko. And man does he look uncomfortable, even before Clifton Fadiman starts riding him unmercifully. “Are you still living on Groucho’s money?” “Do you want to touch the women?” The answer was yes to both, probably, since he was a gambling addict who destroyed his family and a constant womanizer that left no woman safe, but nobody ever talked that way on 50s television. ---
**Author:** ![dougie\_monty](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/d/439d5e/32.png) [@dougie\_monty](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/dougie_monty)\ **Post date:** [March 20, 2017, 12:37am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/the-oldest-marx-brother-cheeko-or-chicko/782544/44 "2017-03-20T00:37:07Z")
> [@astorian](#): > > Even though I eventually learned it was supposed to be Chicko, I still say it the wrong way. > > Just as I know baseball’s greatest shortstop was HAH-nus Wagner, but still say HOE-nus, because the correct pronunciation sounds wrong! It doesn’t matter. His real name was John Peter Wagner. ---
**Author:** ![astorian](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/a/ad7895/32.png) [@astorian](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/astorian)\ **Post date:** [March 20, 2017, 8:36am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/the-oldest-marx-brother-cheeko-or-chicko/782544/45 "2017-03-20T08:36:59Z")
> [@dougie\_monty](#): > > It doesn’t matter. His real name was John Peter Wagner. Right, but his family was German, and John in German is “Johannes.” His family called him “Hannes,” which (like Hans) is a German diminutive meaning “Johnny.” ---
**Author:** ![Sherrerd](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/sherrerd/32/8_2.png) [@Sherrerd](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Sherrerd)\ **Post date:** [March 20, 2017, 7:52pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/the-oldest-marx-brother-cheeko-or-chicko/782544/46 "2017-03-20T19:52:18Z")
> [@Exapno\_Mapcase](#): > > … You’re right that he was Chico on the movie version of _The Cocoanuts_, but that’s only because they wouldn’t use the name he had in the stage version. Which was Willie the Wop. Maybe the only time in the 1920s a slur wasn’t used. I did not know that! (I’m glad they decided against using it; yikes.) ---
**Author:** ![Czarcasm](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/czarcasm/32/4050_2.png) [@Czarcasm](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Czarcasm)\ **Post date:** [March 20, 2017, 8:26pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/the-oldest-marx-brother-cheeko-or-chicko/782544/47 "2017-03-20T20:26:38Z")
I think I know which one was “Chico”…but which one was “The Man”? ---
**Author:** ![Folacin](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/folacin/32/3195_2.png) [@Folacin](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Folacin)\ **Post date:** [March 20, 2017, 8:35pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/the-oldest-marx-brother-cheeko-or-chicko/782544/48 "2017-03-20T20:35:35Z")
> [@Trinopus](#): > > I WILL! It sounds really, really yummy! > > Cocktail sauce, and BBQ sauce, and hot mustard sauce, and… Dang, french fries are good with nearly anything! How about a nice pesto, or an alfredo? Well, are you actually tasting much potato after you slather sauce on it? Note that I’m all in favor of such slathering (although fries hot out of the oil with just salt are delicious also). I’m also generally of the opinion that mashed potatoes mostly function as a way to transport gravy to my taste buds. ---
**Author:** ![Exapno\_Mapcase](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/exapno_mapcase/32/1051_2.png) [@Exapno\_Mapcase](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Exapno_Mapcase)\ **Post date:** [March 20, 2017, 9:20pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/the-oldest-marx-brother-cheeko-or-chicko/782544/49 "2017-03-20T21:20:42Z")
You say potato, I say … whatever you call it, eat it. Potato, potato, potato. Yum. ---
**Author:** ![seal\_cleaner](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/s/e274bd/32.png) [@seal\_cleaner](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/seal_cleaner)\ **Post date:** [March 21, 2017, 2:32am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/the-oldest-marx-brother-cheeko-or-chicko/782544/50 "2017-03-21T02:32:44Z")
And what about his brother? Adolph or Arthur? ---
**Author:** ![Little\_Nemo](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/little_nemo/32/3120_2.png) [@Little\_Nemo](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Little_Nemo)\ **Post date:** [March 21, 2017, 3:29am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/the-oldest-marx-brother-cheeko-or-chicko/782544/51 "2017-03-21T03:29:25Z")
> [@Czarcasm](#): > > I think I know which one was “Chico”…but which one was “The Man”? See Post #3. ---
**Author:** ![Sherrerd](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/sherrerd/32/8_2.png) [@Sherrerd](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Sherrerd)\ **Post date:** [March 21, 2017, 4:11am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/the-oldest-marx-brother-cheeko-or-chicko/782544/52 "2017-03-21T04:11:42Z")
> [@seal\_cleaner](#): > > And what about his brother? Adolph or Arthur? Both. One until his early twenties; then the other. ---
**Author:** ![astorian](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/a/ad7895/32.png) [@astorian](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/astorian)\ **Post date:** [March 21, 2017, 12:12pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/the-oldest-marx-brother-cheeko-or-chicko/782544/53 "2017-03-21T12:12:10Z")
> [@seal\_cleaner](#): > > And what about his brother? Adolph or Arthur? It’s tricky. His given name was Adolph, prnonounced “AH-dolf.” His family called him “Addie” (pronounced “ODD-ie”). Outsiders who heard that all thought his name was “Artie” and figured his real name was Arthur. And eventually, he adopted Arthur as his name (Hitler probably made that decision easier). ---
**Author:** ![Exapno\_Mapcase](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/exapno_mapcase/32/1051_2.png) [@Exapno\_Mapcase](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Exapno_Mapcase)\ **Post date:** [March 21, 2017, 2:53pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/the-oldest-marx-brother-cheeko-or-chicko/782544/54 "2017-03-21T14:53:51Z")
> [@astorian](#): > > It’s tricky. His given name was Adolph, prnonounced “AH-dolf.” His family called him “Addie” (pronounced “ODD-ie”). > > Outsiders who heard that all thought his name was “Artie” and figured his real name was Arthur. And eventually, he adopted Arthur as his name (Hitler probably made that decision easier). He changed his name way before Hitler. Robert Bader, in his monumental _Four of the Three Musketeers_, puts the legal change in 1911, although he had been using Arthur since 1909. The family was living in Chicago then, back when the act was called the Six Mascots. There also lived in Chicago Adolph Marks, a lawyer who worked for the theater owners and sued entertainers. Every actor hated him. The different spelling of the last name wasn’t enough. For one thing, newspapers frequently misspelled Marx as Marks, and Minnie sometimes billed them as Marks in order to disguise their true identities. In either case, Adolph took pains to disassociate himself from the other Adolph. Not quite as colorful as the Hitler story, is it? Bader traces that to a 1970 article in _Variety_. As Mark Twain said, “A lie can travel halfway round the world while the truth is putting on its shoes.” Except, of course, Twain didn’t say that. It just makes for a better story. ---
**Author:** ![Amateur\_Barbarian](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/a/59ef9b/32.png) [@Amateur\_Barbarian](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Amateur_Barbarian)\ **Post date:** [March 21, 2017, 3:32pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/the-oldest-marx-brother-cheeko-or-chicko/782544/55 "2017-03-21T15:32:58Z")
> [@dougie\_monty](#): > > It doesn’t matter. His real name was John Peter Wagner. Cite for “John”? I can’t find one. As noted, he was Johannes - 'Hannes - Hon-us. ---
**Author:** ![Amateur\_Barbarian](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/a/59ef9b/32.png) [@Amateur\_Barbarian](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Amateur_Barbarian)\ **Post date:** [March 21, 2017, 3:34pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/the-oldest-marx-brother-cheeko-or-chicko/782544/56 "2017-03-21T15:34:36Z")
> [@Exapno\_Mapcase](#): > > He changed his name way before Hitler. What about Groucho’s 1950s claim the family name was “Marreck” or “Marrex” and corrupted to “Marx” on immigration? The only book I have at hand is that autobiography making the claim, and there’s no substantiation in any online source. Does Bader address that? ---
**Author:** ![Exapno\_Mapcase](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/exapno_mapcase/32/1051_2.png) [@Exapno\_Mapcase](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Exapno_Mapcase)\ **Post date:** [March 21, 2017, 6:27pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/the-oldest-marx-brother-cheeko-or-chicko/782544/57 "2017-03-21T18:27:32Z")
> [@Amateur\_Barbarian](#): > > What about Groucho’s 1950s claim the family name was “Marreck” or “Marrex” and corrupted to “Marx” on immigration? The only book I have at hand is that autobiography making the claim, and there’s no substantiation in any online source. Does Bader address that? Does he? Bader gives the genealogy not merely for every member of the Marx family on both sides, but of every person who ever lived with the Marxes. Or talked to them. Or saw one of their movies. It makes the opening chapters a bit slow. But he traces Frenchie’s family back to 1803 in Alsace and the name always was Marx. Just to put this out in public for my fellow Marxists, Bader book is one of four major Marx books to appear in the last year of so, after many years of nothing much happening. [Four of the Three Musketeers: The Marx Brothers on Stage, by Robert Bader](https://www.amazon.com/Four-Three-Musketeers-Brothers-Stage/dp/0810134160/ref=sr_1_1?ie=UTF8&qid=1490120575&sr=8-1) [The Annotated Marx Brothers: A Filmgoer’s Guide to In-Jokes, Obscure References and Sly Details, by Matthew Coniam](https://www.amazon.com/Annotated-Marx-Brothers-Jokes-References/dp/078649705X/ref=sr_1_3?ie=UTF8&qid=1490120575&sr=8-3) [That’s Me, Groucho! The Solo Career of Groucho Marx, by Matthew Coniam](https://www.amazon.com/Thats-Groucho-Solo-Career-Marx/dp/1476663734/ref=sr_1_2?s=books&ie=UTF8&qid=1490120693&sr=1-2) [Gimme a Thrill: The Story of I’ll Say She Is, The Lost Marx Brothers Musical, and How It Was Found, by Noah Diamond](https://www.amazon.com/Gimme-Thrill-Story-Brothers-Musical/dp/1593939337/ref=sr_1_4?ie=UTF8&qid=1490120575&sr=8-4) ---
**Author:** ![Amateur\_Barbarian](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/a/59ef9b/32.png) [@Amateur\_Barbarian](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Amateur_Barbarian)\ **Post date:** [March 21, 2017, 6:33pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/the-oldest-marx-brother-cheeko-or-chicko/782544/58 "2017-03-21T18:33:03Z")
> [@Exapno\_Mapcase](#): > > But he traces Frenchie’s family back to 1803 in Alsace and the name always was Marx. Groucho made up a detail? Shocking. Shocking, I tell you. Thanks. [Previous page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/the-oldest-marx-brother-cheeko-or-chicko/782544.md?page=2)