# The Oldest Name **URL:** \ **Category:** Factual Questions\ **Created:** [April 10, 2002, 8:31pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/the-oldest-name/102899 "2002-04-10T20:31:08Z")\ **Posts on this page:** 20\ **Page:** 1
**Author:** ![Cheesesteak](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/cheesesteak/32/3694_2.png) [@Cheesesteak](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Cheesesteak)\ **Post date:** [April 10, 2002, 8:31pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/the-oldest-name/102899/1 "2002-04-10T20:31:08Z")
The thread about the Scorpion King got me thinking, what is the oldest name? I’m thinking of a person historians know existed and where we can state with some certainty the name they used while living. I’m guessing it’s either an Egyptian or Chinese ruler of some sort, but history was never exactly my strong suit. ---
**Author:** ![KneadToKnow](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/kneadtoknow/32/3999_2.png) [@KneadToKnow](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/KneadToKnow)\ **Post date:** [April 10, 2002, 8:35pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/the-oldest-name/102899/2 "2002-04-10T20:35:05Z")
Og. Nice guy. Smashed stuff a lot, though. ---
**Author:** ![zev\_steinhardt](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/z/97f17d/32.png) [@zev\_steinhardt](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/zev_steinhardt)\ **Post date:** [April 10, 2002, 8:35pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/the-oldest-name/102899/3 "2002-04-10T20:35:17Z")
> [@](#): > > \*Originally posted by Cheesesteak \* > \*\*The thread about the Scorpion King got me thinking, what is the oldest name? \*\* Adam? 😃 Zev Steinhardt ---
**Author:** ![Cervaise](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/cervaise/32/16693_2.png) [@Cervaise](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Cervaise)\ **Post date:** [April 10, 2002, 8:36pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/the-oldest-name/102899/4 "2002-04-10T20:36:04Z")
**OG!** I apologize heartily; I couldn’t resist. It’s a good question, and I sincerely hope someone smarter than me comes along with a response. ---
**Author:** ![Cervaise](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/cervaise/32/16693_2.png) [@Cervaise](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Cervaise)\ **Post date:** [April 10, 2002, 8:38pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/the-oldest-name/102899/5 "2002-04-10T20:38:15Z")
Crap simulpost. Nobody else was here when I started my reply. Let me just hang the “idiot” sign around my neck now. ---
**Author:** ![jimmmy](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/j/73ab20/32.png) [@jimmmy](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/jimmmy)\ **Post date:** [April 10, 2002, 8:44pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/the-oldest-name/102899/6 "2002-04-10T20:44:26Z")
My WAG Possibly Huang Di, the Yellow Emperor, a part-real, part- legendary personage who is credited with founding the Chinese nation around 4,000 B.C? Or his wife Lei Zu &/or his enemy Cheng Yu … one of these was first maybe? This IS the SD & I’ll stand corrected & look forward to it ---
**Author:** ![altor](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/a/96bed5/32.png) [@altor](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/altor)\ **Post date:** [April 10, 2002, 9:00pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/the-oldest-name/102899/7 "2002-04-10T21:00:39Z")
I remember that the Guinness Book used to list an Egyptian king named Narmer as the oldest name. I see from googling that he united Upper and Lower Egypt around 3150 BC, but can’t confirm the oldest name bit. Any Egyptologists out there? ---
**Author:** ![capybara](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/capybara/32/202_2.png) [@capybara](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/capybara)\ **Post date:** [April 10, 2002, 10:16pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/the-oldest-name/102899/8 "2002-04-10T22:16:28Z")
Good guesses so far. I wonder how many of these early “names” are sort of colorful descriptors (but is there a difference?). We’re talking archaeologically verified, right? Even The “Huang Di” was a bit later than that-- 2600s or so (but I also know that these early guys are “traditionally known of”-- the early dynasty archaeologically verified is the Shang) That is the Huang Di of who and invented the magnet AND the wheel. . . you catch my drift. Same problem as Adam or Homer. The Huang Di that we know existed was Zhou dynasty (the guy with the clay army)-- around 220 BC. I think Narmer is a good guess-- he’s around 3000. I don’t know if his name is of the same nature as Scorpion’s-- if Nar-mer is actually just the old Egyptian for “catfish-squiggle” or whatever his glyphs represent. Maybe Scorpion does count? He’d be slightly earlier. I DO know who the first named artist/architect was-- Imhotep, designer of Saqqara. An assyrian chick named Inhedduanu is the earliest named poet. ---
**Author:** ![Silentgoldfish](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/s/e36b37/32.png) [@Silentgoldfish](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Silentgoldfish)\ **Post date:** [April 10, 2002, 11:10pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/the-oldest-name/102899/9 "2002-04-10T23:10:08Z")
> [@](#): > > \*Originally posted by KneadToKnow \* > \*\*Og. > > Nice guy. Smashed stuff a lot, though. \*\* Stop taking -g’s name in vain, heathen!!! ---
**Author:** ![Helen\_s\_Eidolon](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/h/8edcca/32.png) [@Helen\_s\_Eidolon](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Helen_s_Eidolon)\ **Post date:** [April 11, 2002, 1:03am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/the-oldest-name/102899/10 "2002-04-11T01:03:34Z")
The evidence for Scorpion we date to around 3500 BCE, while Narmer/Menes we date to just a few years later. We have fairly little evidence for the real existence of “Scorpion”, but while we have evidence that Narmer existed and united Upper and Lower Egypt, he doesn’t appear in any of the King Lists. The name that does appear in the King lists as the first uniter of the two kingdoms is Menes, who we have no other evidence for. Legend says that Scorpion started the invasion, and Narmer/Menes ended it. Make if it what you will ---
**Author:** ![Helen\_s\_Eidolon](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/h/8edcca/32.png) [@Helen\_s\_Eidolon](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Helen_s_Eidolon)\ **Post date:** [April 11, 2002, 1:06am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/the-oldest-name/102899/11 "2002-04-11T01:06:32Z")
I’m sorry, I was wrong. The traditional dating for Narmer/Menes is, indeed, around 3100 BCE. ---
**Author:** ![kniz](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/k/c37758/32.png) [@kniz](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/kniz)\ **Post date:** [April 11, 2002, 5:21am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/the-oldest-name/102899/12 "2002-04-11T05:21:55Z")
How about **Lucy**? 😉 ---
**Author:** ![Badtz\_Maru](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/b/e36b37/32.png) [@Badtz\_Maru](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Badtz_Maru)\ **Post date:** [April 11, 2002, 6:26am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/the-oldest-name/102899/13 "2002-04-11T06:26:20Z")
I was thinking that there might be some earlier Sumerian kings, but nope, earliest ones recorded are a few hundred years after Narmer. ---
**Author:** ![Badtz\_Maru](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/b/e36b37/32.png) [@Badtz\_Maru](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Badtz_Maru)\ **Post date:** [April 11, 2002, 6:27am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/the-oldest-name/102899/14 "2002-04-11T06:27:25Z")
Hey, I found a mention of a Cessair in Ireland from 3200 BC…that might be it. ---
**Author:** ![Badtz\_Maru](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/b/e36b37/32.png) [@Badtz\_Maru](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Badtz_Maru)\ **Post date:** [April 11, 2002, 6:31am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/the-oldest-name/102899/15 "2002-04-11T06:31:49Z")
And a Pharoah Sneferu from 3400 BC… [http://www.magicdragon.com/UltimateSF/timeline4KBC.html#3300-3200](http://www.magicdragon.com/UltimateSF/timeline4KBC.html#3300-3200) Not sure how accurate this is though. ---
**Author:** ![Helen\_s\_Eidolon](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/h/8edcca/32.png) [@Helen\_s\_Eidolon](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Helen_s_Eidolon)\ **Post date:** [April 11, 2002, 7:40pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/the-oldest-name/102899/16 "2002-04-11T19:40:30Z")
**Badtz** , Sneferu was definitely after Narmer. The accepted date for Sneferu’s reign is 2613 BE. ---
**Author:** ![Polycarp](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/p/82dd89/32.png) [@Polycarp](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Polycarp)\ **Post date:** [April 11, 2002, 10:09pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/the-oldest-name/102899/17 "2002-04-11T22:09:17Z")
Narmer, AKA Menes (which appears to be a Hellenization of an alternative Egyptian name for the same guy), united the Upper and Lower Kingdoms of Egypt. King Scorpion is the only historical figure known by anything other than name from prior to that unification. (But we don’t know what the scorpion hieroglyph stood for in terms of sounds.) ---
**Author:** ![Spectre\_of\_Pithecanthropus](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/spectre_of_pithecanthropus/32/12343_2.png) [@Spectre\_of\_Pithecanthropus](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Spectre_of_Pithecanthropus)\ **Post date:** [April 11, 2002, 10:14pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/the-oldest-name/102899/18 "2002-04-11T22:14:49Z")
I’ve heard of a Sumerian queen Shub-Ad, from 3500 BCE. ---
**Author:** ![Polycarp](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/p/82dd89/32.png) [@Polycarp](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Polycarp)\ **Post date:** [April 11, 2002, 10:24pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/the-oldest-name/102899/19 "2002-04-11T22:24:29Z")
As the husband of a paleoanthropologist, I refuse to be put in a position where I’m arguing with **javaman** about the oldest named human! 😃 ---
**Author:** ![Flamsterette\_X](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/f/41988e/32.png) [@Flamsterette\_X](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Flamsterette_X)\ **Post date:** [April 12, 2002, 12:14am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/the-oldest-name/102899/20 "2002-04-12T00:14:46Z")
> [@](#): > > \*Originally posted by jimmmy \* > **My WAG** What is that supposed to mean? I have no idea. and all my guesses don’t sound right to me. [Next page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/the-oldest-name/102899.md?page=2)