The One Drop Rule: How Small a Drop? Or, What Race am I?

[VarlosZ]

If people look at you and think you’re white, then you’re white (and are therefore entitled to all the privileges and immunities implied thereby). In terms of race, anything else is a red herring.

[septimus]

@Hari_Seldon

I had always heard that anyone with 1/16 black ancestry is black. Obama is clearly 1/2 (possibly a bit more, depending on his mother’s family).

Trivia note: Obama’s mother is most likely descended from the first “official” Black slave in the English colonies.

[thelurkinghorror]

So Obama is at least 50.0977% black (based on 0.5 + 2[sup]-10[/sup] if that’s what “eleventh-generation maternal grandfather” means).

[missred]

@John_Mace

I’m not sure what you are objecting to. The poster I responded to stated that you could be enslaved if you had any African ancestry under the “one drop rule”, but those laws weren’t on the books during the time of slavery. Most states prior to the 20th century defined your race as either “race of the mother” or declared you were black if you had more than 1/4, 1/8 or 1/16 African ancestry. I don’t think any states in the antebellum South had one-drop rule race laws.

One also has to differentiate between laws about race and social and cultural norms about race. Those aren’t always in sync.

I’m not objecting to anything. Just pointing out that until the late twentiethcentury, the race that you were classified had social and legal ramifications.

[John_Mace]

@missred

I’m not objecting to anything. Just pointing out that until the late twentiethcentury, the race that you were classified had social and legal ramifications.

OK. I wasn’t sure why you posted something everyone here knows, prefaced by “Perhaps so, but…” in response to my post if you weren’t disputing what I posted.

[Melbourne]

@Rodgers01

This is why Barack Obama is considered our first black president, instead of the first biracial one. … … … By the standards of American society,

Somebody has commented that BO is black because he has black skin.

So I’ll add By the standards of American society.

Barack Obama is “white” to some people here, who regard his “blackness” as saying more about the USA than it does about his “race”

In Aus, Barack Obama is considered black because he is identified as black by the media sourced from the USA. If it wasn’t for that, his status would be more ambiguous: anyone who was polite would allow him to self identify, the left would claim him as black, the right would name him as white, the unaligned would regard him as biracial.

[aruvqan]

Something else.

What color do you want to be? Hell, fap to your hearts content and tell people you are turning japanese for all I care:D

I classify myself as race - human, subspecies - American Mongrel, gender - female If pushed I will grudgingly consent to calling myself white/caucasion if I can not pick refuse to answer for whatever reason.

[usedtobe]

I think only LA (the State) had the insane “One Drop” rule. Most (this was a Slave State thing - if you were black, you belonged to somebody and had damned well better get back before the Law finds you.) had the 1/32 rule.

Yes, if you look white, you are white; I hope Obama, as a parting shot says something about his White Mother and the One Drop rule - as I understand it, he is exactly 50/50 - father pure African, mother pure European. Calling him black makes no more sense than calling him white, but we have the “pollution” concept of “black blood”.

[jtur88]

I consider Barack Obama to be our 44th white president. Genetically, he is as much white as black., and furthermore, he was raised as a child in a white home by a white family.

[DingoelGringo]

@Rodgers01

My brother did one of those genetic tests that tells you where your ancestors lived 500 years ago, before mass intercontinental travel. One thing he found is that we have sub-Saharan African ancestry; I don’t know what percentage.

This was no big surprise: although we’re mostly white, parts of my dad’s family have been in the American south for a long time and I’d have been surprised if I didn’t have some black relatives. (For the same reason I was quite surprised that the test showed no Native American ancestry whatsoever!)

Now that it’s scientifically confirmed, though, it got me thinking about how race is lived in American society, and specifically about the “one-drop rule.” For those who aren’t familiar, this is the “rule” that anyone with any African ancestry at all is black. You could be as light-skinned as a Norwegian, but if you have one black great-grandparent, you’re black. This is why Barack Obama is considered our first black president, instead of the first biracial one. I’m not claiming it makes sense; this is just historically the way things have been.

I look pretty unambiguously white. My dad does too, though he and some members of his family have somewhat duskier complexions than you might expect from people who are otherwise of pretty purely British stock. My sister does too…maybe I do as well, I don’t know. Still, at a glance you wouldn’t think twice about categorizing any of us as white - though, of course, the same thing could be said about Rashida Jones!

So what do you think? By the standards of American society, what race am I? Poll to come.

Bonus question: the test also turned up some unexpected Spanish and Jewish ancestry. I have no idea where those came in. Does the one-drop rule apply to those as well? I know that religiously you are only Jewish if it comes down the maternal line; don’t know if that’s the case here.

Race? If you aren’t of the human race what the Hell are you doing posting on this board? When enrolling my kids in school every year I’d go thru this fight. I’m of German stock and they are too, but I’d mark other and write in “human.” I have a cousin who decided to see how much Jewishness he had in him since his mother came from Russia as a “Russian Jew” He got the DNA results back saying he was more Neanderthal than Hebraic.

[Learjeff]

@Suburban_Plankton

Maybe I’m hopelessly naive, but I thought that Barack Obama was considered our first black president because of the color of his skin.

There are “white” Spaniards and Italians with darker skin than Obama. He also has facial features we associate with sub-Saharan Africans. But most importantly, he identifies himself as Black, so … he’s Black. In South Africa during apartheid, he’d have been considered “colored”, not “black”.

@VarlosZ

If people look at you and think you’re white, then you’re white (and are therefore entitled to all the privileges and immunities implied thereby). In terms of race, anything else is a red herring.

I think that’s the most important definition, in the US today. It’s the one that really affects people’s lives.

@missred

I’m not objecting to anything. Just pointing out that until the late twentiethcentury, the race that you were classified had social and legal ramifications.

It still has social ramifications, of course.

In any case, the ‘one drop’ rule developed in the late 1800’s and early 1900’s, but hasn’t had any significance in over half a century, to anyone other than blatant bigots. The Wikipedia page has a lot of interesting info about the rule.

The truth is, we all have African genes, because all humanity originated in Africa. There is more genetic diversity in sub-Saharan Africa than in all the other “races”. “Black” is not a race, as it would lump Africans with Australian Aborigines, who are more genetically distinct from Africans than are Europeans or Asians.

(The thing about diversity is expected. Likewise, ignoring modern impacts, the languages of Polynesians, Melanesians, and Micronesians, from Madegascar to Easter Island, have less diversity than the languages of the small region from which they originated, in Taiwan. It’s a fairly simple artifact of a relatively small ancestral population and the speed at which novelties accumulate, compared to the amount of time that the unconstricted source population had to accumulate variation.)

[Learjeff]

BTW, consider trying a number of those mail-in ancestry tests. My understanding is that you get quite a wide variety of conflicting results.

[MeanOldLady]

@Rodgers01

Now that it’s scientifically confirmed, though, it got me thinking about how race is lived in American society, and specifically about the “one-drop rule.” For those who aren’t familiar, this is the “rule” that anyone with any African ancestry at all is black. You could be as light-skinned as a Norwegian, but if you have one black great-grandparent, you’re black. This is why Barack Obama is considered our first black president, instead of the first biracial one.

This section needs some major revisions.

I look pretty unambiguously white. My dad does too, though he and some members of his family have somewhat duskier complexions than you might expect from people who are otherwise of pretty purely British stock. My sister does too…maybe I do as well, I don’t know. Still, at a glance you wouldn’t think twice about categorizing any of us as white - though, of course, the same thing could be said about Rashida Jones!

Rashida Jones looks “unambiguously white” to you?

@John_Mace

If you look white, and no one knows you have African ancestry, you’re white.

If you look white, and everyone knows you have African ancestry, you’re black.

If you looked like you have African ancestry, you’re black.

If you look you might have African ancestry, then you’re probably going to be looked at suspiciously if you claim to be white even if people aren’t certain whether or not you have African ancestry.

Yes. Or more succinctly, what Varlos said:

@VarlosZ

If people look at you and think you’re white, then you’re white (and are therefore entitled to all the privileges and immunities implied thereby).

@jtur88

I consider Barack Obama to be our 44th white president. Genetically, he is as much white as black., and furthermore, he was raised as a child in a white home by a white family.

Is this a joke? If not, it is irritatingly stupid, and is the kind of thing that has me completely resigned from attempting to discuss race anymore.

Gotta stop opening threads like this.

[Mangetout]

Humans keep trying to compartmentalise continua. It never bloody works.

[kaylasdad99]

@MeanOldLady

This section needs some major revisions.

Rashida Jones looks “unambiguously white” to you?

She looks unambiguously luscious to me.

[John_Mace]

@usedtobe

I think only LA (the State) had the insane “One Drop” rule. Most (this was a Slave State thing - if you were black, you belonged to somebody and had damned well better get back before the Law finds you.) had the 1/32 rule.

Everything you posted there is wrong. Did you read any of this thread before posting?

The “one-drop rule”, as law, was not adopted by any state until the early 20th century. Before that, various states had different definitions, typically 1/4 or 1/8.

[Napier]

“By the standards of American society” is a little vague and has some considerable leeway, but I think if you and your family and the people who know your family considered your family white, you are on the white side of any reasonable interpretation.

[usedtobe]

I give up trying to find the definitions by state (One Drop was TN and VA). MS is 1/8.
It’s worse than you think, according to The Harvard Crimson

Believe it or not, according to that article, it is still possible to commit miscegenation in a roughly 20 states (not all are slave states).

[Acsenray]

@Rodgers01

My brother did one of those genetic tests that tells you where your ancestors lived 500 years ago, before mass intercontinental travel. One thing he found is that we have sub-Saharan African ancestry; I don’t know what percentage.

This question might be somewhat difficult to answer, because 500 years ago is just about when the American notion of race was first being developed. I suppose that by 1850, your one black African ancestor from the early 1500s would run you afoul of the “one-drop rule” depending on the specific wording of the law of the state you were in, whether you admitted to it, and whether you could pass for white.

[John_Mace]

@usedtobe

I give up trying to find the definitions by state (One Drop was TN and VA). MS is 1/8.
It’s worse than you think, according to The Harvard Crimson

Believe it or not, according to that article, it is still possible to commit miscegenation in a roughly 20 states (not all are slave states).

“Miscegenation” just means sex (or marriage) between people of different races. It’s possible to “commit” that anywhere in the US. There may be a few states that have laws against it, but those laws would be voided.

@Acsenray

This question might be somewhat difficult to answer, because 500 years ago is just about when the American notion of race was first being developed. I suppose that by 1850, your one black African ancestor from the early 1500s would run you afoul of the “one-drop rule” depending on the specific wording of the law of the state you were in, whether you admitted to it, and whether you could pass for white.

No, you wouldn’t. It’s already been posted at least 3 times in this thread that THERE WERE NO “ONE DROP RULE” LAWS IN THE US UNTIL THE EARLY 20TH CENTURY. I don’t know why people keep posting that there were such laws in the 19th century. THere weren’t.