# The One-State Solution **URL:** \ **Category:** Great Debates\ **Created:** [January 23, 2009, 3:13pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/the-one-state-solution/482641 "2009-01-23T15:13:26Z")\ **Posts on this page:** 20\ **Page:** 6
**Author:** ![mswas](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/m/e99b99/32.png) [@mswas](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/mswas)\ **Post date:** [January 23, 2009, 10:06pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/the-one-state-solution/482641/101 "2009-01-23T22:06:31Z")
> [@Maeglin](#): > > Perhaps you can tell me what “Anglo-Saxon culture” means today. I am somewhat well acquainted with history, **so you do not even have to use small words**. Apparently someone does. ---
**Author:** ![Maeglin](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/m/8baadc/32.png) [@Maeglin](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Maeglin)\ **Post date:** [January 23, 2009, 10:07pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/the-one-state-solution/482641/102 "2009-01-23T22:07:24Z")
> [@foolsguinea](#): > > :facepalm: > > So, no to having read American history then. You’re simply wrong. It was true at one point that the majority of the colonists were of English extraction. This is not even remotely true now. So I ask again, suppose the USA were not a nation-state. Would it pass your test? Yes, we sided with England in two world wars. The English also cheerfully burned our capital nearly 200 years ago. We speak English, yes, but English is as widely spoken in India as it is here. In fact, it is often the only language Indians from different parts of the country share in common. Yes, we have inherited an English legal tradition. Who, it must be noted, borrowed enormously from Roman jurisprudence. Hell, the Romans had a republic, too! Our culture is obviously old republican Roman. ---
**Author:** ![clairobscur](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/c/839c29/32.png) [@clairobscur](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/clairobscur)\ **Post date:** [January 23, 2009, 10:10pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/the-one-state-solution/482641/103 "2009-01-23T22:10:47Z")
> [@foolsguinea](#): > > We may as well insist that the Gypsies are just like everyone else & that we can take Egypt & give it to them. That would be India. ---
**Author:** ![foolsguinea](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/foolsguinea/32/14751_2.png) [@foolsguinea](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/foolsguinea)\ **Post date:** [January 23, 2009, 10:18pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/the-one-state-solution/482641/104 "2009-01-23T22:18:49Z")
> [@Sam\_Stone](#): > > …are we saying that the ONLY just solution to this problem is to give Palestinians full right of return, and make one big nation-state called Palestine with Palestinians having full voting rights? > > If so, you can take it off the table. It will never happen. The Israelis would be cutting their own throats. Why is the “int’l community” **saying that the ONLY just solution to this problem is to give Palestinians full** sovereignty, **and make** an additional **nation-state called Palestine with Palestinians having full voting rights** and control over their own territory\*\*? If so, you can take it off the table. It will never happen. The Israelis would be cutting their own throats.\*\* A two-state solution has the same problem as a one-state solution. But a two-state solution means we can keep The Other in the ghetto where we can hate them across a fence. Woo-hoo. :rolleyes: ---
**Author:** ![clairobscur](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/c/839c29/32.png) [@clairobscur](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/clairobscur)\ **Post date:** [January 23, 2009, 10:21pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/the-one-state-solution/482641/105 "2009-01-23T22:21:36Z")
> [@mswas](#): > > Yes, we cannot reorder the world based upon the idea of prior victimization. Should we give back most of France’s wealth to the Templars? How would we find them? Maybe you could come up with an analogy that makes sense. Or at least, when you use an analogy that doesn’t make sense, not replace it with an analogy that makes even less sense. Or at the very least avoid to point out why it doesn’t make sense in your own post. Where could we possibly find the Palestinians, indeed…I wonder…:rolleyes: ---
**Author:** ![foolsguinea](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/foolsguinea/32/14751_2.png) [@foolsguinea](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/foolsguinea)\ **Post date:** [January 23, 2009, 10:24pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/the-one-state-solution/482641/106 "2009-01-23T22:24:25Z")
> [@clairobscur](#): > > That would be India. Well, since they’re the Rom, I think it would have to be Rome. Or Romagna. Or Romania. Right? 😛 In any case, it would be daft. ---
**Author:** ![clairobscur](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/c/839c29/32.png) [@clairobscur](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/clairobscur)\ **Post date:** [January 23, 2009, 10:26pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/the-one-state-solution/482641/107 "2009-01-23T22:26:21Z")
> [@FinnAgain](#): > > This is a false dichotomy. Many people, myself included, support compensation for what was taken from the Jews. I wasn’t addressing you, but someone who stated basically that the seizure of Palestinian property was too old an affair to bother about. ETA : and regarding not returning the exact same thing that was taken away, I’m not aware of Israel having offered any kind of compensation. ---
**Author:** ![Paul\_in\_Qatar](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/p/ccd318/32.png) [@Paul\_in\_Qatar](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Paul_in_Qatar)\ **Post date:** [January 23, 2009, 10:27pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/the-one-state-solution/482641/108 "2009-01-23T22:27:20Z")
ignore this one ---
**Author:** ![FinnAgain](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/finnagain/32/12500_2.png) [@FinnAgain](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/FinnAgain)\ **Post date:** [January 23, 2009, 10:38pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/the-one-state-solution/482641/109 "2009-01-23T22:38:47Z")
> [@clairobscur](#): > > ETA : and regarding not returning the exact same thing that was taken away, I’m not aware of Israel having offered any kind of compensation. My apologies on the first point, shoul’ve realized you were responding to only one person instead of the general idea. And I’m happy to [give you some data.](http://www.ynetnews.com/articles/0,7340,L-3382162,00.html) > [@](#): > > Saudi Arabia, the United States, and Israel have recently held secret talks to formulate a new diplomatic-financial initiative aimed at resolving the Palestinian refugee problem, by offering compensation to those willing to stay in their countries of residence. > > The negotiations were led by senior American officials, and included Saudi secretary-general of the National Security Council, Prince Bandar Bin Sultan, the Saudi ambassador to Washington, and top Israeli officials. > > According to the new initiative, refugees who agreed to remain in their countries of residence would receive financial compensation. Those who insisted on realizing the right of return would only be allowed to return to the Palestinian territories. Their return would be coordinated with the Palestinian Authority, in order to prevent a flood of refugees, and severe economic problems. > > At the same time, Saudi Arabia, the United Arab Emirates, and the US would finance projects to improve the refugees’ quality of life and create more jobs for them. The ambitious plan requires billions of dollars in funding. So financial compensation to those who aren’t planning to return to PA territory, and investment in PA territory for those who do return. Of course, previous negotiations have generally kept the status/compensation of refugees and their descendants for the Final Status phase. ---
**Author:** ![Captain\_Amazing](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/c/6de8d8/32.png) [@Captain\_Amazing](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Captain_Amazing)\ **Post date:** [January 23, 2009, 10:41pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/the-one-state-solution/482641/110 "2009-01-23T22:41:59Z")
> [@foolsguinea](#): > > A two-state solution has the same problem as a one-state solution. > > But a two-state solution means we can keep The Other in the ghetto where we can hate them across a fence. Woo-hoo. :rolleyes: Well, no, ideally, with a two state solution, the Palestinian state wouldn’t be a ghetto, but an independent state with full sovereignty. So the Palestinian right to self governance would be respected in a Palestinian state. At the same time, the Israeli right to self government would still be respected in an Israeli state. That’s the idea behind the two state solution. ---
**Author:** ![foolsguinea](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/foolsguinea/32/14751_2.png) [@foolsguinea](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/foolsguinea)\ **Post date:** [January 23, 2009, 10:46pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/the-one-state-solution/482641/111 "2009-01-23T22:46:55Z")
> [@Captain\_Amazing](#): > > Well, no, ideally, with a two state solution, the Palestinian state wouldn’t be a ghetto, but an independent state with full sovereignty. So the Palestinian right to self governance would be respected in a Palestinian state. At the same time, the Israeli right to self government would still be respected in an Israeli state. That’s the idea behind the two state solution. It’s a pipe dream. Within one year of the two-state solution, Israel asserts control over Palestine’s borders in the interest of Israeli security. ---
**Author:** ![FinnAgain](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/finnagain/32/12500_2.png) [@FinnAgain](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/FinnAgain)\ **Post date:** [January 23, 2009, 10:48pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/the-one-state-solution/482641/112 "2009-01-23T22:48:11Z")
If there was already peace and security with the PA being willing and able to crack down on any terrorist Palestinians, why would any such thing happen? ---
**Author:** ![Captain\_Amazing](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/c/6de8d8/32.png) [@Captain\_Amazing](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Captain_Amazing)\ **Post date:** [January 23, 2009, 11:16pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/the-one-state-solution/482641/113 "2009-01-23T23:16:57Z")
> [@FinnAgain](#): > > If there was already peace and security with the PA being willing and able to crack down on any terrorist Palestinians, why would any such thing happen? And, you’d see fewer terrorist Palestinians for the PA to have to crack down on, because Israel would be out of there as an irritant to the Palestinians. ---
**Author:** ![mswas](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/m/e99b99/32.png) [@mswas](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/mswas)\ **Post date:** [January 23, 2009, 11:23pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/the-one-state-solution/482641/114 "2009-01-23T23:23:40Z")
> [@clairobscur](#): > > Maybe you could come up with an analogy that makes sense. Or at least, when you use an analogy that doesn’t make sense, not replace it with an analogy that makes even less sense. Or at the very least avoid to point out why it doesn’t make sense in your own post. > > Where could we possibly find the Palestinians, indeed…I wonder…:rolleyes: Ok so establish what the expiration date on reparations is and then we can discuss it. Otherwise you’re just asking to trade one humanitarian crisis for another. ---
**Author:** ![clairobscur](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/c/839c29/32.png) [@clairobscur](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/clairobscur)\ **Post date:** [January 23, 2009, 11:41pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/the-one-state-solution/482641/115 "2009-01-23T23:41:41Z")
> [@Malthus](#): > > The problem with restitution is that, presumably, it has to be _fair_ - that is, apply equally to Jew Then petition whatever government would be responsible for their hardships. I doesn’t absolve Israel of its responsibility. > [@](#): > > The (seldom acknowledged) fact is that the refugee problem in the Middle East went both ways - approximately equal numbers of Jews fled from other ME lands to Israel, as Palestinians fled the other way. 1. Are the Palestinians responsible for it? If I rob you, am I entitled to say that I’ve been robbed by someone else, so I’m not going to give you anything back? 2. Generally speaking, this confusion Israel= Jews and Palestinians=Arabs irritates me. If, say, a Libyan Jew has been deprived of property, this particular Jew is owed something. Israel isn’t owed anything, even if it let this person in. And similarly a Palestinian doesn’t have a debt because an Arab state seized Jewish property. 3. As for an approximatively equal numbers of Jews having left Arab countries : that’s true. Now, we both know in what conditions Palestinians became refugees. But when you wrote this statement, did you know in what circumstances Jews who left Arab states during the 50s did so? Or did you just assume they had been driven out and deprived of property, hence that the situation was equivalent? I personally don’t know. Do you know without looking it up? The majority of them were coming from former French colonies, and a very large number specifically from Morocco. Are you sure Jews emigrated in large numbers from Morocco under duress, were denied the right to return, lost property? Again, I don’t know. Do you? Something like 150 000 came from Algeria. They were French citizens. Again, was their situation comparable to that of Palestinian refugees? Almost 100 000 came from Turkey. Were Jews oppressed in Turkey during the 50s? Did they lose property? Another large contingent came from Irak. Same questions. Only if you total all of those you can come up with equivalent numbers for Jews who emigrated to Israel. So, can you tell me with a straight face that when you pointed at this equivalence, you actually knew that the situation of those various populations were roughly equivalent with the situation of Palestinian refugees? 4) If reparations owed to Palestinians are somehow cancelled out by reparations owed to Jews who left or fled Arab countries, should I assume that Palestinians can also legitimately be asked to pay money to the USA, Spain, France or Italy because those countries also let in Jews coming from the same places at the same time? If not, why not? The situation is the same. > [@](#): > > The Jews of course became Israeli citizens; it is these people who, in part, will be expected to pay compensation to Palestinians … yet can expect none themselves for _their_ dispossession. As Israeli citizens, yes, they’ll be expected to pay for them. A new immigrant to the USA who becomes a citizen has to pay for the US national debt even if it were incurred before he immigrated. And if they were themselves dispossessed (again, are you sure they were?) in Morocco or Iraq, it’s not to the Palestinians to foot the bill. > [@](#): > > Now, it is to be acknowledged that the Mizrahim living in Israel do not necessarily _require_ compensation to the degree that Palestinians living in refugee camps do - Indeed. And it’s not exactly a minor point. The situation of the Palestinians refugees and their descendants isn’t exactly similar to the situation of the people who immigrated to Israel and their children. I’m sure that a Palestinian currently living in a suburban house in Montreal is significantly less bothered by Grandpa’s former potato field in Israel than his cousin living with said Grandpa in a refugee camp in Lebanon. > [@](#): > > and why is that? Because of course their fellow-Arabs, while expressing all sorts of sympathy for their plight, are utterly unwilling to allow them to live as citizens in their countries. And what about non-Arabs, for a change? Tons of people are seemingly bothered by the Palestinians’ plight. Why aren’t we willing to allow them to live as citizens in our countries, exactly? ---
**Author:** ![clairobscur](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/c/839c29/32.png) [@clairobscur](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/clairobscur)\ **Post date:** [January 24, 2009, 12:16am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/the-one-state-solution/482641/116 "2009-01-24T00:16:45Z")
> [@FinnAgain](#): > > So financial compensation to those who aren’t planning to return to PA territory, and investment in PA territory for those who do return. > Of course, previous negotiations have generally kept the status/compensation of refugees and their descendants for the Final Status phase. And why, exactly? Shouldn’t 80 yo who’ve been deprived of property receive indemnities as soon as possible rather than during an hypothetical “Final status phase”? And indeed, I note that it’s a new initiative, currently tinkered, that might or might not end up being actually proposed. It would be about time, don’t you think? It doesn’t contradict my statement about Israel not having offered anything yet. Also, I note that it would a financial incentive for staying in their countries of residence (and what do said “countries of residence” think of it, by the way? Are they expected to grant citizenship to the refugees?). Not indemnities for losses incurred, with apologies for the theft on top of that. That’s a significant difference. And why should Palestinians currently living in Palestine, or willing to return to Palestine be excluded, exactly? Again, it shows this isn’t in any way a compensation. It’s, indeed, an incentive for them to stay wherever they are. ---
**Author:** ![Malthus](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/m/85f322/32.png) [@Malthus](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Malthus)\ **Post date:** [January 24, 2009, 12:29am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/the-one-state-solution/482641/117 "2009-01-24T00:29:08Z")
> [@clairobscur](#): > > Then petition whatever government would be responsible for their hardships. I doesn’t absolve Israel of its responsibility. The fact that such “petitions” have zero chance of success should factor into it, however. The problem is this: that apparently only _one_ party is being held up for responsibility. That’s hardly just. It is the equivalent of saying “sure, we only bust Blacks for drug possession in this country. But they are still guilty of it, aren’t they?” > [@](#): > > 1. Are the Palestinians responsible for it? If I rob you, am I entitled to say that I’ve been robbed by someone else, so I’m not going to give you anything back? The Palestinians are not responsible for it - the ME countries who did the ejecting are. They claim all sorts of sympathy for the plight of Palestinians. Why do they not, say, take the lands and goods they seized from Jews and give them to Palestinians? Everyone would be happy. More simply - accept them as citizens and move on. This is the pattern set by countless other situations where people have been displaced by war - India/Pakistan, Greece/Turkey, Germany/Eastern Europe, etc. The situation of the Palestinains is unique, and uniquely bad. > [@](#): > > 1. Generally speaking, this confusion Israel= Jews and Palestinians=Arabs irritates me. If, say, a Libyan Jew has been deprived of property, this particular Jew is owed something. Israel isn’t owed anything, even if it let this person in. And similarly a Palestinian doesn’t have a debt because an Arab state seized Jewish property. I’m not saying they do. The problem is that, practically speaking, all of the individual rights and wrongs of history will never be solved, and it is unfair to push hard to compensate only some people and not others. Also, it is not correct that there was no commonality between various Arab governments and the Palestinian cause: > [@](#): > > Was there any coordination between Arab governments in the expulsions of the Middle Eastern and North African Jews? > > A.Yes. The New York Times reported on May 16, 1948 on a series of measures taken by the Arab League to marginalize and persecute the Jewish residents of Arab League member states. The Times article reported on a > > “text of a law drafted by the Political Committee of the Arab League which was intended to govern the legal status of Jewish residents of Arab League countries. It provides that beginning on an unspecified date all Jews except citizens of non-Arab states, would be considered ‘members of the Jewish minority state of Palestine.’ Their bank accounts would be frozen and used to finance resistance to ‘Zionist ambitions in Palestine.’ Jews believed to be active Zionists would be interned and their assets confiscated.” > > The Times article further reported the following: > > “Already in some Moslem states such as Syria and Lebanon there is a tendency to regard all Jews as Zionist agents and ‘fifth columnists.’ There have been violent incidents with feeling running high. There are indications that the stage is being set for a tragedy of incalculable proportions.” > > "In Syria a policy of economic discrimination is in effect against Jews. ‘Virtually all’ Jewish civil servants in the employ of the Syrian Government have been discharged. Freedom of movement has been ‘practically abolished.’ Special frontier posts have been established to control movements of Jews. > > "In Iraq no Jew is permitted to leave the country unless he deposits £5,000 ($20,000) with the Government to guarantee his return. No foreign Jew is allowed to enter Iraq even in transit. > > "In Lebanon Jews have been forced to contribute financially to the fight against the United Nations partition resolution on Palestine. Acts of violence agaisnt Jews are openly admitted by the press, which accuses Jews of ‘poisoning wells,’ etc. > > “Conditions vary in the Moslem countries. They are worst in Yemen and Afghanistan, whence many Jews have fled in terror to India. Conditions in most of the countries have deteriorated in recent months, this being particularly true of Lebanon, Iran and Egypt. In the countries farther west along the Mediterranean coast conditions are not so bad. It is feared, however that if a full-scale war breaks out, the repercussions will be grave for Jews all the way from Casablanca to Karachi.” > > The Times article also makes references to > > “statements made by Arab spokesmen during the General Assembly session last autumn, to the effect that if the partition resolution was put into effect, they would not be able to guarantee the safety of the Jews in any Arab land.” > > The following exceprt from “Why Jews Fled the Arab Countries,” by Ya’akov Meron, in The Middle East Quarterly, September 1995 (for the full article, click here) explores the nature of these statements made by the Egyptian, Palestinian and Iraqi delegates to the U.N. during the debate on the partition resolution. > > In a key address before the Political Committee of the U.N. General Assembly on November 14, 1947, just five days before that body voted on the partition plan for Palestine, Heykal Pasha, an Egyptian delegate, made the following key statement in connection with that plan: > > The United Nations . . . should not lose sight of the fact that the proposed solution might endanger a million Jews living in the Moslem countries. Partition of Palestine might create in those countries an anti-Semitism even more difficult to root out than the anti-Semitism which the Allies were trying to eradicate in Germany. . . If the United Nations decides to partition Palestine, it might be responsible for the massacre of a large number of Jews. > > Heykal Pasha then elaborated on his threat: > > A million Jews live in peace in Egypt [and other Muslim countries] and enjoy all rights of citizenship. They have no desire to emigrate to Palestine. However, if a Jewish State were established, nobody could prevent disorders. Riots would break out in Palestine, would spread through all the Arab states and might lead to a war between two races.[5] > > Heykal Pasha’s thinly veiled threats of “grave disorders,” “massacre,” “riots,” and “war between two races” did not at the time go unnoticed by Jews;[6] for them, it had the same ring as the proposition made six years earlier by the Palestinian leader Hajj Amin al-Husayni to Hitler of a “final solution” for the Jews of Arab countries, including Palestine (see above). But the statement appears to have made no lasting impression, to the point that a historian of the Jews in Egypt has described Heykal Pasha as “a well-known liberal.”[7] > > Particularly noteworthy is that although Heykal Pasha spoke at the United Nations in his capacity as a representative of Egypt, he continuously mentioned the Jews “in other Muslim countries” and “all the Arab states,” suggesting a level of coordination among the Arab governments. Indeed, four days after his statement, Iraq’s Foreign Minister Fadil Jamali declared at the United Nations that “interreligious prejudice and hatred” would bring about a great deterioration in the Arab-Jewish relationship in Iraq and in the Arab world at large,[8] thereby reinforcing the impression that Heykal Pasha was talking not just on behalf of Egypt but for all the independent Arab states. Further confirmation came several days later, after the General Assembly had decided in favor of partitioning Palestine, when, “following orders issued by the Arab League,”[9] Muslims engaged in outrages against Jews living in Aden and Aleppo.[10] > > Another indication that Arab rulers coordinated the expulsion of Jews from their terrorites comes from a Beirut meeting one and a half years later of senior diplomats from all the Arab States. By this time, March 1949, the Arab states had already lost the first Arab-Israeli war; they now used this defeat to justify an expulsion that had been officially proclaimed before the war even began. As reported in a Syrian newspaper, “If Israel should oppose the return of the Arab refugees to their homes, the Arab governments will expel the Jews living in their countries.”[11] > > According to Walid Khalidi, perhaps the leading Palestinian nationalist historian and a highly reputable source, “The (Palestinian) Arabs held their ground throughout the period from November 1947 to March 1948. Up to March 1, not one single Arab village had been vacated by its inhabitants, and the number of people leaving the mixed towns was insignificant.”[12] The mass departure from Palestine of 590,000 Arabs began only in April 1948; yet , Heykal Pasha had publicly and very formally announced a program to expel Jews from Arab countries fully five months earlier. [http://www.jimena.org/faq.htm#3](http://www.jimena.org/faq.htm#3) > [@](#): > > 1. As for an approximatively equal numbers of Jews having left Arab countries : that’s true. Now, we both know in what conditions Palestinians became refugees. But when you wrote this statement, did you know in what circumstances Jews who left Arab states during the 50s did so? Or did you just assume they had been driven out and deprived of property, hence that the situation was equivalent? I personally don’t know. Do you know without looking it up? > > The majority of them were coming from former French colonies, and a very large number specifically from Morocco. Are you sure Jews emigrated in large numbers from Morocco under duress, were denied the right to return, lost property? Again, I don’t know. Do you? Something like 150 000 came from Algeria. They were French citizens. Again, was their situation comparable to that of Palestinian refugees? Almost 100 000 came from Turkey. Were Jews oppressed in Turkey during the 50s? Did they lose property? Another large contingent came from Irak. Same questions. You are asking for a lot of research. Wikipedia, while of course not fully reliable, has a country-by-country breakdown: > **[Jewish exodus from the Muslim world](https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Jewish_exodus_from_Arab_lands)** > > Approximately 900,000 Jews migrated, fled, or were expelled from Muslim-majority countries throughout Africa and Asia in the 20th century, primarily as a consequence of the establishment of the State of Israel. Large-scale migrations were also organized, sponsored, and facilitated by Zionist organizations such as Mossad LeAliyah Bet, the Jewish Agency, and the Hebrew Immigrant Aid Society. The mass movement mainly transpired from 1948 to the early 1970s, with one final exodus of Iranian Jews... This article contains some details: > **[The Shocking Proof the Exodus Happened | Aish](https://aish.com/jewishissues/middleeast/The_Middle_Easts_Forgotten_Refugees.asp)** > > Is the Exodus a myth or is archaeology quietly confirming it detail by detail? Rabbi Rowe examines the evidence. > [@](#): > > In a two-day period in 1941, Arab mobs went on a rampage in Baghdad and Basra murdering, raping and pillaging these cities’ Jewish communities. Nearly 200 Jews were slaughtered, more than 2000 injured; some 900 Jewish homes were destroyed and looted, as were hundreds of Jewish-owned shops. > > My father was a survivor of the carnage. He hid in a hole dug in the ground to save his life. He saw Iraqi soldiers pull small children away from their parents and rip the arms off young girls to steal their bracelets. He saw pregnant women being raped and their stomachs cut open. > > Around the Region > > Britain eventually regained control, and el-Husseini and other Palestinian nationalists fled to Berlin where they became honored guests of the Nazi state. Hitler told a grateful el-Husseini that “Germany’s only remaining objective in the [Middle East] would be limited to the annihilation of the Jews living under British protection in Arab lands.” > > Later, in a speech over Radio Berlin’s Arabic Service, el-Husseini voiced support for the Nazis’ “Final Solution” and became the first Arab leader to call openly for the expulsion of Jews from Arab lands – some eight years before there was a single Palestinian refugee. > > Even though Hitler lost the war, el-Husseini’s call was heeded. In 1948 Iraq rounded up and imprisoned hundreds of Jews. Others were removed from their jobs in the civil service, business licenses of Jews were revoked, and quotas were placed on Jewish high school and college students. Later, discriminatory restrictions were imposed on Jewish travel abroad and the buying or selling of property. Thus, even if Jews wanted to escape Iraq, they could not do so legally and they could not liquidate their assets. > > The Iraqi parliament stripped Iraqi Jews of their citizenship, and then passed another law confiscating all Jewish property. > > In 1950 the Iraqi parliament passed a law called “Ordinance for the Cancellation of Iraqi Nationality for Jews, Law No. 1” that stripped Iraqi Jews of their citizenship. In 1951 the Iraqi parliament passed another law, confiscating all Jewish property. Within a year most of Iraq’s ancient Jewish population – my family included – fled to Israel. > > Elsewhere in the Arab world, Jews faced similar circumstances. In Libya in 1945 nearly 100 Jews were massacred. In 1948 the Jewish communities of Aden and Algeria were rocked by a series of massacres that left hundreds dead and many more injured. Anti-Jewish discriminatory laws were passed in other Arab countries. Within a decade the exodus of Jews from Arab countries was almost complete, with most going to Israel. All of this was conducted under the guise of law by Arab governments. This forced the flight of Jews out of lands where we had lived for thousands of years before the Arab-Islamic conquests. More: [Jewish Refugees of the Israeli-Palestinian Conflict](http://www.mideastweb.org/refugees4.htm) > [@](#): > > Only if you total all of those you can come up with equivalent numbers for Jews who emigrated to Israel. So, can you tell me with a straight face that when you pointed at this equivalence, you actually knew that the situation of those various populations were roughly equivalent with the situation of Palestinian refugees? Actually, the situation for the Jews was _worse_, in some cases. And yes, I already knew it. > [@](#): > > 1. If reparations owed to Palestinians are somehow cancelled out by reparations owed to Jews who left or fled Arab countries, should I assume that Palestinians can also legitimately be asked to pay money to the USA, Spain, France or Italy because those countries also let in Jews coming from the same places at the same time? If not, why not? The situation is the same. Don’t understand your point. The issue is not that one somehow cancells out the other, but that justice demands equal treatment for both - demanding justice for only one group and not the other is not, well, just. > [@](#): > > As Israeli citizens, yes, they’ll be expected to pay for them. A new immigrant to the USA who becomes a citizen has to pay for the US national debt even if it were incurred before he immigrated. > > And if they were themselves dispossessed (again, are you sure they were?) in Morocco or Iraq, it’s not to the Palestinians to foot the bill. Where are you getting the notion that Palestinians should foot the bill? > [@](#): > > Indeed. And it’s not exactly a minor point. The situation of the Palestinians refugees and their descendants isn’t exactly similar to the situation of the people who immigrated to Israel and their children. I’m sure that a Palestinian currently living in a suburban house in Montreal is significantly less bothered by Grandpa’s former potato field in Israel than his cousin living with said Grandpa in a refugee camp in Lebanon. And why then is it Israel’s fault that they continue to sit in refugee camps in Lebanon? Isn’t that the fault of the Lebanese? > [@](#): > > And what about non-Arabs, for a change? Tons of people are seemingly bothered by the Palestinians’ plight. Why aren’t we willing to allow them to live as citizens in our countries, exactly? In some cases, we are. There have been numerous attempts to resettle Palestinian refugees: > **[Palestinian Refugees, unlike other refugees in the world, were denied...](http://www.eretzyisroel.org/~peters/resettlement.html)** My country Canada for example was willing to take in Palestinian refugees. The Palestinian leadership nixed that plan, burning our Minister in effigy for even offering: > [@](#): > > January 17, 2001 > Reuters > Palestinians burned an effigy of Canadian Foreign Minister John Manley on Thursday in a protest against Canada’s offer to accept Palestinian refugees as part of a Middle East peace plan. Hooded gunmen fired into the air during the protest in Balata refugee camp near the West Bank town of Nablus and hundreds of demonstrators shouted slogans demanding the right of return to former homes. “We refuse resettlement of refugees,” they shouted. > > Manley told the Toronto Star newspaper in an interview published on January 10, “We are prepared to receive refugees. We are prepared to contribute to an international fund to assist with resettlement in support of a peace agreement.” Manley said there had been no discussion on the number of refugees to be resettled outside the Middle East. > > Canada heads the multilateral Refugee Working Group, a committee charged with trying to resolve the plight of Palestinian refugees. ---
**Author:** ![clairobscur](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/c/839c29/32.png) [@clairobscur](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/clairobscur)\ **Post date:** [January 24, 2009, 12:30am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/the-one-state-solution/482641/118 "2009-01-24T00:30:43Z")
> [@mswas](#): > > Ok so establish what the expiration date on reparations is and then we can discuss it. That’s a very interesting question, and I actually asked it on the SDMB once long ago, but it didn’t raise much interest. That said, you dismissed the concept that the refugees had a right to reparations by making silly comparisons with the knights templar. So, I ask _you_ the question, again : does it apply too to all people who were victimized before 1950? Or is it a special rule that applies only to Palestinians? ---
**Author:** ![Honesty](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/h/f04885/32.png) [@Honesty](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Honesty)\ **Post date:** [January 24, 2009, 12:48am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/the-one-state-solution/482641/119 "2009-01-24T00:48:06Z")
I think its an excellent idea. Israel might as well absorb these territories as a means to reduce the low-scale humanatarian crisis that occurs on today. If these areas were apart of Israel, then the government would be compelled to provide basic infrastructure and aid to all of the citizens regardless of ethnicity, religion, or color. The idea that Israel would be “suiciding” by agreeing to a One-State solution is absurd. Israel touts itself as a shining becon of democracy a geographical location darkened by monarchies and despots. It’s either a democracy or its not. I suspect, however, that Israel does think of itself as a democracy - a \*Jewish democracy \*- which really translates to an ethnocentric theocracy. ---
**Author:** ![mswas](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/m/e99b99/32.png) [@mswas](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/mswas)\ **Post date:** [January 24, 2009, 1:07am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/the-one-state-solution/482641/120 "2009-01-24T01:07:00Z")
> [@clairobscur](#): > > That’s a very interesting question, and I actually asked it on the SDMB once long ago, but it didn’t raise much interest. > > That said, you dismissed the concept that the refugees had a right to reparations by making silly comparisons with the knights templar. So, I ask _you_ the question, again : does it apply too to all people who were victimized before 1950? Or is it a special rule that applies only to Palestinians? All people who were victimized beyond living memory. Basically the problem is you’d have to displace Jews to place the Palestinians, then you’d have to displace Germans to place the Jews, and what would you do with the Germans? Should the Americans pay for reparations since it was our design that repatriated Germans within Germany? [Previous page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/the-one-state-solution/482641.md?page=5) [Next page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/the-one-state-solution/482641.md?page=7)