# The Ongoing Death of Free Speech: Prominent ACLU Lawyer Cheers Suppression of a New Book **URL:** \ **Category:** Great Debates\ **Created:** [November 18, 2020, 8:46pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/the-ongoing-death-of-free-speech-prominent-aclu-lawyer-cheers-suppression-of-a-new-book/925913 "2020-11-18T20:46:52Z")\ **Posts on this page:** 1\ **Showing post:** 496
**Author:** ![iiandyiiii](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/iiandyiiii/32/7924_2.png) [@iiandyiiii](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/iiandyiiii)\ **Post date:** [November 25, 2020, 5:27pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/the-ongoing-death-of-free-speech-prominent-aclu-lawyer-cheers-suppression-of-a-new-book/925913/496 "2020-11-25T17:27:24Z")
> [@DemonTree](#): > > I don’t think that will work, since men and women have almost entirely the same genes. Rather, the presence or absence of the SRY gene dictates whether and how they are expressed. A lot of this will be through the influence of testosterone, especially prenatally - which is also something that has been researched. So show how testosterone affects these things, scientifically. Let’s see the data. Not suppositions, but actual data. This won’t be easy – how does one measure inherent interest, or inherent ability, separated from cultural and societal influence, in STEM fields? Since it’s not easy, people shouldn’t make such claims without this actual data. Making a hypothesis is fine with me. But claiming that this is so, without evidence? Fuck those people. That doesn’t mean “these people are the scum of the Earth and aren’t worth the dirt on my shoe”. That means “these people made a really dumb mistake and should feel bad and ashamed about that mistake”. Fuck those people until they realize the dumb things they’re saying and doing. And telling them this to their face is part of the process. I’ve seen it work in person. Hell, it’s worked on me. > [@](#): > > And alternative theories can be tested, too. That’s what some of those studies I linked to did. If patriarchal values and teachings are the cause, then more egalitarian countries should have more women in STEM jobs; they found the opposite. How is “egalitarian” measured? Maybe their laws are more egalitarian. But what about their culture and society? What are the little girls and little boys taught, both directly and indirectly? > [@](#): > > I don’t expect to convince you. One may as well try to convince a creationist of the reality of evolution. Two people on this board, IIRC, have compared me to a creationist. You, and a guy who insisted that black people are inherently genetically inferior in intelligence. Because I said the same thing to him that I’m saying to you – there’s no evidence for the claims you’re making, and making these sorts of claims without real and very strong evidence is bigoted. This isn’t in a vacuum – this is in a society with tons of direct and indirect, visible and invisible, in your face and behind your back, white supremacism, misogyny, and more. We should be very careful with these claims. This isn’t talking about which populations have a greater tendency towards freckles. This is about the very sort of claims that have been used to justify slavery, rape, and genocide. > [@](#): > > But I am very disturbed that you think supporting one side of this debate deserves social opprobrium, because you don’t like the conclusions it may lead to. This is the problem I have with the left. I think making such claims without good evidence deserves social opprobrium. Supporting the “blacks are dumber” side deserves social opprobrium. Supporting the “women are inferior at STEM” side deserves social opprobrium. Even if one dresses it up in flowery, science-y sounding language. There’s no actual evidence for either claim. --- _[View the full topic](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/the-ongoing-death-of-free-speech-prominent-aclu-lawyer-cheers-suppression-of-a-new-book/925913)._